OA insurance - the issues

[Exploring Thailand]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If I can use your O-A Visa as an example....

So if I am granted an OA-visa on the 29th October, enter Thailand on 30th, leave Thailand on the 1st November, I will be refused re-entry for having no insurance? That seems like a stretch even for for Thailand. In your explanation, you mention that my permission to stay ceases when I exit Thailand, and that I am granted a new permission to stay when I re-enter. OK, but I still have the same visa. Isn't it the case that the requirement for insurance is attached to the visa, not to the permission to stay?

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your entirely missing the point that as from 31/10/19 ANY/ALL entries from a valid O-A Visa will require medical cover. //

That's your own interpretation of the rules,

and IMHO you are wrong...

Wait & See.

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That's your own interpretation of the rules,

and IMHO you are wrong...

Wait & See.

Read very carefully page 11 (last page) of the rules that appertain to entry after 31st October of an O-A Visa issued by a Thai Embassy.

 

Medical Ins. O-A 31-10-19..pdf

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

In your explanation, you mention that my permission to stay ceases when I exit Thailand, and that I am granted a new permission to stay when I re-enter. OK, but I still have the same visa.

Yes, a valid O-A Visa that after 31/10/19 requires proof of medical Insurance attached as a condition to grant entry.

 

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Read very carefully page 11 (last page) of the rules that appertain to entry after 31st October of an O-A Visa issued by a Thai Embassy. //

I didn't see any indication that this applies to O-A visas obtained before 31 October... 

[Exploring Thailand]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, a valid O-A Visa that after 31/10/19 requires proof of medical Insurance attached as a condition to grant entry.

We'll just have to wait and see. As I understand, it is the date of issue of the visa that is the deciding factor. Visas issued before 31/10 do not require insurance to leave and re-enter the country. I appreciate that you read it differently. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see similar differences of opinion between airport IOs, until this settles down.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I didn't see any indication that this applies to O-A visas obtained before 31 October... 

Quote

Therefore when an alien who has been granted a Non Immigrant class O-A Visa from an overseas Royal Thai Embassy with the purpose of retirement (not exceeding 1 year) enters the Kingdom, an Immigration officer shall abide by the following practices for permitting an alien to stay in the Kingdom, effective from October 31st, 2019 onwards.

It has nothing to do with when you obtained the Visa, it has everything to do with the date of entry.

 

There are expats who have already entered Thailand on an O-A Visa prior to the date of 31st October, but still have a valid O-A Visa and intend to exit/re-enter to obtain another 1 year entry just prior to the expiry 'enter before' date of that Visa.

After 31st October the conditions for entry have changed and they will require proof of medical Insurance.

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

We'll just have to wait and see. As I understand, it is the date of issue of the visa that is the deciding factor. Visas issued before 31/10 do not require insurance to leave and re-enter the country. I appreciate that you read it differently. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see similar differences of opinion between airport IOs, until this settles down.

You didn't even have time to read the information I posted in the PDF before replying.

 

Therefore when an alien who has been granted a Non Immigrant class O-A Visa from an overseas Royal Thai Embassy with the purpose of retirement (not exceeding 1 year) enters the Kingdom, an Immigration officer shall abide by the following practices for permitting an alien to stay in the Kingdom, effective from October 31st, 2019 onwards.

 

What part of 'enter' don't you understand.

There is no reference to the date of issue of an O-A Visa, it's about date of entry, which is perhaps your misinterpretation of the statement.

 

You have been warned, disregard at your own cost.

Be prepared to purchase online Insurance at the point of entry (if possible) or be refused entry.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Exploring Thailand]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You didn't even have time to read the information I posted in the PDF before replying.

I read it and I've read it several times before. I think it's badly worded but I believe that what they intend is that everything in the document applies to visas issued from 31st October. There's not much point continuing the back-and-forth; we'll know shortly. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I read it and I've read it several times before. I think it's badly worded but I believe that what they intend is that everything in the document applies to visas issued from 31st October. There's not much point continuing the back-and-forth; we'll know shortly. 

Read post 330 in this topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128878-absolute-latest-from-immigration-on-insurance/page/22/#comments

 

Just look at the various topics on the forums for further evidence.

