ChokDee4213 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Wife and I got our marriage registered shortly after she purchased land and house for us under a bank loan. We are (she is) in year 2 of the 30 year loan and payments will increase step-by-step. We want to try and make this 50/50 in terms of loan payments, renovations/additions, and protection in case of death or divorce. Is there any way this is possible? My biggest fear is her having an accident and me losing her along with everything we would have built together. She would like for me to be able to invest more than standard rental fees in our future as well. I am assuming a usufruct agreement would not work as the house is still under loan from the bank. Even still, I do not have a lump sum of money to give her to compensate such an agreement. We are both young and need a solution that accommodates steady long-term investiture. If anyone has experience with this, or knows a reliable lawyer, I'd appreciate any insight you can offer. Thanks for reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 As I understand it. (happy to be corrected). Anything obtained prior to marriage is hers. The property belongs to the bank, if defaulted on, you have no say. If she makes a will and dies leaving the house to you, and if the loan is paid off by insurance, then you have one year to sell it. If she dies and the loan is in force, the bank will take it and return any funds over and above the outstanding debt to her beneficiary. With your current set up she can tell you to walk away at anytime and you have no recourse and that situation is unlikely to change whilst the loan is in force as it's not her property. This is only an opinion and I urge you to take qualified legal advice before making any decisions or entering into any agreements. Others undoubtedly will be along to add their thoughts in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baansgr Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I think you have answered your question in the topic title "wife's land" especially as purchased befor marriage so is regarded as Sin Suan Tua under Thai law. A last will and testament will cover in the event of death. Most loans/mortgages in Thailand have a hefty upfront insurance fee so should cover any outstanding debt which be be outlined in the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChokDee4213 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Furthering speculation: I wonder if it is possible for wife to leave the house to me in a will, then sell the house to her family if they enter a usufruct agreement. Still wouldn't protect me in the case of divorce. She might just have to be on her own in this case. Gotta love nationalist laws like these. Gotta keep the bloodlines pure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, ChokDee4213 said: Still wouldn't protect me in the case of divorce. In that case, don't invest in anything your not prepared to walk away from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inThailand Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 As stated above since done before marriage its all hers land and house. Don't waste your breath on worthless unus<deleted>. Since its already mortaged a lease is not possible. Prenuptial is out since already married. A Will is possible but she can terminate it at any time. A second mortgage is unlikely to offer much security either. Buy it back as a married couple. So your entitled to 50%. You will have to pay about 5% in transfer fees and taxes. Sell it to your company. You MD and shareholder, she the major Thai shareholder. Again costs to sell and set up and maintain company. Your situation though is bleak it does have an upside. You didn't have to outlay the money to buy it. If things go tits up you just walk away, you only loose your payments to date. This is much better financially than most have done. Once paid for, the falang is disposable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin case Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 agreements are good, till divorce comes and then you end up with nothing, thanks to the THAI RAK THAI mentality at every level there is no safe invest in your wife or thailand you have no right to own 1 cm of land if your wife dies, her family will be the first to come and get everything you paid for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saengd Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, justin case said: agreements are good, till divorce comes and then you end up with nothing, thanks to the THAI RAK THAI mentality at every level there is no safe invest in your wife or thailand you have no right to own 1 cm of land if your wife dies, her family will be the first to come and get everything you paid for In practise, marital property in Thailand is typically split 50/50 at time of divorce, even where foreigners are involved.. If the will of a Thai wife specifies the foreigner is the beneficiary of her estate, the property will be transferred into his name and he/she has one year in which to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain 776 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 She can lease it to you for 30 yrs and that can be notedon the Deed in the land office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 hours ago, ChokDee4213 said: Furthering speculation: I wonder if it is possible for wife to leave the house to me in a will, then sell the house to her family if they enter a usufruct agreement. Still wouldn't protect me in the case of divorce. She might just have to be on her own in this case. Gotta love nationalist laws like these. Gotta keep the bloodlines pure. I agree with @CharlieH's post above. A Last Will is always advisable, and to my knowledge, yes it's possible; but you need to check with a lawyer about details, especially as there is a mortgage, and you are a foreigner to take over and resell the property. Usufruct and habitation rights are possibilities to consider. You probably won't be protected in case of divorce, as the property was registered before marriage. There are also numerous postings about any agreement between husband and wife can be void (in case of divorce). However, as