Turkish-led forces advance into Syrian border town, fighting rages

[rooster59]

Turkish-led forces advance into Syrian border town, fighting rages

By Orhan Coskun and Tom Perry

 

An explosion is seen over the Syrian town of Ras al-Ain as seen from the Turkish border town of Ceylanpinar, Sanliurfa province, Turkey, October 12, 2019. REUTERS/Stoyan Nenov

 

ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkish-backed Syrian rebels advanced into the border town of Ras al Ain in northeast Syria on Saturday but it was unclear how far, with Turkey saying it had taken the town centre, and Kurdish-led forces denying that and saying they were counter-attacking.

 

Turkey pursued its four-day-old, cross-border offensive against a Syrian Kurdish militia despite an outcry from the United States and European Union and warnings of possible sanctions unless Ankara called off its attack.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump's administration said Turkey's incursion was causing "great harm" in relations with its NATO ally. Other NATO allies Germany and France said they were banning weapons exports to Turkey. The head of the Arab League denounced the operation and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson spoke to Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan to express his "grave concern" about the offensive.

 

Ankara began its onslaught against the YPG militia, which it says is a terrorist group backing Kurdish rebels in Turkey, after Trump withdrew some U.S. troops there to support Kurdish forces in the fight against Islamic State.

 

The assault has raised international alarm over its mass displacement of civilians and the possibility of Islamic State militants escaping from Kurdish prisons leading to a revival of the jihadist group's insurgency in Syria.

 

The Kurdish-led administration in Syria's northeast said nearly 200,000 people had been uprooted so far by the fighting, while the U.N. World Food Programme said more than 100,000 had left Ras al Ain and the town of Tel Abyad.

 

Turkey's stated objective is to set up a "safe zone" inside Syria to resettle many of the 3.6 million Syrian war refugees it has been hosting. Erdogan has threatened to send them to Europe if the EU does not back his assault.

 

Turkish officials posted photos on Saturday showing deserted streets and Turkish-backed Syrian rebels standing on Kurdish militia flags in Ras al Ain.

 

"The (Syrian rebel) National Army took control of (Ras al Ain) town centre this morning," a senior Turkish security official said, referring to Ankara-backed rebels. "Inspections are being conducted in residential areas. Mine and booby trap searches are being carried out."

 

Marvan Qamishlo, a spokesman for the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), in which the YPG comprises the main fighting element, said they had carried out only a "tactical retreat" in Ras al Ain in response to hours of heavy Turkish bombardment.

 

"Now the SDF's attack has started and there are very fierce clashes," Qamishlo told Reuters. "The clashes are continuing in the industrial district," the part of Ras al Ain closest to the border.

 

Speaking as night fell Mustafa Bali, head of the SDF media office, said the SDF remained in control inside Ras al Ain.

 

The senior Turkish official said "nearly all" YPG forces had fled south from Ras al Ain. Turkish artillery continued to shell parts of the town, a Reuters reporter said.

 

The SDF holds most of the northern Syrian territory that once made up Islamic State's "caliphate" in the country, and has been keeping thousands of fighters from the jihadist group in jail and tens of thousands of their family members in camps.

 

The SDF accused Turkey-backed rebel fighters of killing a Kurdish politician in a road ambush on Saturday. The rebel force denied it, saying it had not advanced that far.

 

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based organisation which reports on the war, said Turkey-backed groups had killed nine civilians on the road, including Hervin Khalaf, co-chair of the secular Future Syria Party.

 

TURKEY SEEKS 'SAFE ZONE'

 

In the latest international censure of Turkey's incursion, Arab League Secretary General Ahmed Aboul Gheit called it an "invasion of an Arab state's land and an aggression on its sovereignty".

 

Iraq, the current president of the League, said the offensive "will exacerbate humanitarian crises, increase the suffering of the Syrian people and strengthen the ability of terrorists to reorganise their remnants."

 

Turkey dismissed the criticism, saying Syrian Arabs had been the biggest victims of the YPG, which it said had driven hundreds of thousands from their homes in areas it controls.

 

The foreign ministry said that by accusing Turkey, rather than a "terrorist organisation that threatens the territorial integrity of Syria", the League was betraying the Arab world.

