"Cheat Sheet" for Longstay Insurance Policies

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I found a copy I had of the official Pacific Cross brochure for their Platinum policy range for long-stay visas that I received from them back in May... Also in that document, no mention of a deductible option.

 

 

Pacific Cross Long Stay Visa Platinum Policy Brochure.pdf

 

[Sheryl]

So maybe the rep had it confused with other plans...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

So maybe the rep had it confused with other plans...

 

I'll ask again and try to confirm, next time I'm in touch with them.... Unless someone else beats me to it!  

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

This is what I was told in writing (email) from a rep there:

 

" Dear Sheryl,

 

In the insurance certificate there will be no mention of deductibles. This is one of our strong points, no other company that is approved by immigration has deductibles in their plans."

 

and

 

" *2. For the Platinum Plan that can enrol up to age 75, is therean option

  for taking a deductible to reduce premium?  *

 " Yes, we have 40,000, 100,000, 200,000 and 300,000 deductibles"

 

Out of curiosity, who have you and @TallGuyJohninBKK been liaising with at Pacific Cross? I have been dealing with a lady called Tuenjai Vinunt in their Sales Department, and below is a suitably-edited extract from the email she sent me this morning on the Platinum/deductibles issue:-

 

"Dear OJAS,

Thank you for your reply.

For Long Stay Visa Plan we do not have the option of deductibles."

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Out of curiosity, who have you and @TallGuyJohninBKK been liaising with at Pacific Cross? I have been dealing with a lady called Tuenjai Vinunt in their Sales Department, and below is a suitably-edited extract from the email she sent me this morning on the Platinum/deductibles issue:-

 

 

Yes, I've been talking with a couple of different farang guys in their international sales dept. in BKK -- one guy who's been there a while by the name of Stephen at ext. 247, and another guy who's relatively new by the name of Clark at x254. But I don't know if they're the best people to talk to specifically about O-A related issues vs. general Pacific Cross policy issues.

[Sheryl]

And I was communicating with a different foreigner.

 

Perhaps @PacificCrossInsurance

could clarify this issue?

[JTXR]

Unless I'm reading their websites wrong (their links on longstay.tgia.org), ThaiVivat currently offers their lowest coverage plan (HNIV01) up to age 100 (renewal only 76-100), and Navakij offers their lowest coverage plan up to age 80.

[OJAS]

On 10/22/2019 at 2:36 PM, Sheryl said:

 

It is good news re the deductibles. But why on earth is he saying Standard Plus is not compliant. It is 450/45 so should be. Regular standard of course not, but plus should be. (Though I would advise people to go for a higher level of cover if this will be their only policy and if they can afford to).

 

On 10/22/2019 at 2:45 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I asked that exact same question, Sheryl, since as you noted, the limits of the Standard Plus policy DO fit within the 400/40K limits. The guy's answer was, the Standard Plus policy hadn't been certified by the government...

 

And it presumably isn't because of its XXXX baht X 30 OPD visits provisions, since the Standard Extra has similar OPD language but with a higher per visit limit. And that kind of OPD language apparently isn't a problem. So where's the logic in it?  I have no clue.

 

But might this have something to do with the fact that hospital choices for this particular policy are restricted? According to the Pacific Cross brochure, neither this nor the Standard policy can be used at a number of hospitals in the BDMS Group listed in Remark #8.
 

[Pawpal]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:40 AM, Sheryl said:

And I was communicating with a different foreigner.

 

Perhaps @PacificCrossInsurance

could clarify this issue?

Sheryl -- Greetings from another of your many fans (I'm a longtime follower but first-time commenter). US citizen now living mostly in Bangkok. Turned 65 last July and, following your advice, promptly enrolled in Medicare Plans A & B. My current medical insurance policy, good worldwide, expires in May 2020; and since I rarely travel anywhere apart from Thailand and the US, am looking into changing to a Thailand medical insurance policy (which is far cheaper). Again following your advice, recently contacted AA Insurance Brokers, who sent me info for Pacific Cross and April Health Essential Thailand Plan. I remember you saying April Health's internationally based Thailand plan was better, and was wondering if you could elaborate. Also, your opinion of Pacific Cross vs April (or any other policy you might recommend). 