you pay half (or more?) of the money to the bank, you might be able to claim the bank repayments to be considered as common property, but you need to check that with a lawyer experienced in marriage and divorce cases, also about what documentation is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I thing Charlie H covered it pretty well.Go together to a good lawyer. Keep in mind that there is a possibility that you can lease on a 30 + 30 basis which protects you to some extent. In my case the relationship with my wife"s family is such that they would not make me homeless, but yes, even if you are the beneficiary in her will you will only have 1 year (+6 months extension) to sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 13 hours ago, Captain 776 said: She can lease it to you for 30 yrs and that can be notedon the Deed in the land office An unmortgaged property can be leased, I doubt that the owner (the bank) will agree to a lease on a mortgaged property Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChokDee4213 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks for the advice, you guys. Does anyone know a good lawyer? Perhaps consultation via Skype as I am in rural Buriram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 8:55 AM, justin case said: agreements are good, till divorce comes and then you end up with nothing, thanks to the THAI RAK THAI mentality at every level there is no safe invest in your wife or thailand you have no right to own 1 cm of land if your wife dies, her family will be the first to come and get everything you paid for I just love to see some of the arguments against marrying a Thai lady. Of course there is no safe investment In Thailand. Try getting divorced in the West where you will also have few if any rights and see how much that will cost you. Correct you cannot own the land but if she dies and you are legally married YOU are number one and the house and land will be left to you for a one year period. If you have children you can sell the house and land to them. Try reading this as it gives specific rules of law of inheritance in Thailand. https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html If you have NOT made a Last Will or Testament, or valid will, the law (intestacy rules) will determine what happens to your assets when you die. Under Thai inheritance laws this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:small map Thailand descendants parents brothers and sisters of full blood brothers and sisters of half blood grandparents uncles and aunts The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code quote "if your wife dies, her family will be the first to come and get everything you paid for." No they won't as you have the law on your side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alacrity Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 hours ago, billd766 said: I just love to see some of the arguments against marrying a Thai lady. Of course there is no safe investment In Thailand. Try getting divorced in the West where you will also have few if any rights and see how much that will cost you. Correct you cannot own the land but if she dies and you are legally married YOU are number one and the house and land will be left to you for a one year period. If you have children you can sell the house and land to them. Try reading this as it gives specific rules of law of inheritance in Thailand. https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html If you have NOT made a Last Will or Testament, or valid will, the law (intestacy rules) will determine what happens to your assets when you die. Under Thai inheritance laws this generally means that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. Under section 1629 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand there are 6 classes of statutory heirs and they are entitled to inherit in the following order:small map Thailand descendants parents brothers and sisters of full blood brothers and sisters of half blood grandparents uncles and aunts The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code quote "if your wife dies, her family will be the first to come and get everything you paid for." No they won't as you have the law on your side But if the situation's so bad that you think you're going to lose out anyways. You're entitled to sell (all) for 10 Baht before the 12 month period is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlyai Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Thanks for the advice, you guys. Does anyone know a good lawyer? Perhaps consultation via Skype as I am in rural Buriram.We got all our bits and pieces done through Isaan Laywers in Korat. On our way from Mukdahan to Banggers, dropped in, said what we wanted, they prepared everything and on our way back signed everything and took the land deed to the local land office. They wrote on the back of the land deed that this farang can live in the house till he dies. Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 12:06 AM, ChokDee4213 said: My biggest fear is her having an accident and me losing her along with everything we would have built together. Have a child together, that will take care of any problems arising from her dying suddenly. Most home loans have life insurance on the person taking out the loan, have your name put as beneficiary of the policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 6:07 AM, baansgr said: I think you have answered your question in the topic title "wife's land" especially as purchased befor marriage so is regarded as Sin Suan Tua under Thai law. You're completely wrong, as the land was purchased with a loan, and not using the wife's money. Thai law will almost certainly consider the property a joint marital asset, as the loan will be repaid with money generated during the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 my 2 cents worth, as you are both young and in a fairly new marriage, you have a few options 1, - trust her and invest as and when you can jointly 2, - as others have said don't invest more than you are prepared to walk away from, contribute as much money as a good rental would cost you 3, - explore the lease/ usufruct options, how big is the land, it makes a difference if you can inherit. 