OA insurance - the issues

[Momofarang]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

What rubbish, I entered on an OA then switched to a marriage extension. You extend your stay not the visa you arrived on. Immigration does not and cannot extend a visa.

NO VISA is ever extended.

Maybe "Lovethailandelite" has a vested interest in this disinformation?

 

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The Police order relates to an O-A visa and extensions 'of'. At the end of the day, it can be spun how people care to look at it. Cold reality, is the fact that an O-A isn't allowed to be extended for any reason other than retirement. If it was, section 2.18 would be included alongside section 2.22. I would say with 99% certainty that those people that have managed to get an extension of marriage on an O-A, will have a problem after the 31st October when entering the country and the annotation of the original 0-A is seen.
Lets see if I am right.

I beg to differ, because they'll be entering on an extension based on marriage with a re-entry permit.

The marriage extension criteria is under section 2.18, of which there is no mention of any requirement of medical Insurance.

The requirement only applies to those on an O-A Visa entry, who extend under section 2.22 on the basis of retirement.

 

The million dollar question still hasn't been answer to my satisfaction, which is;

Will the Insurance requirement apply to those who previously entered on a Non O-A, but acquired extensions based on retirement before 31st October. The amended orders don't answer that directly.

I can interpret it both ways.

 

As usual we'll have to wait until reports come in after 31st October for those leaving/re-entering on extensions from a previously expired Non O-A Visa.

 

You may be correct or totally wrong, as may I.

Due to lack of clarity, opinions will differ, until we get first hand reports after 31st October.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, Momofarang said:

Maybe "Lovethailandelite" has a vested interest in this disinformation?

 

If you are struggling to understand, it's best to say nothing.

[gaviny]

Lol after all these years I now know what A stands for.

The O-A is specific to long stay and being over 50 agreed, the proof of which is submitted to a Thai Embassy/Consulate to obtain the Visa.
The Non O can also be issued specific for being over 50.
The only difference between an 'O' and 'O-A' is the permitted length of stay.
'O' is for 'other', 'A' is for 'annual'.
 
Annual Extensions are also issued for specific reasons.
Retirement - must be over 50 and granted a Non Imm class Visa.
Marriage - must have been granted a Non Imm class Visa
 
Police orders do not state a specific Visa class, other than Non Imm type.
 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

No. You cannot go from an 0-A to an extension for being married. Some people have said they have, I believe that was a mistake by the immigration office and they should never of allowed it. An O-A is a visa class of it's own for being over 50 years old. The original entry on the O-A will be noted.

Where, in the known universe is such a statement written, documented, noted, ????????

 

You are just making <deleted> up to suit your narrative.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Maybe "Lovethailandelite" has a vested interest in this disinformation?

 

It isn't disinformation, it's a difference in opinion.

My opinion could be totally wrong.

[Sheryl]

I was issued (sold) my O-A visa on certain conditions, i.e Unlimited entries for  the first 12 months with a further 12 months extension provided i left and returned before it expires. If i want to exit and re enter during the 12 month extension, a re entry visa must be bought before leaving. Nothing including health insurance  was required. So will immigration honour the terms of my O-A visa as issued to me. 

You are certainly fine for the duration of the permission of stay you already have (including any departure and return under a re-entry pemit after the visa has expired but during the permission to stay period).

If the Visa had not yet expired and you leave and re-enter to get a new permission of stay, there are different interpretations and we really need to wait and see how the order is being applied come 31 October.

If it were me and if the visa expiration was coming up soon I would consider making a re-entry prior to the 31st October in order to buy time while things sort out.



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[Max69xl]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:56 AM, Pattaya46 said:

I don't know which card you have, but most travel insurances associated to credit cards have strong limitations, and mainly rarely work for trips longer than 30, 60 or 90 days at best.

They are "travel" insurances, not "expat" insurance.

If a foreign insurance meets the requirements it will be accepted. A normal travel insurance has a higher coverage than the insurances bought in Thailand. The terminoligy IPD and OPD are not often used overseas.

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It isn't disinformation, it's a difference in opinion.

My opinion could be totally wrong.

I agree with you. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. I wonder if he actually stays in Thailand long term.

[Sheryl]

How about marriage based extensions of stay? The police order doesn't show (yet?) any new requirement. I came under Non O-A, but have always extended under "Thai Wife".