 

Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu also dismissed an offer by Trump to mediate between Ankara and Kurdish YPG forces. "We don't mediate, negotiate with terrorists," he told German broadcaster Deutsche Welle. "The only thing to be done is for these terrorists to lay down arms."

 

NO GERMAN OR FRENCH WEAPONS

 

Germany and France halted arms exports to Turkey that could be used by Turkish forces in Syria.

 

The French foreign and defence ministries said in a joint statement that European Union foreign ministers would coordinate their position on Monday at a meeting in Luxembourg.

 

Erdogan has dismissed mounting international condemnation of the operation and said on Friday evening that Turkey "will not stop it, no matter what anyone says".

 

The Turkish-backed National Army said earlier they had cut a road linking Ras al Ain and Tel Abyad, the two main targets of Ankara's offensive, and had captured 18 villages since the operation began.

 

Seventy-four Kurdish-led fighters, 49 Turkey-backed Syrian rebels and 30 civilians have been killed in the fighting, according to the Observatory.

 

In Turkey, 18 civilians have been killed in cross-border bombardment, Turkish media and officials say. They included eight people in a mortar and rocket attack on the border town of Nusaybin, the local governor's office said.

 

Turkey said 459 YPG militants had been "neutralised" since the operation began, a term that commonly means killed.

 

FEARS OF ISLAMIC STATE REVIVAL

 

Overnight a car bomb exploded outside a prison in Hasaka in northeast Syria, causing serious damage but no casualties, a statement from security forces in the region said. It did not say if any Islamic State prisoners there had escaped.

 

The SDF's Qamishlo said the attack was carried out by IS sleeper cells and another senior SDF official said the Turkish assault had given new life to the jihadist group.

 

"The Turkish invasion is no longer threatening the revival of Daesh (Islamic State), rather it has revived it and activated its cells in Qamishli and Hasaka and all the other areas," SDF official Redur Xelil said, noting car bombs in each of the cities in the last day.

 

He said the SDF was now fighting on two fronts - continuing to cooperate with the U.S.-led coalition against Islamic State while also confronting the Turkish armed forces.

 

In its first big attack since the assault began, IS claimed responsibility for a deadly car bomb on Friday in Qamishli, the largest city in the Kurdish-held area.

 

Five IS militants fled a jail there, and foreign women from the group being held in a camp torched tents and attacked guards with sticks and stones, the SDF said.

 

(Reporting by Orhan Coskun in Ankara and Tom Perry, Daren Butler in Beirut, Omar Fahmy in Cairo, Reuters correspondents in the region; Writing by Grant McCool; Editing by Mark Heinrich, Frances Kerry and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-13

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[Tug]

So heart breaking and so unessary those are our allies beeing killed with their families just a token force of Americans was stopping this slaughter Donald trump you have blood on your hands you are a disgrace to the nation 

[steven100]

Trump has all but abandoned his support for the kurds in Syria.

He use to support them as did the Obama administration as they were against the Assad regime and they were using chemicals and murdering the innocent. 

Now it seems the US don't care what Turkey or Assad's murderous regime do.

 

A sad sad failed region both Turkey & Syria.  

[tgw]

a whole new generation learns what it means to be allied with the USA.

[OneMoreFarang]

And Trump and his supporters don't know and/or don't care. MAGA, yeah, sure.

 

Trump should finish that wall around the USA and make sure no American is ever allowed out of it. Then the rest of the world can live happily ever after.

[TopDeadSenter]

23 minutes ago, tgw said:

a whole new generation learns what it means to be allied with the USA.

Truly bizarre. The only problem was having a warmonger as POTUS. The US under Obama had no reason, I repeat, no reason whatsoever, to get militarily involved in a foreign nation halfway around the world. That the withdrawal is problematic is something Mr Nobel award winner should have considered before sending in the drones and missiles.

 But yes, hopefully a whole new generation can learn that to send the US military to invade sovereign nations on the other side of the world is a bad idea. Blood will be spilled, and there will be unforeseen consequences. 

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Trump should finish that wall around the USA and make sure no American is ever allowed out of it. Then the rest of the world can live happily ever after.

That is a very simplistic view, surely i am not a supporter of US involvement in the politics of sovereign nations, but to think that all evil comes from America is wrong.

