Turkish-led forces advance into Syrian border town, fighting rages

[Opl]

Thomas J

It's really painfull : you are so much out of topic that you need to call on wounded US vétérans to the rescue.

The Coalition against ISIS is the topic. Because of Trump's overnight decision all by himself to abandon the Kurds to Turkey, that is to say to ISIS ( the vétérans also fought).

The US loss in the Coalition is about 10 or so, and it's too much, and more as they come in addition to the thousands registred in Iraq and Afghanistan (wars the European did not decide to launch for their own economic interests). For information, the Kurds  lost 10 000 lives, as they are also fighting for their territory and ISIS jihadists while Trump bragged to have defeated the Caliphate ( ask Mattis) 

ISIS and its revival thanks to Trum's tweet move without consulting anyone,  is the topic, not WWI, WWII, whatever..

But it's OK to have US troops to defend Saudi Arabia, go figure what the vétérans think of that reversal,  

Thanks anyway for your insight,

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

But it's OK to have US troops to defend Saudi Arabia, go figure what the vétérans think of that reversal,  

OPL, I would not have USA troops in Saudi Arabia either.  As stated, the USA is energy independent and though it may be an inconvenience it is time for those regions who are far more dependent on Middle Eastern oil to step up and send troops and not their mouths about what the USA should or should not do.  I have said it before, when your country starts bringing home its young men and women in body bags, you have skin in the game.  Until then, you are just a group of complainers that expects the USA to be your bodyguards and the policeman of the world.  It is easy to sit on the sideline and expect the USA to protect the world from evil.  Perhaps if Russia was to invade Europe and the USA would sit on its hands like Europe is doing in the Middle East you would view things differently. As stated, the Middle East is a hell hole.  It will be "contained" only so long as the USA has troops there.  Once we leave it will revert back to to the squalor and misery it was and I for one have no desire to have my grandchildren or great grand children stationed there 75 years from now so that we can "protect them".  Their country, their problems. 

[Opl]

16 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL, I would not have USA troops in Saudi Arabia either.  As stated, the USA is energy independent and though it may be an inconvenience it is time for those regions who are far more dependent on Middle Eastern oil to step up and send troops and not their mouths about what the USA should or should not do.  I have said it before, when your country starts bringing home its young men and women in body bags, you have skin in the game.  Until then, you are just a group of complainers that expects the USA to be your bodyguards and the policeman of the world.  It is easy to sit on the sideline and expect the USA to protect the world from evil.  Perhaps if Russia was to invade Europe and the USA would sit on its hands like Europe is doing in the Middle East you would view things differently. As stated, the Middle East is a hell hole.  It will be "contained" only so long as the USA has troops there.  Once we leave it will revert back to to the squalor and misery it was and I for one have no desire to have my grandchildren or great grand children stationed there 75 years from now so that we can "protect them".  Their country, their problems. 

I understand and agree.

ISIS has no territory for it's first an ideology. So don't expect to be out of reach in the future.  

And if I may, Russia has proven it does not need to invade your territory to expand it's influence, other ways are cheaper.

Trump is feeding them.

 
 

[Thomas J]

12 minutes ago, Opl said:

I understand and agree.

ISIS has no territory for it's first an ideology. So don't expect to be out of reach in the future.  

And if I may, Russia has proven it does not need to invade your territory to expand it's influence, other ways are cheaper.

Trump is feeding them.

 
 

LOL You must be a Hillary fan.  You are like all anti-Trumpers.  If he stayed in Syria he would be a war monger, if he leaves he is a coward abandoning the Kurds.  Perhaps the USA should end its support of sending LPG and Natural gas to Europe and let it support itself on supplies from Russia and see how that works out.  I for one, and sick of the European ingrates who spend virtually nothing to protect their economic interest but expect the USA to be their mercenaries protecting their oil supplies, and defense.  I see no other countries spending billions of dollars and sacrificing its young to protect the vital interests of their own country let alone support the USA.  Even countries like Germany, and Canada are nothing more than jealous cousins who rely on the USA but have no problem being Brutas and stabbing the USA in the back each chance they get.  It is a good thing for Europe that I am not in charge of the USA for I would say its time for them to grow up and pay for their own defense. 

As for who was in Russia's pocket one only need to be reminded of Obama telling Medvedev to convey to Putin he would have "more flexibility" after being re-elected.
 