The Insurance requirement even applies to extensions based on retirement from expats who entered on a Non O-A Visa in 2008.

[Exploring Thailand]

 

12 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Read post 330 in this topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1128878-absolute-latest-from-immigration-on-insurance/page/22/#comments

 

Just look at the various topics on the forums for further evidence.

The Insurance requirement even applies to extensions based on retirement from expats who entered on a Non O-A Visa in 2008.

 

I'm aware of that as I said in my post to you above, quoted below. We're really not going convince each other or get to the bottom of it until people start testing it or more information comes to light. Best just to wait and see. I don't have anything to lose by doing that. I'm not buying insurance for the OA. If I have to buy it at some later date, so be it.

 

3 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

I'm not aware of that. As far as I know, that has not been confirmed. In fact, I believe I should theoretically be able to exit and re-enter without insurance, because the OA-visa will be dated prior to 31st Oct. The reports I've seen of people being told otherwise were from people who had applied for an extension of stay after the O-A had expired. Though, I stand to be corrected on any of that, because it all seems to be very much up in the air at the moment.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Exploring Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What part of 'enter' don't you understand.

There is no reference to the date of issue of an O-A Visa, it's about date of entry, which is perhaps your misinterpretation of the statement.

 

I don't get why various folks keep talking about/focusing on the date an O-A visa was issued, being either before Oct. 31 or after that date, in terms of what Thai Immigration is going to do.

 

In my reading of the various Immigration order/policy documents, like yours, I never see ANY mention of changes taking effect for visas issued after a certain date. I DO see mention of insurance being required for all O-A entries into Thailand starting from Oct. 31 onward....

 

Obviously, the Embassies and Consulates are apparently going to start requiring insurance proof to issue new O-As starting Oct. 31. But the Embasssies and Consulates are MFA, not Immigration. And Immigration has been pretty darned clear in their documents talking about how they're going to enforce ENTRIES to Thailand on O-As starting from Oct. 31.

 

[SpokaneAl]

Be aware.
Regardless of what prior date the Visa was issued, if you enter on an O-A Visa on or after 31st October, then proof of medical Insurance will be required.
 
 

That is not a fact. I asked the LA Thai Consulate this precise question and here is their response:

If your visa hasn't expired then you do not have to worry. This only affect if you apply the Non-OA Visa after Oct. 31


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[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, SpokaneAl said:

That is not a fact. I asked the LA Thai Consulate this precise question and here is their response:

I hope you got their name.

 

1 hour ago, SpokaneAl said:

If your visa hasn't expired then you do not have to worry. This only affect if you apply the Non-OA Visa after Oct. 31

Please ask the LA Consulate to provide a link to that information.

Police orders clearly state effective Oct 31st you will require medical Insurance to enter Thailand on an O-A Visa. There is no mention of dates concerning when it was issued, only the date of entry.

[SpokaneAl]

Please ask the LA Consulate to provide a link to that information.
Police orders clearly state effective Oct 31st you will require medical Insurance to enter Thailand on an O-A Visa. There is no mention of dates concerning when it was issued, only the date of entry.

What you see as clear, I see as a bit confusing with less than excellent sentence structure which makes me wonder about the precision of the translation.

Each year we spend our winters in Thailand via a non imm o-a visa, which, as someone who takes great pains to plan and prepare, I purchased a few months ago. We, of course have tickets, a home and a car of our own etc and depart on October 30, arriving in Thailand on October 31, so you can probably imagine my stress over this late change.

We have very solid insurance and with only three weeks until departure am attempting to get the insurance form complete. I am retired US military, and as a result, my insurance has no maximum amounts, terms etc and after a deductible, is basically unlimited.

The size of our insurance provider is massive, bureaucratic and convoluted. Additionally, even if I was willing to spend how every many thousands of dollars on a new policy, at my age I would require a full physical and underwriter review, which I think would be just about impossible to accomplish in three weeks time.

So I am pursuing the completion of the letter, and will bring a copy of LA Thai Consulate email with me and will hope for the best. My wife and I are prepared to tell our story to immigration in the hopes they will just let us through the door.


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[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

What you see as clear, I see as a bit confusing with less than excellent sentence structure which makes me wonder about the precision of the translation.

