So now 800k baht AND insurance?

[DrJack54]

46 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I don't think loads of people do it. Some maybe. You learn what your immigration office requires. And everybody doesn't stay out in the sticks. 

Most of your posts are spot on. This is not one. If I was married I would use retirement reason. Esp when money no problem. 

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Rules have been changing/adjusted for several years in an (half-hearted) attempt to stop various abuses of the system. I think, if too many people use the 'SETV/VE to non O conversion' in an attempt to bypass the O-A insurance requirements then that SETV/VE option will be severely restricted.

They can count me as one of those.  While I don't mind some sort of insurance requirement, the current Thai method and plans are horrible.  I have and will continue to have fine medical insurance in the USA.  And I have and will continue to have travel accident insurance for anything that crops up.  If I need long term care or some elective or highly recommended care, then I would fly back to the USA.

[Blue bruce]

And people are wondering why the op asked why they are leaving Thailand. More rules brought on by a military government. More money for Thai insurance providers.

[saengd]

10 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The paperwork is the same every year and you learn what the immigration office requires. And everybody doesn't stay out in the sticks. What's the problem getting the wife involved? If you read the posts here at TVF, what are people whining about the most? Money! 

Just because some of us prefer not to use the marriage visa and we have sufficient wealth not to need to to use one, doesn't make us stupid! It's not a matter of form filling, it's not a matter of not wanting to involve the spouse, it's personal choice that suits (or doesn't) individual preferences and circumstances.

[john terry1001]

14 hours ago, Max69xl said:

I don't think someone who are married to a Thai would apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement,unless he is stupid. 

A lot of people were encouraged to apply for retirement extensions because they were quick to complete (mostly the same or next day) and a lot less work for the IO while marriage extensions involved a lot work for them and took about a month to complete. A few years ago some offices, such as Si Racha, actually refused to do marriage extensions if the applicant financially qualified for a retirement extension.

 

From the many posts and comments you make on here, it appears that you are only aware of the process involved that covers more recent years, say less than 8-10 years ago and are not aware of what was normal procedure for some of us that have lived (or even visited consistently) in Thailand for many years more than that. 

[CrossBones]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:58 PM, ubonjoe said:

You may to get this certificate for your insurance from the provider of it.

 https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

The thing about that certificate how could they prove its if fake. An overseas insurance company would not be allowed to divulge any details to them anyway and neither deny or confirm you are their customer

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

PLUS, all subsequent extensions based on retirement would also need a valid insurance policy.

I thought it was only for the first extension, quite specifically mentioned.

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, CrossBones said:

The thing about that certificate how could they prove its if fake. An overseas insurance company would not be allowed to divulge any details to them anyway and neither deny or confirm you are their customer

You're a bit paranoid,aren't you? Why wouldn't a serious insurance company give you a certificate if you need one? 

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I thought it was only for the first extension, quite specifically mentioned.

He's wrong, it's not about all retirement extensions. Just the O-A.

[Max69xl]

18 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Not correct according to the replies Tanoshi received directly from Immigration.

 

They basically said If you obtained and used an O-A visa before 31st October you wouldn't need insurance, either for that visa or for for any subsequent extensions based on retirement obtained as a result of that 0-A visa... BUT ..... if you obtained the O-A visa after 31st October it must be accompanied by an Insurance policy, PLUS, all subsequent extensions based on retirement would also need a valid insurance policy.

 

 

 

It's not for "all retirement extensions based on retirement", just the O-A. Why is it so hard to understand? The police report is quite clear about that.

[john terry1001]

20 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

He's wrong, it's not about all retirement extensions. Just the O-A.

I don't think I'm wrong.

 

Firstly, I read section 6 of the police order as saying ' anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa.

 

So, after entering with an O-A visa when getting an extension based on retirement you have continued your length of stay in the KINGDOM and could well be required to continue with the insurance until you physically exit Thailand, not when the O-A visa expires.

 

Which appears to be confirmed by what Tanoshi was told.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by john terry1001

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Firstly, I read section 6 of the police order as saying ' anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa.