 

One specific question: from what I read, it seems April's Thailand plan isn't renewable after age 90. Is this actually the case and, if so, is there any way around it (well, apart from dying before 90)?

 

Thanks!

[Sheryl]

The guaranteed renewal only up to 90 is one of the reasons I prefer the international plan. The other is that the international plan comes under French insurance regs which are much stricter than Thailand's. The April-Thailand policy contains the standard language of all Thai insurers saving that premiums can be adjusted based on claims history. Supposedly they do not actually do this, at least not to date, but they can if they want to.

 

However if your concern is to meet the new immigration insurance requirement then the April inetrantional poilicy, as it now stands, would not be accepted. April Thailand would because ti is underwritten by oen of the 13 companies specified by immigration. Pacific cross would as well.

 

Note that the Immigration requirement pertains only to people who entered on an OA visa and it is at this point unclear if Imm offices will apply it to extensions of stay by people  who enterrd on an OA visa (1) never (2) always or (3) only if their OA was issued after the effective date of 31 October.  People who have asked at their local Imm office have been given conflicting information (soemtimes from the same place on different days). This will likely all become clearer in the coming months.

 

 

 

[Pawpal]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The guaranteed renewal only up to 90 is one of the reasons I prefer the international plan. The other is that the international plan comes under French insurance regs which are much stricter than Thailand's. The April-Thailand policy contains the standard language of all Thai insurers saving that premiums can be adjusted based on claims history. Supposedly they do not actually do this, at least not to date, but they can if they want to.

 

However if your concern is to meet the new immigration insurance requirement then the April inetrantional poilicy, as it now stands, would not be accepted. April Thailand would because ti is underwritten by oen of the 13 companies specified by immigration. Pacific cross would as well.

 

Note that the Immigration requirement pertains only to people who entered on an OA visa and it is at this point unclear if Imm offices will apply it to extensions of stay by people  who enterrd on an OA visa (1) never (2) always or (3) only if their OA was issued after the effective date of 31 October.  People who have asked at their local Imm office have been given conflicting information (soemtimes from the same place on different days). This will likely all become clearer in the coming months.

 

 

 

Thanks so much, Sheryl. So far, I've no need to meet the new immigration insurance requirement, so it looks like April's international plan might be worth the extra expense (approx 12,000 baht more, if I calculate correctly). I'm thinking of the Essential policy without Outpatient, and maybe a deductible. Do you think that's adequate?

 

I noticed Pacific Cross requires applicants of my age to submit a physical exam. Is the same also required of April Health? (Fortunately, I have no pre-existing conditions...well, that I know of.)

 

Thanks again. Your advice is extremely helpful.

 

 

[Momofarang]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:35 PM, OJAS said:

Out of curiosity, who have you and @TallGuyJohninBKK been liaising with at Pacific Cross? I have been dealing with a lady called Tuenjai Vinunt in their Sales Department, and below is a suitably-edited extract from the email she sent me this morning on the Platinum/deductibles issue:-

 

"Dear OJAS,

Thank you for your reply.

For Long Stay Visa Plan we do not have the option of deductibles."

 

That's what I got from Pacific Cross once I explained that I only wanted something like an "empty shell" plan. It isn't a secondary coverage but has the virtue of being simple. Now it remains to be seen what immigration would have to say about a 300000 deductible. While for me it would only increase the cost of my extension by 26000 a year without any additional coverage.

 

One point needs to be clarified, when is your OA visa renewal?

 

Below, please find the price options for the minimum plan that meets the requirements.

 

Age Bracket (66-70)

 

Standard Extra - 51,989

Add deductible of 40,000 - 38,992

Add deductible of 100,000 - 35,093

Add deductible of 200,000 - 31,934

Add deductible of 300,000 - 25,995

These are the discounts that deductiblces can have on our plans:

 

40,000 THB Deductible = 25% discount

100,000 THB Deductible = 32.50% discount

200,000 THB Deductible = 40% discount

300,000 THB Deductible = 50% discount

Yes, I can definitely confirm that on the first year of No Claims, you receive a 10% discount, 15% on the second year, and 20% ongoingly for the third year onwards. I have attached the Standard Extra plan to this email for your reference.