Each year we spend our winters in Thailand via a non imm o-a visa, which, as someone who takes great pains to plan and prepare, I purchased a few months ago. We, of course have tickets, a home and a car of our own etc and depart on October 30, arriving in Thailand on October 31, so you can probably imagine my stress over this late change.

We have very solid insurance and with only three weeks until departure am attempting to get the insurance form complete. I am retired US military, and as a result, my insurance has no maximum amounts, terms etc and after a deductible, is basically unlimited.

The size of our insurance provider is massive, bureaucratic and convoluted. Additionally, even if I was willing to spend how every many thousands of dollars on a new policy, at my age I would require a full physical and underwriter review, which I think would be just about impossible to accomplish in three weeks time.

So I am pursuing the completion of the letter, and will bring a copy of LA Thai Consulate email with me and will hope for the best. My wife and I are prepared to tell our story to immigration in the hopes they will just let us through the door.


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I hope your trip goes well, are you flying in via another local country, I like to prepare as well, I would get a Visa for the transit country, if it's an alternative. Just in case!

I think they would be better just selling and insurance certificate for 1000 baht each, as potentially, and especially in your case you probably may not gain any duplicate cover by purchasing the Thai insurance. General condition of most Thai insurance is that you have to be in Thailand for more than 6 month out of 12! Over and above it's other limitations, (see the small print).

I am not in Thailand continuously and a few months ago, enquired about local insurance (over and above travel insurance, a small OPD self financing fund, similar to the compulsory insurance provision value, and a couple of other small amount of Thai coverage that I would have doubts about anyway). The response was that they probably could not offer me a policy...

It would be useful to know what reaction you get to their certificate, if it were simply confirming the coverage it may have been plausible, but including it conforms to a Thai Cabinet resolution ????. It shouts of a very insular design.

Edited October 20, 2019 by UKresonant

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Police orders clearly state effective Oct 31st you will require medical Insurance to enter Thailand on an O-A Visa. There is no mention of dates concerning when it was issued, only the date of entry.

I certainly do not agree with you.

The  entire order state effective October 31.

There is this in order for entries to that certainly indicates is only for new visas.

 

How would there be a remark about insurance any OA visa unless it was issued after October 31st.

Two and onward in that set of instructions is a continuation of one for after the first entry with a new visa.

[Tanoshi]

24 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I certainly do not agree with you.

The  entire order state effective October 31.

There is this in order for entries to that certainly indicates is only for new visas.

 

How would there be a remark about insurance any OA visa unless it was issued after October 31st.

Two and onward in that set of instructions is a continuation of one for after the first entry with a newvisa.

And from 31st October, Insurance will be required to enter Thailand, or apply for an extension based on an O-A entry, regardless of when the Visa was issued.

 

There is nothing that states effective for Visas issued on 31st October onwards.

It clearly states 'entry' from 31st Oct onwards.

 

You omitted the very important paragraph of the instructions to which 1,2,3 and 4 apply.

Quote

Therefore when an alien has been granted Non Immigrant Visa class O-A from an overseas Royal Thai Embassy with the purpose of Retirement (not exceeding one year) enters the Kingdom, an Immigration officer shall abide by the following practices for permitting an alien to stay in the Kingdom, effective from October 31st 2019 onwards.

Has been - past tense, prior to.

Enters the Kingdom - not issue of Visa.

Effective from 31st October 2019.

[SpokaneAl]

Has been - past tense, prior to.
Enters the Kingdom - not issue of Visa.
Effective from 31st October 2019.

How do you explain the part that Joe highlighted concerning checking the remarks on the visa? What remarks would there be to check on my non imm o-a visa, that I bought a few months ago?


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[Max69xl]

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I hope you got their name.

 

Please ask the LA Consulate to provide a link to that information.

Police orders clearly state effective Oct 31st you will require medical Insurance to enter Thailand on an O-A Visa. There is no mention of dates concerning when it was issued, only the date of entry.

You are wrong. No insurance needed for an O-A Visa issued before October 31. It's not about the date you enter Thailand. 

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

How do you explain the part that Joe highlighted concerning checking the remarks on the visa? What remarks would there be to check on my non imm o-a visa, that I bought a few months ago?