 

[Opl]

11 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

LOL You must be a Hillary fan.  You are like all anti-Trumpers.  If he stayed in Syria he would be a war monger, if he leaves he is a coward abandoning the Kurds.  Perhaps the USA should end its support of sending LPG and Natural gas to Europe and let it support itself on supplies from Russia and see how that works out.  I for one, and sick of the European ingrates who spend virtually nothing to protect their economic interest but expect the USA to be their mercenaries protecting their oil supplies, and defense.  I see no other countries spending billions of dollars and sacrificing its young to protect the vital interests of their own country let alone support the USA.  Even countries like Germany, and Canada are nothing more than jealous cousins who rely on the USA but have no problem being Brutas and stabbing the USA in the back each chance they get.  It is a good thing for Europe that I am not in charge of the USA for I would say its time for them to grow up and pay for their own defense. 

Because the Commanders in chief are Europeans ?  Because The US want NATO  and Europeans to buy US arms first ?  

And I'm not a Hillary fan or an anti-Trump - Trump is the continuity of Obama's Policy, except that he is more transparent - LOL 

I do hope Europe will end up having a common defense with its independant strategy and adopt a Buy European act , and guess what… The US are against, reason why they do their best - and succeed in this effort of disintegration. - with the interested overlook of Russia, and China.

And - if I believe what you stated - I do regret that you are not in charge in the USA  - let's both hope Trump's efforts will bring Europe together!  

[Orton Rd]

8 hours ago, Tug said:

So heart breaking and so unessary those are our allies beeing killed with their families just a token force of Americans was stopping this slaughter Donald trump you have blood on your hands you are a disgrace to the nation 

No he does not, the USA should not be the world policeman and withdrawing is no excuse for Turkey to go on the slaughter again. The Turks love nothing more than killing Kurds and killed hundreds of thousands in the attempted genocide of them.

[Cory1848]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

Yes, and I am sure that it's on Donald's mind to order his Justice Department to launch an investigation into the Nobel Committee, to find out why it didn't give him that prize. So maybe we'll find out what the problem is.

[jany123]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And Trump and his supporters don't know and/or don't care. MAGA, yeah, sure.

 

Trump should finish that wall around the USA and make sure no American is ever allowed out of it. Then the rest of the world can live happily ever after.

Man o man!

 

your making exactly the same mistake as dunderklumppen... walls don’t work! You gotta add a roof!

[J Town]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

So heart breaking and so unessary those are our allies beeing killed with their families just a token force of Americans was stopping this slaughter Donald trump you have blood on your hands you are a disgrace to the nation 

Your MESSAGE came through clear and concise!!!

[Sujo]

For the love of buddha. Its only 50 troops the US had to leave there to stop this slaughter who fought on behalf of the US.

 

He pulls 50 out and there is a slaughter. Then puts an extra few thousand in Saudi.

 

That does not equate to a reduction. Its an increase. Simple maths.

 

But too much for trump supporters to comprehend. Trump tower in istanbul must be doing well.

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

let's both hope Trump's efforts will bring Europe together!  

OPL, well if Europe is invaded perhaps you can just call on France.  They were so instrumental in both WWI and WWII.  In the case of the Kurds perhaps you can just get the leaders of Europe to send transports to bring them all to Europe since it seems to be intent on cultural suicide and turning itself into an Islamic state. Why launch a Jihad to form a Caliphate when the Europeans are willing to give them that and pay them welfare benefits to boot. 

[Srikcir]

Syrian Arab Fighters Backed by Turkey Kill Two Kurdish Prisoners

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/world/middleeast/turkey-invasion-syria-kurds.html

• The killing of two Kurdish captives by Arab fighters — a possible war crime — is an indication of the ethnically tinged hatreds flaring in the wake of President Trump’s pullback of American forces in the area.
• A video that captured one of the killings shows two of the Turkish-backed group’s fighters firing bullets at close range into the man with his hands tied while their colleagues shout “God is great!”
• The second prisoner who was killed appears in the video alive and wearing a military uniform, but he is missing from the group’s later social media post about its captives. “The guy in the military outfit was neutralized,”

This is Trump's Middle East peace plan - war crimes?

[Opl]

22 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

OPL, well if Europe is invaded perhaps you can just call on France.  They were so instrumental in both WWI and WWII.  In the case of the Kurds perhaps you can just get the leaders of Europe to send transports to bring them all to Europe since it seems to be intent on cultural suicide and turning itself into an Islamic state. Why launch a Jihad to form a Caliphate when the Europeans are willing to give them that and pay them welfare benefits to boot. 

Thomas J,

I will politely decline to address your post, at least you seem to realise why France warned the US not to engage in a war with Iraq without a UN mandate. Great. 

Erdogan managed to convince Trump to abandon the Kurds, and got a green light from him.

Easy to convince Trump when money talks  ( pretty sure Erdogan was in command of the prompter..“We have spent a tremendous amount of money helping the Kurds,” ).      

[White Christmas13]

As stated, the Middle East is a hell hole.  It will be "contained" only so long as the USA has troops there.  Once we leave it will revert back to to the squalor and misery it was   Thomas said,

So that's the reason you have all the troops in Germany, because when you pull them out it

will revert to squalor as well? What a stupid remark.