 

Once I know when your visa renewal, we could know what the process is like because your insurance policy date has to be aligned with your visa renewal/application date.

 

Thanks, and have a great evening

 

 

[Sheryl]

I have received clarification from the Pacific cross rep who originally told me deductibles could be used, that thsi is nto the case for ths

ose seeking certification of OA insurance. Updating the chart attachment accordingly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I have received clarification from the Pacific cross rep who originally told me deductibles could be used, that thsi is nto the case for ths

ose seeking certification of OA insurance. Updating the chart attachment accordingly.

 

That conflicts with what Pacific Cross reps have told me directly... that deductibles are perfectly fine, even for O-A certified policies. And that the insurance certificates they'll issue for O-A purposes will only mention the IPD/OPD coverage amounts, and nothing about deductibles one way or the other.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Tracyb]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That conflicts with what Pacific Cross reps have told me directly... that deductibles are perfectly fine, even for O-A certified policies. And that the insurance certificates they'll issue for O-A purposes will only mention the IPD/OPD coverage amounts, and nothing about deductibles one way or the other.

 

 

thanks for that information....  I'm considering Pacific Cross at the moment!

[Sheryl]

They told me that too initially. Then others posted opposite info and I went back to them and asked again and they reversed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Tracyb said:

thanks for that information....  I'm considering Pacific Cross at the moment!

 

Given the account Sheryl has just posted above, one of the first question I'd be asking Pacific Cross, if I was talking to them about a prospective O-A policy, is whether a person can have an O-A policy that includes deductibles.

 

Just for a little clarity:  Pacific Cross's original 3 Platinum policies specifically for the O-A requirement do NOT even have any option for deductibles.

 

But their larger number of general public insurance policies that they also say are O-A certified DO, at least in the terms of the policies and premiums, include the option for deductibles. I'm assuming those were the ones Sheryl was commenting on above and raising the question about whether those policies in fact can have deductibles and still be O-A certified.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

They told me that too initially. Then others posted opposite info and I went back to them and asked again and they reversed.

 

Needless to say, the question about whether O-A certified health policies can have deductibles or not is not a particularly complicated subject... either they can, or they can't. That's about it. You'd think and hope the various Pacific Cross folks answering inquiries on this could get their act together a bit better!

 

[Sheryl]

OK. Got this clarification:

 

" Dear Sheryl,

 

Thanks for your email.

 

Our Long Stay Visa plans are not our historic product suite and do not have deductible options.. Long Stay Visa plans are the Platinum 1/2/3 plans that are allowed for both the OX and OA visa. These were the only plans approved in May. But now, any plan from a Standard Extra and above in our product suite 'Lifestyle Series' is allowed for the OA visa only. Our 'Lifestyle Series' has the option of deductibles, not the 'Long Stay Visa' Plans.

 

Taking a deductible from our 'Lifestyle Series' plan doesn't affect the certificate required by immigration. There will be no mention of deductibles.

 

Just to clarify again, our Platinum 'Long Stay Visa' plans do not have deductibles. These plans are mainly for OX visa holders, however OA visa holders can buy it too as it meets the minimum requirements.

 

Any plan from a Standard Extra and above from our 'Lifestyle Series' is allowed, and has the option of deductibles.

 

Hope this clarifies any misunderstandings."

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Any plan from a Standard Extra and above from our 'Lifestyle Series' is allowed, and has the option of deductibles.

 

So it's exactly as we've been posting and reporting here.... deductibles are perfectly fine for O-A certification purposes as long as you choose one of Pacific Cross's general public "Lifestyle" series plans and don't opt out of OPD (which comes included by default).

 

Thanks for confirming that and correcting the earlier miscue.

 

[Sheryl]

The chart has been updated as Diphaya has finally come out with a product. Nochange to the smaller chart in the pinned thread because they, like most, do nto provide lifetime renewal.