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A certificate from you Insurer.

 

London are already advising and asking for proof of Insurance and putting notations on O-A Visa if your entering from 31st onwards. 

Ask yourself why London have already changed the requirements for the O-A Visa, to include the request for proof of Insurance, if as some assume it only affects Visas issued from 31st Oct onwards.

[SpokaneAl]

A certificate from you Insurer.  

London are already advising and asking for proof of Insurance and putting notations on O-A Visa if your entering from 31st onwards. 

Ask yourself why London have already changed the requirements for the O-A Visa, to include the request for proof of Insurance, if as some assume it only affects Visas issued from 31st Oct onwards.

 

 

According to you, London is apparently saying one needs medical insurance proof for anyone entering Thailand after October 30 and LA, who issued my visa, tells me specifically not to worry because my visa was issued prior to October 31.

 

I guess we won’t know who is correct until October 31.

 

 

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[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You are wrong. No insurance needed for an O-A Visa issued before October 31. It's not about the date you enter Thailand. 

So why are CW and CM informing it's required for extensions based on retirement from an O-A entry, from 31st October, even if that Visa was issued in 2010 and expired years ago.

 

[SpokaneAl]

So why are CW and CM informing it's required for extensions based on retirement from an O-A entry, from 31st October, even if that Visa was issued in 2010 and expired years ago.
 

Aren’t you referring to paragraphs 2 and 3, which are not the issue with me and my non imm that I have yet to use?


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[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

So why are CW and CM informing it's required for extensions based on retirement from an O-A entry, from 31st October, even if that Visa was issued in 2010 and expired years ago.

 

I just got an OA in Sept - 19, I figure I can travel in and out of Thailand for at least the first year without scrutiny, but after that all bets are off. It will be quite interesting to see the results.

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

We have very solid insurance and with only three weeks until departure am attempting to get the insurance form complete.

 

23 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

LA, who issued my visa, tells me specifically not to worry because my visa was issued prior to October 31.

If you have Insurance and LA are correct, why are you attempting to get the Insurance form (certificate) complete.

[SpokaneAl]

If you have Insurance and LA are correct, why are you attempting to get the Insurance form (certificate) complete.

Just cautious and I won’t completely relax until I am on the other side of the immigration officer. And in that I still have a week and a half before departing/arriving it is worth attempting, and because I will replicate the entire process a year from now.

We can debate back and forth here but I am the one who will be arriving at Suvarnabhumi Airport on October 31.


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[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

And from 31st October, Insurance will be required to enter Thailand, or apply for an extension based on an O-A entry, regardless of when the Visa was issued.

You have made up your mind about it so I will not try to change it.

But if it was retroactive they would of stated that. Another point is that immigration has never issued orders that are retroactive.

Also orders that are a major change have had a grace period for those on extensions already. It would be the same for this case for visa entries.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

We can debate back and forth here but I am the one who will be arriving at Suvarnabhumi Airport on October 31.

 

I certainly hope your arrival goes smoothly, and it's probably good that you're arriving on the very first day of the new insurance regime, and not later...  So even IF Immigration does start enforcing the insurance requirement against prior O-As as their own policy seems to say they will, hopefully they'd cut you some slack.

 

For me personally, though, the reason I wouldn't take the LA Consulate's guidance to the bank quite yet is they're NOT Immigration. They're MFA and deal with visas, not Immigration entries. So I certainly believe they know what they're going to be doing with visa applications come Oct. 31. But I'm less confident they clearly know what Immigration is going to be doing with previously issued O-A entries come Oct. 31.

 

And, add into the mix, Pib's very clear report the other day from talking with an Immigration supervisor at CW BKK Immigration indicating that they'll be requiring insurance for all O-A based extension of stay applications that come their way starting Oct. 31... Not just for future issued O-As and related extensions.

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[steve187]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

London are already advising and asking for proof of Insurance and putting notations on O-A Visa if your entering from 31st onwards. 

Ask yourself why London have already changed the requirements for the O-A Visa, to include the request for proof of Insurance, if as some assume it only affects Visas issued from 31st Oct onwards.

where is the proof to back up that claim