Denied entry, sent back to Frankfurt

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

we need to get the word out on this kind of arbitrary treatment

Maybe someone with a bit of clout could come up with a professional sounding letter about what is going on, including some of the reports on here. Then we can get together a massive list of all the half-decent newspapers and websites and just send it out via email, can't imagine it would be that much effort.

[sir charles IV]

Some of you have been used to getting away with circumventing proper long term visas with tourists visas. As mentioned already if you intend to live here follow the rules. If you’re happy to roll the dice sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Accept it!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, sir charles IV said:

if you intend to live here follow the rules

Sounds like he followed all official rules. He was most likely denied entry because an IO abused his power and denied him for an arbitrary reason.

[madmen]

Yet another 1st post drama thread. OP you need to upload a pic of a stamp or what was written in your passport to back up your post, OK?

[EricTh]

Another case of rejected entry, this has been reported almost daily in this forum.

 

Yes, the number of visa/border runners are over. 

 

A tourist visa is strictly to visit places of attraction, shopping etc.

 

It's not to visit girlfriends, wives, or doing digital nomad work. Those aren't really tourists. This includes those who are living in Thailand permanently in order to save cost.

 

There are other visas for that.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by EricTh

[EricTh]

36 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

The rules appear to be some kind of secret. Not only that - they've changed them and appear to be denying entry to plenty of people on METV visas - this is new. They're stepping it up and this could be a big problem for a lot of people returning for the winter. If it's one METV per year then they will catch out many of the winter tourists.

Immigration assume that everyone knows what a genuine tourist does.

 

They probably have too many cases of people in the past coming in on tourist visas but actually doing things that are non-tourist.

 

That said, they shouldn't have approved the METV at the point of application instead of coming to Thailand and getting it rejected. It just isn't fair.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by EricTh

[BestB]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's certainly what it's increasingly looking like, especially at Swampy and DM.

 

do not agree with with both of you guys, those who go on holiday "frequently" are often ones who are doing visa runs to get a new tourist visa.Just like many on ED visas turn out to be teachers or digital nomads

 

If one can afford to go on long holidays and only leave the country for 3-5 days most likely living in the country.

 

Not saying i agree with Immigration ways, just noting what is happening and why so many are being refused

[BestB]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

It seems that they consider one METV more than enough opportunity to explore the country as a tourist, and I suppose in most cases that they are right, especially if you make maximum use of it.  But if you meet a new boyfriend/girlfriend when travelling and try to come back to see them then you're SOL. If you're on a tourist visa and meet someone new, it seems that you have to get married first and think later, or you might never be allowed back in!

If you read all the reports of refusal, they do not have just 1 or 2 METV, but have a prior history as well, perhaps border runs or single entry or ED or something.

 

Notice how all reports mention "passport full of stamps", or "just got new passport"

[EricTh]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

 

 

If one can afford to go on long holidays and only leave the country for 3-5 days most likely living in the country.

 

Not saying i agree with Immigration ways, just noting what is happening and why so many are being refused

 

If you can be in and out of a country for many months on tourist visa, it's quite obvious he's unemployed.

 

Genuine tourists usually stay one or two weeks and then they go back to their country to work.

 

[DavisH]

19 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Sounds like he followed all official rules. He was most likely denied entry because an IO abused his power and denied him for an arbitrary reason.

The OP isn't a genuine tourist....you know the ones. They come, spend money, travel around, then leave. And may return, or not return the following year or asubsequent year. The OP needs a different kind of visa or needs to find a different country. 

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, BestB said:

do not agree with with both of you guys, those who go on holiday "frequently" are often ones who are doing visa runs to get a new tourist visa.Just like many on ED visas turn out to be teachers or digital nomads

 

If one can afford to go on long holidays and only leave the country for 3-5 days most likely living in the country.

 

Not saying i agree with Immigration ways, just noting what is happening and why so many are being refused

Then stop issuing the damn visas in the first place. What is going on now is simply unconscionable.