There were bloody conflicts before America, and there always will be, it's just in the human nature.

[ChrisY1]

Throwing the Kurdish allies under the bus is a cold, uncalled for and cowardly step from Trump....that he has the power in the US to allow a slaughter of the Kurds is unbelievable in the world today....he's most definitely on par with Erdogan !

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truly bizarre. The only problem was having a warmonger as POTUS. The US under Obama had no reason, I repeat, no reason whatsoever, to get militarily involved in a foreign nation halfway around the world. That the withdrawal is problematic is something Mr Nobel award winner should have considered before sending in the drones and missiles.

 But yes, hopefully a whole new generation can learn that to send the US military to invade sovereign nations on the other side of the world is a bad idea. Blood will be spilled, and there will be unforeseen consequences. 

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

Good to know you were a fierce opponent of Trump's war on Isis.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Trump should finish that wall around the USA and make sure no American is ever allowed out of it. Then the rest of the world can live happily ever after.

That is a very simplistic view, surely i am not a supporter of US involvement in the politics of sovereign nations, but to think that all evil comes from America is wrong.

There were bloody conflicts before America, and there always will be, it's just in the human nature.

Obviously it is simplistic - and totally unrealistic.

But maybe that allows Trump supporters to understand it. ???? 

[OneMoreFarang]

46 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

Throwing the Kurdish allies under the bus is a cold, uncalled for and cowardly step from Trump....that he has the power in the US to allow a slaughter of the Kurds is unbelievable in the world today....he's most definitely on par with Erdogan !

I guess the difference is that Erdogan knows what he is doing and he does it on purpose.

Trump is ignorant and just does not care about anybody who is not a Trump supporter.

[Thomas J]

The Turks have been persecuting the Kurds for decades.  Obama got the USA into this mess by sending troops into Syria hoping to destabilize yet another country laying it open for the Muslim brotherhood.  The Kurds were 'ALLIES' to the USA only so long as they were fighting with the USA against a common enemy.  As soon as that enemy ISIS was vanquished they reverted to hating the USA.   As for the other countries condemning Trump and the deaths of the Kurds, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  Or is it only the USA that is suppose to expend its blood and treasure around the world. 

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

The Turks have been persecuting the Kurds for decades.  Obama got the USA into this mess by sending troops into Syria hoping to destabilize yet another country laying it open for the Muslim brotherhood.  The Kurds were 'ALLIES' to the USA only so long as they were fighting with the USA against a common enemy.  As soon as that enemy ISIS was vanquished they reverted to hating the USA.   As for the other countries condemning Trump and the deaths of the Kurds, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  Or is it only the USA that is suppose to expend its blood and treasure around the world. 

What evidence do you have that Kurds reverted to hating the USA. Or, in fact, that they ever hated the USA at all? Stop making things up.

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

What evidence do you have that Kurds reverted to hating the USA. Or, in fact, that they ever hated the USA at all? Stop making things up.

Bristolboy That was a quote from a USA soldier serving in Syria. 

[Opl]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truly bizarre. The only problem was having a warmonger as POTUS. The US under Obama had no reason, I repeat, no reason whatsoever, to get militarily involved in a foreign nation halfway around the world. That the withdrawal is problematic is something Mr Nobel award winner should have considered before sending in the drones and missiles.

 But yes, hopefully a whole new generation can learn that to send the US military to invade sovereign nations on the other side of the world is a bad idea. Blood will be spilled, and there will be unforeseen consequences. 

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

And to be totally economical with the truth ,  sending additional US Troups to defend Saudi Arabia's interests is not problematic for patriots like Trump's followers, truly bizarre.

 

[Thomas J]

7 minutes ago, Opl said:

And to be totally economical with the truth ,  sending additional US Troups to defend Saudi Arabia's interests is not problematic for patriots like Trump's followers, truly bizarre.

OPL,

Two things.  Saudi Arabia is vital to the world as a major oil exporter.  Syria is not. Second, Saudi's are paying the USA for the protection.  Again, if the world is so outraged, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  It is very easy to say to the USA go ahead and serve as the worlds policeman and we will benefit by your protection without laying out a single dollar or shedding a single life.  The USA should have never been involved in the Middle East either it Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria but not that they are there, how long do you compound the mistake,  It has already been 18 years in Afghanistan and many trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.  Eventually you have to say, sorry your region, your problem. 
 

