OA insurance - the issues

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, oznomad said:

Mine is 6 months, it used to be 12 months. Expat insurance?? The matter at hand is health insurance, which is more than adequately covered by my card insurance, plus I get travel parts as well.

The matter at hand is also the permitted permission of stay on entry, which is relevant to the expiry date of any valid Insurance.

Therefore even with a Non O-A and an acceptable 6 month medical Insurance policy, your permitted length of stay would be limited to just that …… 6 months.

[isaanistical]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The matter at hand is also the permitted permission of stay on entry, which is relevant to the expiry date of any valid Insurance.

Therefore even with a Non O-A and an acceptable 6 month medical Insurance policy, your permitted length of stay would be limited to just that …… 6 months.

and with any valid insurance, there's the tiny issue of aligning its renewal date with the renewal/replacement of the visa...............

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, glegolo said:

I do not fully grasp all the details in this thing with insurance and Non Immigrant O-A VISA but to my own understanding I thought that if I have (like you have) an insurance covering the demand from the Imiigration, I do NOT need to issue/apply for another new one?????

 

I am wrong??

glegolo

 

You may well be. It is not clear but looks like they will accept only policies from 13 Thai-based companies (out of more than 50 that are here) and either none from foreign companies or from foreign companies only in the first year.

[Don Mega]

30 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

 

 

Related issue - what's the deal with people on work permits in LoS? Surely they need insurance, so how is that regulated? And could the same regulation (must be ok as you never hear wp-holders squealing like O-A holders at present) be adapted for other visa categories?

Social security.

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

My policy is on the list of Thai companies but includes travel cover (up to 3 months).

 

Related issue - what's the deal with people on work permits in LoS? Surely they need insurance, so how is that regulated? And could the same regulation (must be ok as you never hear wp-holders squealing like O-A holders at present) be adapted for other visa categories?

 

Most people on a work permit are covered by Thai Social Security (with payroll deductions to pay for the cover). . Which has no applicability to retirees unless they were previously covered by it through employment, in which case they can continue the cover through self-payments.

[Momofarang]

Not everyone is on TV and follows what's happening in the Immigration madhouse. So it will be interesting to see people turning up for extension, after Oct. 31, with only a few days left, being sent back with "Go, get an insurance!"

Edited October 14, 2019 by Momofarang

[oznomad]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Just a question. If indeed I had to obtain the insurance from Thai company would I be covered when outside of los. I travel a lot to Vietnam and Japan. What happens if I break leg in Osaka.

This is a constructive list that hopefully will be read by, or forwarded to, the decision makers.

It's not a moan session, a place to ask questions, or to write your life story.

Please post the issues you see with the compulsory insurance, in a brief manner.

[roobaa01]

3 hours ago, Arndt777 said:

Good idea!

 

For me 1.  (already existing insurance coverage) is an issue too. I have since for than 20 years a health insurance with AXA in Germany. It has international and unlimited coverage. But it will not be accepted by Thai authorities, although its coverage is much more better than all offers from the Thai companies.

 

Issue no. 2 is the regulation, that premium increases are allowed following claims experience, increasing age and health condition. This is opening the door for premium increases when you getting older and when you had a claim (perhaps because of a heart attack). This makes the premium development for you as a policy holder unpredictable. At my German health insurance with AXA premium increases are only allowed, if the claims experience of all insured is getting worse.

the issue is AXA insurance will be accepted for it is accredited by the concerned thai ministry for thailand.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, Arndt777 said:

Good idea!

 

For me 1.  (already existing insurance coverage) is an issue too. I have since for than 20 years a health insurance with AXA in Germany. It has international and unlimited coverage. But it will not be accepted by Thai authorities, although its coverage is much more better than all offers from the Thai companies.