Edited October 13, 2019 by baboon

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Then stop issuing the damn visas in the first place. What is going on now is simply unconscionable.

not disagreeing with you, but different government departments. Also they make money from issuing visa's so why would they stop. fee is non refundable, person passes all the criteria for the embassy or consulate to issue one, but then immigration sees it otherwise

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

If you read all the reports of refusal, they do not have just 1 or 2 METV, but have a prior history as well, perhaps border runs or single entry or ED or something.

 

Notice how all reports mention "passport full of stamps", or "just got new passport"

 

Before I moved to Thailand permanently a decade plus ago, I used to come here 3 or 4 times a year for vacations and later for preparation ahead of an anticipated move. Every single one of those visits over a period of 4-5 years was on a visa exempt entry. And never once was boo said about it, even as my passport gradually accumulated quite a collection of stamps.

 

Today, if I was trying to repeat that pattern, I doubt very much that it would be allowed by Immigration.

 

And yet all that time, I was living in my home country and holding down a full-time job in my home country. I was 100% a tourist, but one who was making a lot of repeat entries multiple times per year.

 

 

[Isaanbiker]

2 hours ago, DougM said:

Vote with your wallet and take your girlfriend to a different country nearby. If she's not willing to go with you get a new girlfriend. 

 

If Thailand doesn't want your money it's their loss. 

It would be great if he could quickly call his gf, tell her to pack her stuff, and meet her in let's say Vietnam? 

 

 But it's not as easy as you might think. His gf has a family, friends, eventually a child, perhaps a job, or working for the government, etc. 

 

  Now it's not about if she's willing to go with him or not. 

 

It's a strange and challenging situation where we have to understand that we aren't wanted anymore.

 

You only have to take a look at the current OA visa regulations, the insurance policy, and what else that follows sooner or later... 

 

   

Edited October 13, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[brewsterbudgen]

Then stop issuing the damn visas in the first place. What is going on now is simply unconscionable.

It must still be a tiny percentage of tourist visa arrivals that get denied. Unpleasant if it happens to you, but to suggest it's a conscious decision to deny people without reason is without foundation.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

not disagreeing with you, but different government departments. Also they make money from issuing visa's so why would they stop. fee is non refundable, person passes all the criteria for the embassy or consulate to issue one, but then immigration sees it otherwise

Different government departments not talking to each other should not be the concern of the traveller. Nor should they be expected to fund those departments in exchange for nothing but a lottery ticket.

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, nightfox said:

Surprise surprise....Another falang trying to live in Thailand on a tourist visa being denied. When will people learn that the times have change in Thailand. Thai immigration is right saying that your not a tourist as you know your not a tourist, so why are you acting all shocked?. I would get the hint and save yourself the money on the ED visa and choose another country to live in.

 

I wonder what German immigration will say if a Thai citizen will have a history of tourist visas keep coming into Germany????

 

i dont know about germany but i know what the uk would say "welcome to the UK" because we issue 1, 5 and 10 year MULTIPLE ENTRY TOURIST VISAS

 

i cant imagine why a european might then think getting a MULTIPLE ENTRY TOURIST VISA would then get him rejected in Thailand

 

 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Before I moved to Thailand permanently a decade plus ago, I used to come here 3 or 4 times a year for vacations and later for preparation ahead of an anticipated move. Every single one of those visits over a period of 4-5 years was on a visa exempt entry. And never once was boo said about it, even as my passport gradually accumulated quite a collection of stamps.

 

Today, if I was trying to repeat that pattern, I doubt very much that it would be allowed by Immigration.

 

And yet all that time, I was living in my home country and holding down a full-time job in my home country. I was 100% a tourist, but one who was making a lot of repeat entries multiple times per year.

 

 

Indeed times have changed. 18 years ago, i did not need visa at all, i did monthly visa runs and at times., did not even go on a visa run, my passport went.

 

I believe after Thaksin was overthrown is when visa situation started to change and get tougher.

 

Saying that, opening a company with WP 18 years ago use to cost 150 000 baht, this days, all can be done for 50 000.