[Dumbastheycome]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truly bizarre. The only problem was having a warmonger as POTUS. The US under Obama had no reason, I repeat, no reason whatsoever, to get militarily involved in a foreign nation halfway around the world. That the withdrawal is problematic is something Mr Nobel award winner should have considered before sending in the drones and missiles.

 But yes, hopefully a whole new generation can learn that to send the US military to invade sovereign nations on the other side of the world is a bad idea. Blood will be spilled, and there will be unforeseen consequences. 

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

Yes, the world is witnessing this deliverance of  world peace........not !

[Opl]

4 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL,

Two things.  Saudi Arabia is vital to the world as a major oil exporter.  Syria is not. Second, Saudi's are paying the USA for the protection.  Again, if the world is so outraged, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  It is very easy to say to the USA go ahead and serve as the worlds policeman and we will benefit by your protection without laying out a single dollar or shedding a single life.  The USA should have never been involved in the Middle East either it Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria but not that they are there, how long do you compound the mistake,  It has already been 18 years in Afghanistan and many trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.  Eventually you have to say, sorry your region, your problem. 
 

Don't worry for US economic interests, that's why Trump has been elected and will again. As non-American I can assure you, Europe has not finished to foot the bill for US engagements in the M.E. Enjoy your meal with the Saudis, you're our guest.     

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

Don't worry for US economic interests, that's why Trump has been elected and will again. As non-American I can assure you, Europe has not finished to foot the bill for US engagements in the M.E. Enjoy your meal with the Saudis, you're our guest.     

OPL, 
The USA is a net exporter of oil.  The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($29.1B), Japan ($25B), India ($19.4B), South Korea ($17.7B).  In terms of paying the bill, Europe has never even met its obligations to the U.N. let alone compensated the USA for protecting any region in the world.  Again, if you are so sanctimonious why are you not chastizing the Germans and French who are supplying Turkey with its arms and again where are 'YOUR TROOPS' shedding their blood to protect the Kurds. 

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL, 
The USA is a net exporter of oil.  The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($29.1B), Japan ($25B), India ($19.4B), South Korea ($17.7B).  In terms of paying the bill, Europe has never even met its obligations to the U.N. let alone compensated the USA for protecting any region in the world.  Again, if you are so sanctimonious why are you not chastizing the Germans and French who are supplying Turkey with its arms and again where are 'YOUR TROOPS' shedding their blood to protect the Kurds. 

First you lied about the Kurds, now you're lying about Europe.

https://www.euronews.com/2019/10/10/united-nations-running-out-of-money-with-member-states-not-paying-bills

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL,

Two things.  Saudi Arabia is vital to the world as a major oil exporter.  Syria is not. Second, Saudi's are paying the USA for the protection.  Again, if the world is so outraged, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  It is very easy to say to the USA go ahead and serve as the worlds policeman and we will benefit by your protection without laying out a single dollar or shedding a single life.  The USA should have never been involved in the Middle East either it Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria but not that they are there, how long do you compound the mistake,  It has already been 18 years in Afghanistan and many trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.  Eventually you have to say, sorry your region, your problem. 
 

The reason the US has to send troops to Saudi Arabia is because of the economic war it's waging on Iran. Trump's pretext that Iran was in violation of the nuclear accord is a lie.

[Opl]

6 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL, 
The USA is a net exporter of oil.  The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($29.1B), Japan ($25B), India ($19.4B), South Korea ($17.7B).  In terms of paying the bill, Europe has never even met its obligations to the U.N. let alone compensated the USA for protecting any region in the world.  Again, if you are so sanctimonious why are you not chastizing the Germans and French who are supplying Turkey with its arms and again where are 'YOUR TROOPS' shedding their blood to protect the Kurds. 

It's symptomatic that you only understand things in their USD aspect. But it's understandable, and in some way logical.

Take into consideration the impact of disruptions in the M.E for Europe in terms of economical, social, geopolitical, demographical, dimensions, and maybe - maybe- add on top that all Trump's moves to disintegrate what has been achieved before, and you'll grasp why things are worsening as a result.