[JemJem]

Yes, these are very troubling times indeed. For so many reasons.

 

Turkey, especially since around 2014, in many ways resembles Germany of the 1930's !!! Where was EU's and US's reaction, even for example 1-2 years ago, when it was obvious that Erdogan wouldn't order the release of dozens of political prisoners within Turkey (and, I am sure there are no naive forum members here who think Erdogan doesn't control the judiciary in Turkey to a large degree) ? And, how about during the invasion of Afrin, and then when it was obvious that Erdogan's forces and the semi-jihadi proxies would likely be there long-term or even permanently ?

 

All the EU and the US did was to 'express concern', or impose laughable, minor financial aid cuts. Weapons have continued to be sold to Erdogan. All sorts of business deals have been made. Even if some sanctions are imposed now, it is likely that even now they will be minor ones.

 

Dozens of civilians have been killed now in Rojava, and the chances are 99 percent that dozens more will be killed soon. And,  all the secularist and democratic gains made there will go down the drain. As for the revival of the IS (either under that name or a new one) is sadly likely in the near future. Even if this doesn't happen, it is very likely that several other jihadi and/or semi-jihadi groups will emerge and commit atrocious crimes.

 

Very sad times. As for Trump, of course, he also has blood in his hands.

 

I am repeating: Erdogan's reign, in many ways, resembles very much the early or mid-period reign of Hitler. Of course when I am saying this, I am not making light of Hitler's crimes, which were a lot worse. But, really, there is ample reason to believe that  Erdogan is capable of terrible crimes, albeit at less scale than that of Hitler.

 

[jany123]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

OPL, well if Europe is invaded perhaps you can just call on France.  They were so instrumental in both WWI and WWII.  In the case of the Kurds perhaps you can just get the leaders of Europe to send transports to bring them all to Europe since it seems to be intent on cultural suicide and turning itself into an Islamic state. Why launch a Jihad to form a Caliphate when the Europeans are willing to give them that and pay them welfare benefits to boot. 

Why hang do doo on France? Not many European nations successfully resisted the Germans... but thankfully Russia was on the right side, back then.

 

And if you must talk of historical wars, let’s remember that the US got it’s butt handed to them in Vietnam, amongst other places.... whereas Napoleon was called the conquerer of the world (he was a frog) 

 

[quadperfect]

Obama told the kurds that usa involvement would be temporary and tactical to fight isis . Turkey is the original usa ally. 

What a mess.

Its a no win for usa. Turks and kurds need to knock it off.

[Crazy Alex]

Thank GOD president Trump is getting us out of Obama's war in Syria. It's taken too long, but better late than never. It's a regional conflict. The US has done enough. And what a shame we have a segment of Americans who have decided they love war and want us bogged down in Syria. Speaking of that, what happened to the standard anti-war leftists applied to George W. Bush going into Iraq. Syria has not been an imminent threat to us.

 

Now that Ergodan has said he'll be sending *refugees* (which, of course means he'll be intentionally hiding terrorists in the crowd) to Europe, hopefully the limp-wristed powers that be there will man up and send some man power to take care of business. Or not.

 

Their region. Their problem.

[Stargeezr]

Maybe it is time to just let the Middle East take care of their own problems.

Maybe it is time to step back and stay out of the conflicts and let the blood flow 

where the fighting is at. Maybe the Turks can find the prisons where the ISIS prisoners are at and deal with them as well. I get sad when I hear of

foreign soldiers dying in the ME, for any of these conflicts.

Geezer

[Credo]

16 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Truly bizarre. The only problem was having a warmonger as POTUS. The US under Obama had no reason, I repeat, no reason whatsoever, to get militarily involved in a foreign nation halfway around the world. That the withdrawal is problematic is something Mr Nobel award winner should have considered before sending in the drones and missiles.

 But yes, hopefully a whole new generation can learn that to send the US military to invade sovereign nations on the other side of the world is a bad idea. Blood will be spilled, and there will be unforeseen consequences. 

 Blaming this on peaceful Donald Trump is quite ridiculous. The guy deserved that gong last week, nobody has ever worked so hard on delivering world peace as him.

 

12 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The Turks have been persecuting the Kurds for decades.  Obama got the USA into this mess by sending troops into Syria hoping to destabilize yet another country laying it open for the Muslim brotherhood.  The Kurds were 'ALLIES' to the USA only so long as they were fighting with the USA against a common enemy.  As soon as that enemy ISIS was vanquished they reverted to hating the USA.   As for the other countries condemning Trump and the deaths of the Kurds, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  Or is it only the USA that is suppose to expend its blood and treasure around the world. 