 

ED visa's were super easy and most schools were visa mills, people abused it and you know how it is now.

 

Some school use to tell "students" when they go to immgration to extend visa, if officer speaks in Thai just tell them i am slow learner. You had idiots who were onto second or third year of ED visa who could not speak or understand anything in Thai

 

People keep finding loop holes to "cheat the system and appears Thai authorities, finally had enough.

 

Again, not saying right or wrong, but it is what it is. Those on METV or SETV but living or want to live in Thailand, under the age of 50 and can not afford Elite, can always open up Thai company and get NON B, yes it cost some money to open and to keep it running, but if they are well off enough to stay in the country and claim they are not working, no doubt they can afford to open a company

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It must still be a tiny percentage of tourist visa arrivals that get denied. Unpleasant if it happens to you, but to suggest it's a conscious decision to deny people without reason is without foundation.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

To suggest visas are being issued which will quite possibly not be honoured is a conscious decision, is with foundation.  There are two sides to that coin.

I don't care which department is in the wrong. It is shocking either way and shame on anyone defending them.

[onera1961]

Hello,
I've been reading this forum for a few days now and I really regret not following the thai visa development on social media/forums for the last months.
 
So just a few days ago I've been denied entry and I can get why: I've had a METV for more than 2 times, never had problems with it and thinking that it gets me through this time. Paid €175 for it, had to go to Frankfurt two times (alreday quite the hassle) and really didn't expect to get denied and send back to Germany. I was very confused, they let me wait for 2-3 hours without saying anything until I realized they actually want to send me back. I wanted to argue a bit, but the answer: you are not a tourist, what do you do here? - I explained I'm just a tourist, have savings and wanting to visit my girlfriend. The answer seemed predefined, already made the decision to kick me out but with the comment I should try again with a non-immigrant visa.
 
Very frustrating, costly and emotional breakdown experience. Well, I get that, IO's aciting arbitrary, rules have become more difficult.
 
Two more notes: my passport was filled with lots of stamps, my dress was just normal: good-looking shirt, jeans. I guess that was both a bad alarm for the IO.
 
Just wanna report another denied entry, and I have to say it scares me a lot. Now I'm a bit indecisive about what to do next. getting a non immigrant ed-visa? - What if they can even deny that again with my current history? What about getting a new passport? - Mine is already almost full and looks "used", so I guess I really increase my chances doing it, allthough that costs 4 weeks more where I can't get back to my girlfriend. Hard decisions.

Fly to KL and enter through land border. The safest bet now.

Sent from my Hi9plus using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BestB]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

Different government departments not talking to each other should not be the concern of the traveller. Nor should they be expected to fund those departments in exchange for nothing but a lottery ticket.

Again not disagreeing with you, but you are telling the wrong person. I am only stating what is happening.

 

But lets look at it this way, what would you say if someone applied for a visa, got it approved, came to Thailand and either

1. carrying drugs

2. does not have any money to support him/herself

3. planning to do something illegal

Immigration at the border are the ones assessing the person and what they think to be their intentions in the country

 

Someone may have borrowed someones money to put into their account to obtain visa and show they have enough funds, but when arrived, they have no money.

 

Someone is coming to work or is working yet on tourist visa.

 

If you watch Australian or UK border patrol TV series, you will note how many arrive with tourist visa's or returning with a new tourist visa but customs or immigration becomes suspicious and after investigation determines people are lying and not genuine tourists but either working or planning to work

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

Again not disagreeing with you, but you are telling the wrong person. I am only stating what is happening.

 

But lets look at it this way, what would you say if someone applied for a visa, got it approved, came to Thailand and either

1. carrying drugs

2. does not have any money to support him/herself

3. planning to do something illegal

Immigration at the border are the ones assessing the person and what they think to be their intentions in the country

 

Someone may have borrowed someones money to put into their account to obtain visa and show they have enough funds, but when arrived, they have no money.

 

Someone is coming to work or is working yet on tourist visa.