4, - enjoy life, don't think too far into the future, don't worry too much good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 2:05 AM, ChokDee4213 said: Furthering speculation: I wonder if it is possible for wife to leave the house to me in a will, then sell the house to her family if they enter a usufruct agreement. Still wouldn't protect me in the case of divorce. She might just have to be on her own in this case. Gotta love nationalist laws like these. Gotta keep the bloodlines pure. No. Doesn't matter what arrangements you have made regarding what happens if you divorce/ she dies, if the family want you out ( that isn't about anything legal wise ). Unless you have a wonderful Thai family happy to have you stay in it, IMO do not invest a satang in it. After my divorce the ex wife's family ensured I left before I could remove the most valuable of the appliances I had to leave behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxx Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Why not give your wife the money to pay off the loan? The land will then have no charge over it, so you could enter into a usufruct with her. However, this would only cover you in case of her death; in the case of divorce the usufruct would be void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baansgr Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 7:55 AM, BritManToo said: You're completely wrong, as the land was purchased with a loan, and not using the wife's money. Thai law will almost certainly consider the property a joint marital asset, as the loan will be repaid with money generated during the marriage. The wife is already registered as owner with the lender attaching a lien for the loan. Under the example you show, if your wife owned the house outright befor marriage, took a loan on the property the following day you would then be entitled to have the value of half the property as the law will consider the loan paid with joint assets.....I think that is not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadeeken Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I am concerned about the OP's concern ot her dying........... That happens rarely and isn't worth being overly concerned........ Live life for today and don't 'abuse the wife' (as Thai guys do - and a few young farangs also) and quite likely you will stay with her long and not have any these worries.......... If you fancy chasing other Thai ladies and feel like you may want to leave her someday..... Don't make her lose money for your 'wayward desires'........... SORRY........... But there actually is a 'few' farangs with Thoughts (and concerns) in this direction...... IF you are continuously good to her....... she will love you forever..... (and not have an accident)........ And all this worry will be 'for nothing'....... Just remember to do 'your part'........ If you don't do your part then be prepared for the 'disappointments' and kiss your <deleted> goodbye as her and family will win...... If you are the young falang wanting to live and make money off a Thai girl (and I KNOW of one or more instances) and you don't have money to cover your 'HALF'..... Then don't expect Thai laws to be of much help for your side......... Sorry if I am overly harsh..... Not knowing you and your real motivations...... But I have found many Thai girls to be sincere and deserving only to be ripped off by 'POOR' Farang guys......... IF I AM WRONG......... Please forgive me but at least think about what I have said..... It could help your relationship in the future......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChokDee4213 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 7:50 AM, BritManToo said: Have a child together... Unfortunately, I think we'd have to adopt. I'm assuming same rules apply though? We're a few years out from that, so plenty of time to consider. On 10/19/2019 at 8:36 AM, steve187 said: my 2 cents worth, as you are both young and in a fairly new marriage, you have a few options 1, - trust her and invest as and when you can jointly 2, - as others have said don't invest more than you are prepared to walk away from, contribute as much money as a good rental would cost you 3, - explore the lease/ usufruct options, how big is the land, it makes a difference if you can inherit. 4, - enjoy life, don't think too far into the future, don't worry too much good luck Good advice, thank you. We'll be contacting a lawyer after an international trip to meet my family and a wedding ceremony for hers. We have a decade or so before the loan payments get a bit large or MIL is old enough to warrant a wing on the house ????, so no rush. On 10/21/2019 at 11:23 AM, sawadeeken said: snip Idk how my question could have been perceived to cause you alarm about my intentions or our relationship, but thanks for your concern, we're fine. If you have anything constructive to add on the subject itself, it'd be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 7:09 AM, Oxx said: Why not give your wife the money to pay off the loan? The land will then have no charge over it, so you could enter into a usufruct with her. However, this would only cover you in case of her death; in the case of divorce the usufruct would be void. The termination of an Usufruct by divorce is not established law. To the best of my knowledge is not in any legislation, neither is it established case law There are different legal opinions a reasonable number of them say that the Usufruct contract (unless there is a clause in it voiding it on divorce) will survive the divorce. Having said that you can still be forced to leave, even with the law on your side, by the people around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 12:26 PM, ChokDee4213 said: Thanks for the advice, you guys. Does anyone know a good lawyer? Perhaps consultation via Skype as I am in rural Buriram. I can’t make a recommendation for a less expensive one, but if you want to contact me by PM then phone I will tell you of my experience, and a friend of mine, that you might want to consider before engaging a lawyer or law firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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