Your support for this pull out is truly bizarre.   The reason the US got involved had to with the threat of ISIS to the US and to US interests.   The heavy lifting was done by the Kurds, so all-in-all, about as easy of a deal that the US gets.   ISIS was not defeated, but they were corralled and a lot imprisoned.   

 

So we weren't there for Syria.   We weren't there for  Turkey.   We were there for our National Security.   That is now at a greater risk once again.

 

[Opl]

"Russia, wielding its 14th UNSC veto to date on the Syria war, said it did not endorse the EU statement because it did not "speak about the illegal military presence in that country and the need to terminate it immediately", referring to European and US coalition forces. "

Russia stands to gain from the debacle by being left free to turn Syria into its Mediterranean protectorate.

 

"The Syrian government and the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have been holding negotiations with Russian participation, a Syrian Kurdish politician said on Sunday, expressing hope for a deal that would halt a Turkish attack. The source close to the Syrian government said meetings between the SDF and Damascus had taken place before and after the latest Turkish offensive. "

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-kurds-damascus/exclusive-damascus-kurdish-led-sdf-held-talks-at-russian-airbase-kurdish-politician-idUSKBN1WS0MY

 

"Syria troops sent north to 'confront' Turkey attack amid Kurd negotiations with Damascus"

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/14/world/syria-troops-sent-north-confront-turkey-attack-amid-kurd-negotiations-damascus/

[pegman]

Kurds have now switched sides. Well done Trump.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7568915/Kurds-President-Assad-sign-deal-allow-Syrian-Army-joint-fight-against-Turkish-invasion.html

[Cryingdick]

16 minutes ago, pegman said:

Kurds have now switched sides. Well done Trump.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7568915/Kurds-President-Assad-sign-deal-allow-Syrian-Army-joint-fight-against-Turkish-invasion.html

 

Well that seems to imply the Kurds are fickle in their loyalties. If they flip sides so easily it seems they weren't any great ally. Anyway as others have said this is Europe's backyard time for them to take action and stop whining.

 

 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Well that seems to imply the Kurds are fickle in their loyalties. If they flip sides so easily it seems they weren't any great ally. Anyway as others have said this is Europe's backyard time for them to take action and stop whining.

 

 

What a perverse thing to say.   They have been loyal allies of the US for a very, very long time.   Being quickly abandoned has left not only the fighters, but there entire families subject to enemies from both sides.   They have little choice.   

The fickle ally is the US.

 

[tgw]

4 hours ago, pegman said:

Kurds have now switched sides. Well done Trump.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7568915/Kurds-President-Assad-sign-deal-allow-Syrian-Army-joint-fight-against-Turkish-invasion.html

maybe that's what was intended.

 

it very conveniently returns Syrian territory to Assad's control without the USA or anyone having to lose too much face and Erdogan gains electoral support thanks to whoever let him do this, and the Kurds no doubt get some kind of semi-autonomy in their area.

 

[alanrchase]

OPL,
Two things.  Saudi Arabia is vital to the world as a major oil exporter.  Syria is not. Second, Saudi's are paying the USA for the protection.  Again, if the world is so outraged, WHERE ARE THEIR TROOPS.  It is very easy to say to the USA go ahead and serve as the worlds policeman and we will benefit by your protection without laying out a single dollar or shedding a single life.  The USA should have never been involved in the Middle East either it Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria but not that they are there, how long do you compound the mistake,  It has already been 18 years in Afghanistan and many trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.  Eventually you have to say, sorry your region, your problem. 
 

Do you have any concerns that the US military can now be bought? How much money is the government making out of soldiers lives?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Opl]

5 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Well that seems to imply the Kurds are fickle in their loyalties. If they flip sides so easily it seems they weren't any great ally. Anyway as others have said this is Europe's backyard time for them to take action and stop whining.

 

 

To justify the agreement between the Kurds and Damascus, top SDF commander Mazloum Abdi told Foreign Policy that the Syrian regime and its Russian ally had "made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people."
"We know we will have to make painful compromises," but "between the compromises and the genocide of our people, we will choose life," he said.
Just before the Turkish offensive, the Kurds had called on Russia to play a role of "guarantor" in the "dialogue" with the regime, which then said it was ready to "welcome into its fold its lost children".

 

[Cryingdick]

4 hours ago, Credo said:

What a perverse thing to say.   They have been loyal allies of the US for a very, very long time.   Being quickly abandoned has left not only the fighters, but there entire families subject to enemies from both sides.   They have little choice.   

The fickle ally is the US.

 

 

Define " a long time" Let the EU take care of it. If they don't help expect refugees.

[Opl]

17 hours ago, quadperfect said:

Obama told the kurds that usa involvement would be temporary and tactical to fight isis . Turkey is the original usa ally. 

What a mess.

Its a no win for usa. Turks and kurds need to knock it off.