You are misquoting what it says.

 

[BertM]

30 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

I don't think I'm wrong.

 

Firstly, I read section 6 of the police order as saying ' anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa.

 

So, after entering with an O-A visa when getting an extension based on retirement you have continued your length of stay in the KINGDOM and could well be required to continue with the insurance until you physically exit Thailand, not when the O-A visa expires.

 

Which appears to be confirmed by what Tanoshi was told.

 

Maybe what Max69xl (see below) was referring to when he said "all retirement extensions" was extensions for those who previously had Non O visas. In that case he is correct... I am not sure about extensions for those who previously had O-A visas before Oct 31. Only time will tell... in the next few months we should start hearing first-hand accounts whether it applies to extensions for those who previously had O-A visas before Oct 31.  

30 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

36 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

He's wrong, it's not about all retirement extensions. Just the O-A.

 

[john terry1001]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You are misquoting what it says.

 

I did just type out the information instead of cut/pasting the section as you have but I don't think I am misquoting. It is referring to visa class O-A, section 6 and:

 

It clearly says "must buy Thai health insurance

online, which covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM"

 

Now you might have a different interpretation for that section than I have but it definitely does NOT say 'for the length of validity of the O-A visa' anywhere in that section.

 

The information Tanoshi obtained from Immigration, both in Bangkok and his local office, I believe, is a lot closer to what I have said.

 

You may well be right and I might be totally wrong but, until we get an official definitive answer it's down purely speculation and opinion. Nothing more. 

 

We are all entitled to our opinions and I did not misquote as you have said, I used the exact wording that is written in The Police Order.

Edited October 16, 2019 by john terry1001

[john terry1001]

8 minutes ago, BertM said:

 

After all the threads and posts over the last few days, I don't believe Max69xl, who has posted so regularly could believe we were talking about retirement extensions that originated from a non O visa, especially as he was replying to my quote on the police order.

 

I believe he is separating the O-A visa from the subsequent retirement extension you would apply for and suggesting the insurance only applies to the visa.

 

Maybe Max69xl would clarify.

[BertM]

Only time will tell... in next few months, we should start seeing actual first-hand reports on whether it applies to extensions for those who had (pre-Oct 31) O-A visas when those people go for their extensions. It will take more than a year from now to learn if insurance will be required for extensions for the new O-A visas (post-Oct 31) when those people start going for their extensions in Nov 2020. Let's hope for the best for everyone's sake...

Edited October 16, 2019 by BertM

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

He's wrong, it's not about all retirement extensions. Just the O-A.

Yes, accepted. But my response was limiting it to the first extension on an O-A permission  and only that , as read from @Tanoshi post 147. 

 

[alan grice]

Bahamas dont make it easy either. Good Idea imo????


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[john terry1001]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

But my response was limiting it to the first extension on an O-A permission  and only that , as read from @Tanoshi post 147. 

I understand where you're coming from, regarding the wording. Only Tanoshi can say exactly what was said and only the IO's can give their individual interpretation of the police order (unless they are all issued with the same tick box 'idiot chart' to work with of course ????). 

 

But for me, if as the Tanoshi post is suggesting, Immigration are going to all the trouble of requiring insurance for the validity of the O-A visa issued after 31st October and the first year's extension then, in my opinion, it would be totally illogical to then say all future extensions would not require insurance.

 

We already have different interpretations on the actual police order. Only time will tell. Either:

 

Insurance is required for O-A visas obtained after 31st October plus all subsequent extensions obtained from that O-A visa where the sequence isn't broken

 

OR

 

Tanoshi's questions could have been totally misunderstood and insurance is only required for the O-A visa and not required for any subsequent extensions.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

After all the threads and posts over the last few days, I don't believe Max69xl, who has posted so regularly could believe we were talking about retirement extensions that originated from a non O visa, especially as he was replying to my quote on the police order.

 

I believe he is separating the O-A visa from the subsequent retirement extension you would apply for and suggesting the insurance only applies to the visa.