 

If you watch Australian or UK border patrol TV series, you will note how many arrive with tourist visa's or returning with a new tourist visa but customs or immigration becomes suspicious and after investigation determines people are lying and not genuine tourists but either working or planning to work

No point in having a consular visa system in the first place if a country is that paranoid. Let the border guards do all the assessing and cut out the middleman.

[BestB]

16 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

It would be great if he could quickly call his gf, tell her to pack her stuff, and meet her in let's say Vietnam? 

 

 But it's not as easy as you might think. His gf has a family, friends, eventually a child, perhaps a job, or working for the government, etc. 

 

  Now it's not about if she's willing to go with him or not. 

 

It's a strange and challenging situation where we have to understand that we aren't wanted anymore.

 

You only have to take a look at the current OA visa regulations, the insurance policy, and what else that follows sooner or later... 

 

   

Why do people insist on posting same kind of <deleted>, we not wanted anymore.

 

Whoever told you that? 

 

The only thing that has changed is authorities are closing all the loop holes to cheat or to game the system.

 

If you were not wanted anymore, you would not be allowed full stop, not randomly but every single person.

 

Those who work illegally are not wanted anymore, those who are living permanently on tourist visa's are not wanted any more. Those who do not have any money in the bank or cannot afford insurance are not wanted anymore.

[SteveK]

11 minutes ago, BestB said:

If you watch Australian or UK border patrol TV series, you will note how many arrive with tourist visa's or returning with a new tourist visa but customs or immigration becomes suspicious and after investigation determines people are lying and not genuine tourists but either working or planning to work

BUT - in those cases, the (Oz/UK) immigration officials conduct a careful and considered investigation to determine the facts. They use their brainpower to consider the facts of each case and are capable of using critical thinking and then making an intelligent decision. The Thai officials refuse to look at paperwork, refuse to acknowledge large amounts of cash, and their mind is made up immediately without listening to anything the traveller has to say. They act on an assumption or suspicion and ignore whatever the traveller says - very different to the UK/Oz who will listen to what you say and look at any paperwork you may be carrying (because they will probably be able to read it or get someone who can).

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by SteveK

[BestB]

12 minutes ago, baboon said:

To suggest visas are being issued which will quite possibly not be honoured is a conscious decision, is with foundation.  There are two sides to that coin.

I don't care which department is in the wrong. It is shocking either way and shame on anyone defending them.

Me, personally not defending them but explaining why this is happening and the reasons for it.

 

Right or wrong is really irrelevant because nothing we can do, it is what it is and have to deal with it

 

 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, SteveK said:

BUT - in those cases, the (Oz/UK) immigration officials conduct a careful and considered investigation to determine the facts. They use their brainpower to consider the facts of each case and are capable of using critical thinking and then making an intelligent decision. The Thai officials refuse to look at paperwork, refuse to acknowledge large amounts of cash, and their mind is made up immediately without listening to anything the traveller has to say. But then if you pay peanuts.....

I agree with you, and this is why on another thread i said Thai way was wrong, but what i was pointing out is how and why people get turned away, same kind of principle and reasoning, just Thai way is Thai way, with very little regard and should/could be changed.

 

 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Me, personally not defending them but explaining why this is happening and the reasons for it.

 

Right or wrong is really irrelevant because nothing we can do, it is what it is and have to deal with it

 

 

Two things folks can do are spreading the word as widely as possible and spending their money elsewhere. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, BestB said:

The only thing that has changed is authorities are closing all the loop holes to cheat or to game the system.

 

Someone who has full insurance coverage via a home country health policy that now, under the latest rule, will not meet the requirements of an O-A visa and instead will have to buy a $2000 USD or so additional Thai policy that provides duplicative and lesser cover than their own home policy is NOT trying to "cheat or game the system."

 

Rather, they're simply being abused by the Thai authorities for no good reason.
 

Edited October 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[SteveK]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

spreading the word as widely as possible 

Someone needs to do this. A few cautionary stories about Thai immigration in some Western papers would help to raise the issue.

[Salerno]

What word ... that they've finally been pulled up for gaming the system?