 

Issue no. 2 is the regulation, that premium increases are allowed following claims experience, increasing age and health condition. This is opening the door for premium increases when you getting older and when you had a claim (perhaps because of a heart attack). This makes the premium development for you as a policy holder unpredictable. At my German health insurance with AXA premium increases are only allowed, if the claims experience of all insured is getting worse.

I think AXA is on the approved insurers list.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, oznomad said:

This is a constructive list that hopefully will be read by, or forwarded to, the decision makers.

It's not a moan session, a place to ask questions, or to write your life story.

Please post the issues you see with the compulsory insurance, in a brief manner.

 

Not to squelch your optimism, but there is no mechanism for forwarding it to decision makers and I much doubt they read TVF.

 

I think it is reasonable to assume they do not know many of the issues. Unfortunately, I do not see anyway we can bring them up, unless some one wants to write a  letter to one or more newspapers. . Some will however be pursued/are being pursued by locally based insurers and brokers.

 

If I had to list the problems, in order  of severity I would say:

 

#1 - No provision for people unable to get insurance due to age or pre-exisitng conditions. None of the companies listed will enroll  a person aged 75 or above and I doubt any will insure someone with significant pre-exisitng conditions.

 

#2 - the OPD requirement is unnecessary and substantially raised premiums , while the inpatient requirement is too low to ensure people can pay their bills. . In addition, since very few existing policies offer 40K OPD this necessitates creation of new products solely for the longstay visa which is not cost effective. The policy will  actually increase the number of foreigners unable to pay their hospital bills by forcing people to forfeit good policies for very inadequate, poorly designed ones that may also  exclude many of their medical problems.

 

3 - No provision for people who have access to free health care in Thailand through SS or US military program.  Requiring such to buy private insurance makes no sense.

 

4 -  related to #2 above, no clear provision for people who already have excellent coverage from foreign firms or from Thai firms not on the "list".  Existing policies will include cover for medical conditions that developed after the policy was issued. A new policy, if one can even be gotten, will  exclude such conditions. So Immigration is in effect asking people with say 30 million baht coverage or more that includes all conditions to drop their policy and replace it with one that excludes medical problems that they have and also offers only 400,000 coverage for hospitalization, one can expect a big increase in the very problem this new policy was supposed to solve.

 

[blackcab]

57 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

Related issue - what's the deal with people on work permits in LoS? Surely they need insurance, so how is that regulated? And could the same regulation (must be ok as you never hear wp-holders squealing like O-A holders at present) be adapted for other visa categories?

 

Work permit holders that work in businesses and pay Social Fund contributions are covered by the Thai Social Fund system, the same as Thai citizens.

 

I would imagine that work permit holders in this category world be the last to be required to have insurance as the Thai government already covers them.

 

I'm not entirely sure if teachers with work permits are covered in the same way however.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Work permit holders that work in businesses and pay Social Fund contributions are covered by the Thai Social Fund system, the same as Thai citizens.

 

I would imagine that work permit holders in this category world be the last to be required to have insurance as the Thai government already covers them.

 

I'm not entirely sure if teachers with work permits are covered in the same way however.

 

Private schools are for some reason exempted under the SS law. No idea why and it is a disservice to those who teach in them.

[Sheryl]

35 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

the issue is AXA insurance will be accepted for it is accredited by the concerned thai ministry for thailand.

 

wbr

roobaa01

AXA Thailand is on the list. NOT AXA Global.

 

It would need to be explored with them whether they would issue a certificate, under their letterhead, for an international AXA policy.  I expect they could do so if they wished but given that they have a vested interest in selling their own policies.....

 

Should certainly give it a try, though

[ICELANDMAN]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Most people on a work permit are covered by Thai Social Security (with payroll deductions to pay for the cover). . Which has no applicability to retirees unless they were previously covered by it through employment, in which case they can continue the cover through self-payments.

This is the best rational proposal expatriate can also with Thai Social Security that I would be convinced that the majority in my opinion expatriate would willingly accept if it were applied by the government

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by ICELANDMAN

[Genericnic]

4 hours ago, oznomad said:

Ok, what we want here are issues based on facts. Not speculations, guesses, questions etc.