There has bren no amendment to requirements for extension of stay based on marriage.

To be absolutely safe given that your original visa is O-A, and it is likely Imm offices will be just as confused and have just as many differing interpretations as members on this board have, if it were me I would do my next extension as early as possible so that if there is an issue about th O-A there is time to leave and get an O visa in a neighboring country and come back in on that. Probably won't have to do this, but better safe than sorry.

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[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It isn't disinformation, it's a difference in opinion.

My opinion could be totally wrong.

With respect, your opinion is usually one of the correct ones.

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

The only requirement to obtain an extension based on marriage or retirement in terms of Visa class is that it must be of the Non Immigrant type.

Orders don't define whether that be an 'O' 'O-A' 'B' or 'ED' Visa and it is quite often down to Immigrations discretion to decide whether to grant an extension from other than the standard Non 'O' type Visa class. 

The Minister was quoted in an interview with Reuters as saying it will be everyone over 50 and on extensions as well. So you can bet the farm that it is in action to be updated to include all long term stayers over 50 and then next to include all marriage and family. Too big of a cash cow making the ones at the trough glands salivate.

[Sheryl]

No, the insurer MUST be one of the eight or nine approved Thai insurance companies ONLY, overseas insurers are not permitted.

This point is not completely clear yet.

Local brokers are seeking clarification.

Since all but 1 of those 13 companies will not issue new policies to people over 65 and the remaining one will go only up to 74 (based on info currently available), and there will also almost surely be applicants refused cover because of pre-existing conditions, I think something is going to have to give. There are international insurers who will issue policies to people over 75 and, of course, many of the people who will not be able to get insurance from these companies already hold lifetime policies.

It is not in government's interest to allow in older, uninsured people, but it also is not in their interests to keep out people who are ineligible for coverage by the 13 vompanies but already covered by a foreign policy or Thai SS.

The question is, how long will it take them to figure out glthis is happening.

It appears to me that Imm has left it to the TGIA to manage the task if ensuring people can get policies. TGIA is failing to do so and also has a clear vested interest which skews their policies. As long as it ulis just "see the website", foreign policies won't be allowed because TGIA companies see it as competition. TI would have to step in with a clear policy.



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[Max69xl]

33 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I beg to differ, because they'll be entering on an extension based on marriage with a re-entry permit.

The marriage extension criteria is under section 2.18, of which there is no mention of any requirement of medical Insurance.

The requirement only applies to those on an O-A Visa entry, who extend under section 2.22 on the basis of retirement.

 

The million dollar question still hasn't been answer to my satisfaction, which is;

Will the Insurance requirement apply to those who previously entered on a Non O-A, but acquired extensions based on retirement before 31st October. The amended orders don't answer that directly.

I can interpret it both ways.

 

As usual we'll have to wait until reports come in after 31st October for those leaving/re-entering on extensions from a previously expired Non O-A Visa.

 

You may be correct or totally wrong, as may I.

Due to lack of clarity, opinions will differ, until we get first hand reports after 31st October.

The police order only mentions O-A Visas issued from October 31, not before. 

[baansgr]

21 hours ago, Saltire said:

I have a UK expat insurance policy in its 5th year now. It covers me for 13 million Baht for inpatient but nothing for outpatient. My premium is about 50% of the 'recommended' Thai policies being pushed on us.

 

Is it possible to buy a policy (in Thailand or elswhere),  solely to cover outpatient costs?

 

If I ask my insurer to amend they will likely amend it, but at a wholly disproportionate cost.

 

 

I'd like to know which company offers 13mil at 50% , the Thai company's are offering basic complient at 22k....really only 11k premium for 13mil?

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The million dollar question still hasn't been answer to my satisfaction, which is;

Will the Insurance requirement apply to those who previously entered on a Non O-A, but acquired extensions based on retirement before 31st October. The amended orders don't answer that directly.

I can interpret it both ways.

I think the last page in the order (in English or the Thai pages) makes it clear it is only for entries to the country with a OA visa issued after October 31st.. It in no way applies to extension of stay.

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

My opinion could be totally wrong.

It is not just a matter of opinion for many people it is a ingrained bias that is affecting their opinions. They expect everything new to be bad for them that is issued by immigration. 