But as you consider it's not your problem, and tell it loud and clear... mess around, lash out all over the place, and leave it to others to cope with the conséquences.

As for Germany and France, you need to update your infos.

     

[Thomas J]

OPL,

Germany and France were exporting weapons to Turkey.  You mean the fact that they have discontinued it somehow negates the weapons already in Turkish possession.  Where are those EUROPEAN troops guarding the Kurds.  As for the U.N. yes I incorrectly said the U.N. when I meant NATO which is guarding Europe.  The USA is shouldering over 70% of NATO which essentially is a shield for Europe not the USA.  Most of the countries do not pay their share and what they do pay is paltry.  Look at Germany and France.  

[Opl]

9 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL,

Germany and France were exporting weapons to Turkey.  You mean the fact that they have discontinued it somehow negates the weapons already in Turkish possession.  Where are those EUROPEAN troops guarding the Kurds.  As for the U.N. yes I incorrectly said the U.N. when I meant NATO which is guarding Europe.  The USA is shouldering over 70% of NATO which essentially is a shield for Europe not the USA.  Most of the countries do not pay their share and what they do pay is paltry.  Look at Germany and France.  

Frankly, this is not what is at stake at the moment, but if you consider that fighting against political islam is not the priority, you're lucky not to be under the threat; french special forces were engaged within the former coalition alongside withe the Kurds - and are in Sahel ( Africa)  too, not mentioning on its own soil.

 

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL,

Germany and France were exporting weapons to Turkey.  You mean the fact that they have discontinued it somehow negates the weapons already in Turkish possession.  Where are those EUROPEAN troops guarding the Kurds.  As for the U.N. yes I incorrectly said the U.N. when I meant NATO which is guarding Europe.  The USA is shouldering over 70% of NATO which essentially is a shield for Europe not the USA.  Most of the countries do not pay their share and what they do pay is paltry.  Look at Germany and France.  

 

 

 

 

 

Do you believe that the USA has not been selling arms to Turkey?

As always with FMS notifications, a few large sales can drive the overall total. Sixteen of the 63 sales requests topped $1 billion, led by Taiwan’s F-16 request ($8 billion), Poland’s F-35 request ($6.5 billion), Morocco’s F-16s ($3.79 billion), the U.K’s procurement of Chinook helicopters ($3.5 billion), Turkey’s Patriot request ($3.5 billion) and Japan’s largest SM-3 request ($3.3 billion).

https://www.defensenews.com/global/2019/10/04/heres-how-many-foreign-military-sales-the-state-department-okd-in-fy19/

 

ANd while Turkey has been stockpiling F-16 fighter jet parts in anticipation of sanctions against selling them to Turkey, so far those sanctions haven't materialized.

[Thomas J]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Do you believe that the USA has not been selling arms to Turkey?

As always with FMS notifications, a few large sales can drive the overall total. Sixteen of the 63 sales requests topped $1 billion, led by Taiwan’s F-16 request ($8 billion), Poland’s F-35 request ($6.5 billion), Morocco’s F-16s ($3.79 billion), the U.K’s procurement of Chinook helicopters ($3.5 billion), Turkey’s Patriot request ($3.5 billion) and Japan’s largest SM-3 request ($3.3 billion).

https://www.defensenews.com/global/2019/10/04/heres-how-many-foreign-military-sales-the-state-department-okd-in-fy19/

Bristolboy,

 

Yes the USA has sold arms to Turkey?  What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  Turkey was a major ally.  Again, if Europe is so sanctimonious on guarding the Kurds, no one is stopping them from sending in troops to protect them.  It is hypocritical for them to sell arms to Turkey, then chastise the USA for pulling out of the region.  Again, HOW LONG SHOULD THE USA PROTECT THE KURDS.  WWII ended in 1945 and the USA is still picking up the tab to have 36 military bases with over 40,000 troops in Germany.  Eventually you have to say, not my monkey, not my circus and leave. It has already cost the USA an estimated $275 Billion.  Easy for other countries to say, there is a bully in Turkey, we won't lend a hand but USA go in spend your money and sacrifice your citizens.  