 

Maybe Max69xl would clarify.

Yes, I don't agree with the terminology "every retirement extension", when it's ONLY about the O-A Visa. 

[john terry1001]

34 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Yes, I don't agree with the terminology "every retirement extension", when it's ONLY about the O-A Visa

I have never suggested insurances would be required for any extensions based on non O visas. Whenever I have mentioned retirement extensions on this thread I thought I had always indicated I was talking about retirement extensions applied for on the back of an expiring O-A visa. Sorry if there's any confusion.

 

Are you suggesting though, that insurance for future retirement extensions based on O-A visas issued after 31st October will not be required ............. despite Tanoshi's post referring to Immigration comments that states the opposite? 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by john terry1001

[Sheryl]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:58 PM, RichardColeman said:

I get this feeling that only Thai insurers will be acceptable in the future , to ensure that no farang company can withhold payment

 

With both Thai and foreign insurers, hospital will not provide care without receipt of a Guarantee of Payment.

 

It can sometimes take a bit longer with a foreign insurer due to time zone differences but really depends. Some foreign insurers are quicker to respond than local companies.

 

Many foreign insurers have well established direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals. Some even have offices here in Thailand.

 

 

 

[Genericnic]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

With both Thai and foreign insurers, hospital will not provide care without receipt of a Guarantee of Payment.

 

It can sometimes take a bit longer with a foreign insurer due to time zone differences but really depends. Some foreign insurers are quicker to respond than local companies.

 

Many foreign insurers have well established direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals. Some even have offices here in Thailand.

 

 

 

Definitely true. I have dealt with both Chiang Mai RAM and Bangkok Hospital Chiang Mai and they both require letters of guarantee from my foreign insurer. The international insurance desk at Bangkok Hospital told me that they required the same from Thai insurance providers. 

 

As an aside, I had a major procedure done a Bangkok Hospital about 5 weeks ago. Total cost about 600k baht. My carrier's website shows claims filed and this claim had not been appearing. I went to the billing section at the hospital last week and they had not even filed the claim yet. I was amused. Maybe hospitals are not so desperate for money as they claim. ????

 

David

Edited October 16, 2019 by Genericnic

[Max69xl]

49 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

With both Thai and foreign insurers, hospital will not provide care without receipt of a Guarantee of Payment.

 

It can sometimes take a bit longer with a foreign insurer due to time zone differences but really depends. Some foreign insurers are quicker to respond than local companies.

 

Many foreign insurers have well established direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals. Some even have offices here in Thailand.

 

 

 

There are more problems with Thai insurance companies concerning paying hospital bills,than with foreign. And every foreign insurance covers more. On top of that, who came up with the 40k for OPD? That's totally crazy. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Max69xl

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

With both Thai and foreign insurers, hospital will not provide care without receipt of a Guarantee of Payment.

 

It can sometimes take a bit longer with a foreign insurer due to time zone differences but really depends. Some foreign insurers are quicker to respond than local companies.

 

Many foreign insurers have well established direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals. Some even have offices here in Thailand.

 

 

 

Every major company in Europe have call centers which are open 24/7. 

[Genericnic]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:21 PM, Genericnic said:

So folks, I just drafted the following letter to the RTE in Washington. In addition to the question about insurance, I asked a couple of other question which you can ignore if you like. Hopefully I will get some clarification from them in a few days. I will update you if and when I get a response.

 

David

 

Dear Officer:

I am currently living in Thailand and have been here approximately 8.5 years. I originally came on an O-A (retirement) visa and have continued to stay based on extensions of permission to stay. My current permission to stay expires on 25 Dec 2019. Because of an upcoming trip to the US for the holidays, I will not be in Thailand during the time I would normally extend the permission to stay and for that reason I will have to apply for a new O-A visa. In order to do that properly, I must ask your assistance to clarify some questions about the application process this time. 

1. I am in Thailand at the moment. Can I get the required medical certificate from my current personal doctor here in Chiang Mai or do I need to get it filled out by a doctor in the U.S.?