Plenty of other threads on the topic for those.

 

I'll give it a go.

 

As part of my retirement from the State of Texas, I have insurance provided by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. BCBS is a major insurance provider in the US. Unlike the required limits of the Thai policies of 40k outpatient coverage and 400k inpatient coverage, I have unlimited coverage - subject to a small deductible and a small co-insurance payment. And my coverage does not expire - at least until I do. The cost of my insurance is US$0 per year as opposed to the silly money that the Thai insurers want. 

 

And so the issue: As we know, immigration has provided a form that can be used by foreign insurers to certify compliance with the coverage requirements. The issue is that it requires the signature of two directors of the insurer to sign off on it. That is not going to happen in the U.S. and my guess it will not happen in any developed country. I'm pretty sure that if the same requirement were imposed on insurance from Thailand for Thais traveling to other countries, they would not be able to get Thai directors to sign similar forms either. 

 

David

[Genericnic]

4 hours ago, Don Mega said:

they should accept a foreign insurance certificate.

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

True, they should but if you can find a couple of directors for BCBS to sign of on the Overseas Insurance Certificate, the drinks are on me.

 

David

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, Genericnic said:

I'll give it a go.

 

As part of my retirement from the State of Texas, I have insurance provided by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. BCBS is a major insurance provider in the US. Unlike the required limits of the Thai policies of 40k outpatient coverage and 400k inpatient coverage, I have unlimited coverage - subject to a small deductible and a small co-insurance payment. And my coverage does not expire - at least until I do. The cost of my insurance is US$0 per year as opposed to the silly money that the Thai insurers want. 

 

And so the issue: As we know, immigration has provided a form that can be used by foreign insurers to certify compliance with the coverage requirements. The issue is that it requires the signature of two directors of the insurer to sign off on it. That is not going to happen in the U.S. and my guess it will not happen in any developed country. I'm pretty sure that if the same requirement were imposed on insurance from Thailand for Thais traveling to other countries, they would not be able to get Thai directors to sign similar forms either. 

 

David

Never say never till you try, I'm in the same boat with my fed retirement. BCBS will cost me $230./mo which I'm happy to pay. I got my OA this past Sept so hopefully a while before I have to address this issue.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

You may well be. It is not clear but looks like they will accept only policies from 13 Thai-based companies (out of more than 50 that are here) and either none from foreign companies or from foreign companies only in the first year.

Tack Sheryl (means thank you in swedish)

 

glegolo

[patinchis]

Not incorrect. You may have a way better than average insurance, but just have a look on Google.
Example:
"Credit card travel insurance policies typically only cover trips of up to a certain length (e.g. 31 days or 3 months), so check your PDS before assuming your trip would be covered." from here.

I have 186 days in my travel insurance ,one continuous stay of that length or 45 days each trip.....lloyds UK


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[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, oznomad said:

This is a constructive list that hopefully will be read by, or forwarded to, the decision makers.

It's not a moan session, a place to ask questions, or to write your life story.

Please post the issues you see with the compulsory insurance, in a brief manner.

Say what! My comment was a genuine concern about need for possible need for medical care outside of Thailand. 

Who made you a mod of a thread even if in fact your the op.

[Sheryl]

World Nomads has an age 65 cut-off.

So do many of the approved companies on the Imm list!!!

And many of them will cancel coverage on a policy taken out before then once you turn 70/75.



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[Sheryl]

I have a UK expat insurance policy in its 5th year now. It covers me for 13 million Baht for inpatient but nothing for outpatient. My premium is about 50% of the 'recommended' Thai policies being pushed on us.

 

Is it possible to buy a policy (in Thailand or elswhere),  solely to cover outpatient costs?

 

If I ask my insurer to amend they will likely amend it, but at a wholly disproportionate cost.