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Bristolboy,

 

Yes the USA has sold arms to Turkey?  What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  Turkey was a major ally.  Again, if Europe is so sanctimonious on guarding the Kurds, no one is stopping them from sending in troops to protect them.  It is hypocritical for them to sell arms to Turkey, then chastise the USA for pulling out of the region.  Again, HOW LONG SHOULD THE USA PROTECT THE KURDS.  WWII ended in 1945 and the USA is still picking up the tab to have 36 military bases with over 40,000 troops in Germany.  Eventually you have to say, not my monkey, not my circus and leave. 

Again, you need to enlarge the scope

if you're so interested in arm deals, you are right to

Arms deal with Russia jeopardises Ankara’s role in Nato and its relations with US. Will the risk pay off?

For some U.S. officials, the Trump administration’s failure to persuade Turkey not to buy a Russian air defense system may have its roots in a coup attempt against President Tayyip Erdogan three years ago  

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

Again, you need to enlarge the scope

if you're so interested in arm deals, you are right to

Arms deal with Russia jeopardises Ankara’s role in Nato and its relations with US. Will the risk pay off?

For some U.S. officials, the Trump administration’s failure to persuade Turkey not to buy a Russian air defense system may have its roots in a coup attempt against President Tayyip Erdogan three years ago  

OPL That is apples to oranges.  It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for Europe to sell arms to Turkey and then chastise the USA for not sending troops to defend against them.  If you and your sanctimonious Europeans care THEN SEND TROOPS.  Don't say to the USA "WE THINK" it is right for you to spill your soldiers blood and spend billions while we sit on our hands and merely criticize you from a safe distance. WWII ended almost 3/4 of a century ago, and the USA still has over 40,000 troops and 36 military bases in Germany.  HOW LONG DOES SOMEONE STAY before saying, we should not have been there in the first place and get out. 

[Opl]

57 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL That is apples to oranges.  It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for Europe to sell arms to Turkey and then chastise the USA for not sending troops to defend against them.  If you and your sanctimonious Europeans care THEN SEND TROOPS.  Don't say to the USA "WE THINK" it is right for you to spill your soldiers blood and spend billions while we sit on our hands and merely criticize you from a safe distance. WWII ended almost 3/4 of a century ago, and the USA still has over 40,000 troops and 36 military bases in Germany.  HOW LONG DOES SOMEONE STAY before saying, we should not have been there in the first place and get out. 

It's apples and oranges , but from you…. sorry, but It's diifficult not to miss elements of comprehension in complex situations like the M.E conflicts. 

I never said what you pretend I said. It's dishonest from you to suggest it, for I  see things from a different perspective; all I posted concerns the conséquences Europeans have to cope with the consequences for the defense of US Economic interests. Did the 2003 Iraq war benefit US Oil,  Arms, industries, not mentioning private mercenaries companies, (same today with S.A) ? You are ansolutely right, the US should not have been there in the first place (French  warning..), but money talks ( see the increase of US troops to Saudi Arabia)

You put the Global Coalition To Defeat ISIS in the same basket, and IMO, this is not correct. 

Compare US losses in Afghanistan, Irak, to US and allies losses in Syria in the frame of the Coalition, and maybe you'll understand what it is all about, not just arms sales.   

   

[Thomas J]

22 minutes ago, Opl said:

Europeans have to cope with the consequences for the defense of US Economic interests.

OPL  LOL.  Oh were the consequences of the USA Economic Interest the reason that the majority of the world does not speak German today?  Or do you forget about WWI and WWII.  In terms of the Middle East as stated, the oil in the Middle East is far far far more important to the rest of the world than it is to the USA.  The USA now is a net oil exporter and if necessary could support itself.  Of course Europe would be SOL but perhaps the USA should not care about that either.  Again if Europe thinks it is so important to protect the Kurds no one is stopping them from sending troops and losing the lives of its young citizens for a region that once you depart will degrade back into the hell hole it was before you arrived.  The USA should have never been in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria but we were.  So stop blaming Trump for trying to end the ludicrous nature of the USA trying to control a region of the world that it can not.  I for one am sick of the pictures such as attached.  Perhaps if you get off your sanctimonious pedestal send some troops and have your young citizens come back like this, you will feel the same.  Time to end it.