There are also some people that will just say and write things to stir things up and then other that are just putting out false info.

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

The Minister was quoted in an interview with Reuters as saying it will be everyone over 50 and on extensions as well. So you can bet the farm that it is in action to be updated to include all long term stayers over 50 and then next to include all marriage and family. Too big of a cash cow making the ones at the trough glands salivate.

The minister is not working at immigration and did not read the police order issued in April. It clearly states ONLY O-A Visas from October 31 2019. Don't be so paranoid. No one knows what will happen in the future,but we're not there yet. 

[Sheryl]

52 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If a foreign insurance meets the requirements it will be accepted. A normal travel insurance has a higher coverage than the insurances bought in Thailand. The terminoligy IPD and OPD are not often used overseas.

Unfortunately that is far from clear.

The police order makes no mention of foreign policies and seems to say must buy a policy locally.

The TGIA website says foreign policy can be used for only the first year. .. but it also contains a disclaimer that it is not an official govt site, and is run by companies with a vested financial interest in selling local policies.

Unfortunately govt is trying to leave it all to TGIA to decide, probably because they realized how complicated health insurance is and don't want to deal with it themselves. Eventually they will realize this approach is not working but it may take quite some time for that to happen.

 

BTW OPD and IPD is very common standard  terminology in the US.

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[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

With respect, your opinion is usually one of the correct ones.

With mutual respect Peter, that is your personal opinion. There are those that would disagree.

 

I completely understand exactly where @Lovethailandelite is coming from.

In principal he has a valid point.

The O-A Visa on most Embassy websites is advertised as the 'long stay', or 'retirement Visa, specifically for those over 50 who seek retirement in Thailand.

 

There are Immigration offices who have refused extensions based on retirement or marriage from 'O-A', 'B' and 'ED' Visa, all of which are Non Imm type Visa classes, insisting on an 'O' class Visa.

Opinions and interpretations differ between offices and officers as we all know, due to lack of clarity.

What Immigration state and what they mean can be two entirely different things.

 

At the end of the day, it's their interpretation that matters, regardless of what we think.

 

 

[Max69xl]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:51 AM, glegolo said:

I do not fully grasp all the details in this thing with insurance and Non Immigrant O-A VISA but to my own understanding I thought that if I have (like you have) an insurance covering the demand from the Imiigration, I do NOT need to issue/apply for another new one?????

 

I am wrong??

glegolo

You must apply for the O-A Visa in your home country. That's not Immigration. Your embassy will approve your insurance or not. If they approve it, there will be no problem entering Thailand. Visas issued before October 31 is not affected.

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, MalandLee said:

You need to change the highlighted text to THOSE UNDER 70 can get travel insurance from World Nomads for around 1K AUD.

 

Thanks for the correction, I didn't pay much attention as I'm well below this age ????

 

The CC travel insurance I have doesn't have age limits in the PDS.

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

With mutual respect Peter, that is your personal opinion. There are those that would disagree.

 

I completely understand exactly where @Lovethailandelite is coming from.

In principal he has a valid point.

The O-A Visa on most Embassy websites is advertised as the 'long stay', or 'retirement Visa, specifically for those over 50 who seek retirement in Thailand.

 

There are Immigration offices who have refused extensions based on retirement or marriage from 'O-A', 'B' and 'ED' Visa, all of which are Non Imm type Visa classes, insisting on an 'O' class Visa.

Opinions and interpretations differ between offices and officers as we all know, due to lack of clarity.

What Immigration state and what they mean can be two entirely different things.

 

At the end of the day, it's their interpretation that matters, regardless of what we think.

 

 

It's very easy to check the requirements at the local immigration office. No need for 100 posts about different interpretation from IO's. It will always differ. 

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unfortunately that is far from clear.

The police order makes no mention of foreign policies and seems to say must buy a policy locally.

The TGIA website says foreign policy can be used for only the first year. .. but it also contains a disclaimer that it is not an official govt site, and is run by companies with a vested financial interest in selling local policies.

Unfortunately govt is trying to leave it all to TGIA to decide, probably because they realized how complicated health insurance is and don't want to deal with it themselves. Eventually they will realize this approach is not working but it may take quite some time for that to happen.