 

 

Not possible as far as I know to get OPD only policy.

 

Anyway it is not looking favorabke for foreign policies to be accepted beyond at best first year.

 

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[Sheryl]

Just a question. If indeed I had to obtain the insurance from Thai company would I be covered when outside of los. I travel a lot to Vietnam and Japan. What happens if I break leg in Osaka.

Varies with the policy. Most will cover emergencies out of country but of course only to the maximum of the policy. 400k won't go very far in Osaka....nor in Thailand for that matter.

 

 

 

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[Sheryl]

I'll give it a go.

 

As part of my retirement from the State of Texas, I have insurance provided by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. BCBS is a major insurance provider in the US. Unlike the required limits of the Thai policies of 40k outpatient coverage and 400k inpatient coverage, I have unlimited coverage - subject to a small deductible and a small co-insurance payment. And my coverage does not expire - at least until I do. The cost of my insurance is US$0 per year as opposed to the silly money that the Thai insurers want. 

 

And so the issue: As we know, immigration has provided a form that can be used by foreign insurers to certify compliance with the coverage requirements. The issue is that it requires the signature of two directors of the insurer to sign off on it. That is not going to happen in the U.S. and my guess it will not happen in any developed country. I'm pretty sure that if the same requirement were imposed on insurance from Thailand for Thais traveling to other countries, they would not be able to get Thai directors to sign similar forms either. 

 

David

This is not the only issue.

 

The website says the form can only be used for the first entry and after that have to buy local insurance. This is not an official Imm website it is website of Thai insurance agencies so keep that in mind.

 

The police order makes no mention of foreign insurance qualifying and indeed in places seems to say insurance can only be from the companies on the website.

 

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[madmen]

easy solution especially those that will need to cancel existing policies with much better cooverage

If its under 400k no probs but its a big accident and the bill is 3 million just hand them your insurance card and tell them to collect the balance from immigration.. in other words don't pay the balance, in reality this is what will happen anyway

[uncleeagle]

There are many legitimate issues...but it doesnt matter...fairness doesnt matter, logic doesnt matter, evidence doesnt matter, reasonableness doesnt matter, honesty doesnt matter...thai government and immigration want us out...mostly for reasons of xenophobia, racism, small and nasty mindedness etc...thats the conclusion ive come to....and they are going to get what they want or they are going to force us (meaning the certain groups of people they cleary despise) all to pay ever more extortionate fees and suffer ever more unpleasant and time consuming and stressful processes. its time to make plans to get out.

 

 

[Howiehotspur]

6 hours ago, Don Mega said:

" First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. "

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

 

 

Say for example your currently on a years extension and your out of the country with a re entry permit ...you won’t be able to get that ‘ THAI ‘ companies insurance until you get back into the country surely , so how do you get passed immigration on arrival ? .. 

[oznomad]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Not to squelch your optimism, but there is no mechanism for forwarding it to decision makers and I much doubt they read TVF.

Thanks for your list Sheryl.

They are the types of points I was after, and the reason for this thread.

Mechanisms, or substitutes for them, can be made. 

[oznomad]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Say what! My comment was a genuine concern about need for possible need for medical care outside of Thailand. 

Who made you a mod of a thread even if in fact your the op.

Me.

I raised the topic to gather information, in the hope of presenting it to someone near the top of the food chain, that is probably not aware of the points being made.

I reckon I was pretty clear what the thread is about, but nooooo.

Tangents, off topic comments and questions, speculation, etc.

Plenty of other threads on OA insurance for all that.

 

[Sheryl]

Say for example your currently on a years extension and your out of the country with a re entry permit ...you won’t be able to get that ‘ THAI ‘ companies insurance until you get back into the country surely , so how do you get passed immigration on arrival ? .. 

Actually I think you can buy these policies, or at least some of them, online.

 

But re-entering on a re-entry permit does not entail a new permission of stay so would not trigger this.

 

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