2. SinceI have been living in Thailand for the past 8.5 years, do I need a police clearance from the U.S or from Thailand? I have only visited the U.S. for about 2 months total over the past 8.5 years.

3. It is my understanding that as of 31 October 2019 medical insurance in the amount of at least 40,000 baht for outpatient services and at least 400,000 baht for inpatient services will be required for an O-A (retirement) visa application. My current insurance is provided by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas as part of my retirement package from the State of Texas. With the exception of small amounts for a deductible and co-insurance, I have unlimited coverage for both inpatient and outpatient care. The coverage has no expiration date. My question is will that insurance coverage be sufficient to meet the requirements and if so, what documentation would I need to submit with the application?

Thank you for your time and assistance.

I am surprised but I actually received a reply from the RTE in Washington, DC. If you are going to be getting an O-A visa there, here are the answers they provided.

 

David

 

 

1. I am in Thailand at the moment. Can I get the required medical certificate from my current personal doctor here in Chiang Mai or do I need to get it filled out by a doctor in the U.S.?
- The doctor in Chiang Mai could sign the form as well.

 

This is good because this will cost me about 500 baht rather than the US$100+ that it would cost to get the form done in the US. 

2. Since I have been living in Thailand for the past 8.5 years, do I need a police clearance from the U.S or from Thailand? I have only visited the U.S. for about 2 months total over the past 8.5 years.
-  Criminal record must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only.

 

Relatively easy in the US. Local police check is probably US$25 or less.

3. It is my understanding that as of 31 October 2019 medical insurance in the amount of at least 40,000 baht for outpatient services and at least 400,000 baht for inpatient services will be required for an O-A (retirement) visa application. My current insurance is provided by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas as part of my retirement package from the State of Texas. With the exception of small amounts for a deductible and co-insurance, I have unlimited coverage for both inpatient and outpatient care. The coverage has no expiration date. My question is will that insurance coverage be sufficient to meet the requirements and if so, what documentation would I need to submit with the application?  
- Please check no.8 below for insurance information

This one has a little twist to it. I knew about the Foreign Insurance Certificate since that has been mentioned everywhere. What is new - at least the first time I have seen it - is the requirement of the original health insurance policy. 

 

8. U.S. or Thai health insurance plan. Coverage requirements for outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 baths and inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 baths.

  -  in case of submitting U.S. health insurance :

1. original “Foreign Insurance Certificate” which certified by insurance company (Download)        2. original health insurance policy (we do not accept copies)

   - in case of submitting Thai health insurance :

              1. the applicant must purchase health insurance plan online via Thai General Insurance Association’s website    http://longstay.tgia.org/

              2. Submit an insurance evidence issued by insurance companies

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Genericnic said:

IThis one has a little twist to it. I knew about the Foreign Insurance Certificate since that has been mentioned everywhere. What is new - at least the first time I have seen it - is the requirement of the original health insurance policy. 

 

8. U.S. or Thai health insurance plan. Coverage requirements for outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 baths and inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 baths.

  -  in case of submitting U.S. health insurance :

1. original “Foreign Insurance Certificate” which certified by insurance company (Download)        2. original health insurance policy (we do not accept copies)

   - in case of submitting Thai health insurance :

              1. the applicant must purchase health insurance plan online via Thai General Insurance Association’s website    http://longstay.tgia.org/

              2. Submit an insurance evidence issued by insurance companies

"Original health insurance policy (we do not accept copies)."  Well, I know civilian insurance companies produce such policies statements but if a person has excellent insurance like say from a government agency (like Tricare for retired US military) there is no policy statement other than a letter you can download at anytime date with current date which just basically says you are covered/enrolled.  Coverage amounts will not be specified in the letter as coverage is basically unlimited for inpatient, outpatient, meds, etc.    

 

The Thai govt is making this as hard a possible....steering everyone towards a specific group of Thai insurance companies for very expensive policies that provide limited coverage.