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A foreign insurance will be accepted if it meets the requirements. The coverage are not very high,but the OPD is strangely high. Every insurance back home covers 5-10 times the required coverage in a local thai insurance. I am of course talking about the first year when applying in your home country. 

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the last page in the order (in English or the Thai pages) makes it clear it is only for entries to the country with a OA visa issued after October 31st.. It in no way applies to extension of stay.

I sincerely hope your correct Joe, but if the Insurance requirement pertains purely to entries to the Country on a Non O-A Visa from the 31st October, then why is there any need to amend internal orders relating to the 'Criteria for Consideration of granting an aliens extension of stay in the Kingdom'.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Tanoshi

[holy cow cm]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The minister is not working at immigration and did not read the police order issued in April. It clearly states ONLY O-A Visas from October 31 2019. Don't be so paranoid. No one knows what will happen in the future,but we're not there yet. 

My post only states that the Minister did speak out  that there will probably be another inclusion coming that will then cover all long term. I really don't care about the October deadline but see things in the longer run coming really soon which can effect me and all others. They can update a police order rather quickly as we have all seen.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I sincerely hope your correct Joe, but if the order pertains purely to entries to the Country on a Non O-A Visa from the 31st October, then why is there any need to amend internal orders relating to the 'Criteria for Consideration of granting an aliens extension of stay in the Kingdom'.

As I have written several time before when the question asked is that they had to put it in a police order to do the insurance checks for OA visas on entry and decided to add it to an existing one that is for retirement.

I don't think immigration wanted anything to do with insurance requirements but had to do it for entries to the country for OA visa entries after the new requirement went into effect.

[Tanoshi]

53 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

As I have written several time before when the question asked is that they had to put it in a police order to do the insurance checks for OA visas on entry and decided to add it to an existing one that is for retirement.

I don't think immigration wanted anything to do with insurance requirements but had to do it for entries to the country for OA visa entries after the new requirement went into effect.

I spoke to the Immigration advice line on 1178 this morning.

I've just return from my local IO (around the corner) in Roi Et.

 

Both gave the identical answer to my questions, which were;

Q. If I have a current valid O-A Visa, or a last 1 year entry from an O-A Visa, that has now expired, is medical Insurance required to obtain an extension based on retirement.

A. If your applying for your very first extension after 31st October, (from a previous entry of an O-A Visa) then yes, proof of medical Insurance is required.

 

Q. If I previously held an O-A Visa, but have already been granted an extension based on retirement, is proof of medical Insurance required.

A. No, if any permission to stay from an O-A Visa entry has previously expired and you've already extended your permission to stay based on retirement, then medical Insurance is not required.

 

That now makes sense why it was included in internal Immigrations orders pertaining to criteria for extensions of stay.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Exploring Thailand]

 

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

I'd like to know which company offers 13mil at 50% , the Thai company's are offering basic complient at 22k....really only 11k premium for 13mil?

 

I asked Saltire the same question. He is with Health Care International

 

 

On 10/13/2019 at 1:44 PM, Saltire said:

Thanks for the info, I will check the link.

 

I am with Health Care International (HCI) I can't recommend or otherwise as I have luckily never had to claim. Been with them 5 years and at 65 soon, better staying with them than changing in my opinion. Not sure if they would honour it, but they say if there is no claim based on my pre-existing conditions in the first 3 years of cover, they put a moritorium in place and would 'consider' covering them.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Both gave the identical answer to my questions, which were;

I think they both may of been wrong or were ill informed.

When Chaeng Wattana immigration was asked about by they said no.

I am not sure everybody at immigration have had everything in the order explained to them yet.

 

17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

A. If your applying for your very first extension after 31st October, (from a previous entry of an O-A Visa) then yes, proof of medical Insurance is required.

I think that answer could of easily been a misunderstanding of the question.

 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think they both may of been wrong or were ill informed.

When Chaeng Wattana immigration was asked about by they said no.

I am not sure everybody at immigration have had everything in the order explained to them yet.

 

I think that answer could of easily been a misunderstanding of the question.

 

With respect Joe, if the medical Insurance pertained purely to entries from an O-A Visa, then there would be no need for Immigration to include it in internal Police orders pertaining to the criteria for extensions.

 

The two sources I personally spoke to were fully aware of the amended orders, spoke excellent English and understood my questions exactly. They both answered identically.

The helpline is based at Bangkok.