[Sheryl]

Update: there is a Ministry of Public Health Guideline out which lists 2 companies not currently showing on the tgia website: Bangkok Insurance Co and Syn Mon Kong. I am trying to verify whether these also have policies that can be used even though they do nto appear on the website. At this point it is unclear if they were initially planned and dropped out or are late additions that do not yet show on the website.

[Sheryl]

Bangkok Insurance confirmed but product available only from December. Chart has been updated.

[Tuvoc]

On 11/7/2019 at 2:01 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So it's exactly as we've been posting and reporting here.... deductibles are perfectly fine for O-A certification purposes as long as you choose one of Pacific Cross's general public "Lifestyle" series plans and don't opt out of OPD (which comes included by default).

 

Thanks for confirming that and correcting the earlier miscue.

 

But I wonder how long it will take for them to close that loophole. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

But I wonder how long it will take for them to close that loophole. 

 

 

I don't expect any change about that. The government approved their policies as they were. And, the O-A documentation they'll issue to show to Immigration just will list the policy cover amounts, and not anything about deductibles one way or the other.

[Sheryl]

Syn Mon Kong company (listed in the MoPH Guidelines) informed me today they chose to drop out of the longstay insurance scheme So the total is 13: the 12 companies listed on the website plus, starting in December, Bangkok Insurance Co.  These are reflected in the updated chart.

[madisongy]

Great posts, with some great information.   My situation.......I have an Aetna policy in the US.   It's fairly comprehensive, covers me while I'm in Thailand, and well exceeds the gov't requirements.   I wrote to Aetna Thailand today to see if they will issue the insurance certificate based on my US policy.  I'm paying about 75,000 baht per year for the policy.  I certainly don't want to increase my costs by 30% or more for a completely unnecessary expense.

I guess the next move is to find out if I can get a "supplemental" policy from a Thai insurance company.  Possibly they'd reduce premiums for those who are already insured?   (what a racket) 

Someone mentioned an O visa as an option for those married to Thai spouse, for avoiding the insurance requirement.  My understanding is that this is only valid for 90 days, right?

Another option is to dump the condo and just stay permanently in the US, and make periodic trips.   I guess old retired people don't add much value to the Thai economy if they're willing to drive us off.

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, madisongy said:

Great posts, with some great information.   My situation.......I have an Aetna policy in the US.   It's fairly comprehensive, covers me while I'm in Thailand, and well exceeds the gov't requirements.   I wrote to Aetna Thailand today to see if they will issue the insurance certificate based on my US policy.  I'm paying about 75,000 baht per year for the policy.  I certainly don't want to increase my costs by 30% or more for a completely unnecessary expense.

I guess the next move is to find out if I can get a "supplemental" policy from a Thai insurance company.  Possibly they'd reduce premiums for those who are already insured?   (what a racket) 

Someone mentioned an O visa as an option for those married to Thai spouse, for avoiding the insurance requirement.  My understanding is that this is only valid for 90 days, right?

Another option is to dump the condo and just stay permanently in the US, and make periodic trips.   I guess old retired people don't add much value to the Thai economy if they're willing to drive us off.

1. I doubt Aetna Thailand will issue the needed certificate but wait and see (and report back here if they do!).

 

2. None of the Immigration approved companies have products for people who already hold insurance. It is a big need/gap. The available products seem to have been developed without any sort of market research into what the target group needs and wants. 

 

3. Re the O visa it will allow only 90 days on entry but you can extend it in country for a year at a time and indeed, no insurance requirement at the present time. Check the Thai Visa subforum for requirements and necessary documents. You'll need to show either income (coming into Thai bank) of at least 40,000 baht a month or lump sum of at least 400,000 Thai baht in a Thai bank account.

[Sheryl]

Sompo company informed me today that their plan is still under development.

[yamadajr]

First of all, thanks to everyone for providing valuable advice on this topic. 

 

I am currently looking at the Thaivivat 400/40 plan for my elderly mother (73 years old).  Other than Pacific Cross, I understand Thaivivat is the only other company with a plan currently available for entry permitted up to 75 years old with lifetime renewal.

 

As such, does anyone have any experiences (positive or negative) with Thaivivat insurance company that you can share?  Many thanks.