Brexit hangs in the balance as EU doubts a deal this week

[Denim]

There is no deal that will get the sanction of remainers so pretty much a waste of time.

 

The only deal that will be acceptable to them is another referendum.

 

Would be interesting to see what the outcome would be if this were to happen.

 

It would then have to be best of 5.

[SheungWan]

That is usually known as the Torygraph which is much like the Guardian but biased the other way.
 
TBH the only (but boringly long winded) way is to find your topic and run through them all and you may get closer to the middle opinion.
 
I rarely read any of the UK papers on Brexit any more because for every columnists opinion you can find the opposite in a different paper.

The middle is not somewhere equidistant between two poles where one or both are stupid.

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[SheungWan]

There is no deal that will get the sanction of remainers so pretty much a waste of time.
 
The only deal that will be acceptable to them is another referendum.
 
Would be interesting to see what the outcome would be if this were to happen.
 
It would then have to be best of 5.

Actually it is the no-deal Brexit tribe that want to trash any agreement.

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[SheungWan]

Well i have a St George flag, it will be raised on the 1st november.
 

Is it the same one you put up on March 29?

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[Denim]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Actually it is the no-deal Brexit tribe that want to trash any agreement.

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Which leaves a lot of politicians at both extremes who don't want a deal so ....thrashing out a deal remains a waste of time.

[SheungWan]

But he didn't speak for me.

Hard Brexiteers getting ready to wander off to the Brexit Party and practise intense scrutiny.

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[SheungWan]

 
Which leaves a lot of politicians at both extremes who don't want a deal so ....thrashing out a deal remains a waste of time.

What people want isn't always what they get, but task one is to kill off no-deal.

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[SheungWan]

Quite. All it will take is one more country to go belly-up like Greece did. And with member states like that, whose populations barely knows what tax is, it's only a matter of time.
 
With a little more foresight, anyone can see that all this bluster over a 'deal' is utterly irrelevant.

Its consolation time for the Hard Brexiteers.

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[Denim]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What people want isn't always what they get, but task one is to kill off no-deal.

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Ah ........so kill off no deal....but vote down any deal that is thrashed out.

 

So basically continue going nowhere for quite a while yet.

 

Great news for the newspaper industry

[Krataiboy]

8 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I now ignore the Greta thread where some of your other comments really belong,  as it is tragic to keep reading the views of all those old men getting triggered by this wee lassie. 

 

The point above is interesting (Although I'm not sure what gluers are). Is Capitalism dying, I'm not a great fan, but I doubt it. You can tell the countries that are not capitalist from space, the lights are out - North Korea, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, etc (Cuba is an exception I grant). I agree it is having to work harder, and markets are less easy to develop. Investing in Solar power etc may simply be a long term business decision, not based on politics, or concern for fellow humans, or the planet. Shareholders care about money only.

By gluers I mean folk who superglue themselves to windows, planes and other objects (or pretend to in the case of one "green" leader who obviously didn't want to get her hands dirty - even to save the planet).

 

The vices and virtues of capitalism can be argued, but as the website I linked to makes clear, there can be no dispute about the suborning of the environmental movement as a means of ensuring the system's survival.

[billd766]

51 minutes ago, david555 said:

yeah …, you better get used already to that one ….as the blue part is on his own way 

I was used to it way back in the early 1950s.

 

I should really be waving the flag of Wessex which is where I was born.

 

 

[JamesBlond]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

So all these "experts" who say brexit will damage the economy by 8-20% are wrong ? What do you base your opinion on ?

Nobody knows. Everyone believes what they want to believe. Most likely, everyone's economy will take a knock.

 

It's a fair assumption that the EU without the UK will be like The Smiths without Morrissey, like Manchester United without Fergie (and other demotic examples). It will be a club for losers, and the more that countries like Serbia and Turkey clamour to get in, the more the bigger economies will feel embarrassed to be part of it, just as they surely feel embarrassed to take part in Eurovision nowadays. They will all be looking at each other wondering what they should do. The damage to their pride will be irreparable. Gloom and depression will set in. And that will be the end of the Eurovision Union. Sing hosannas.

 

[david555]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I was used to it way back in the early 1950s.

 

I should really be waving the flag of Wessex which is where I was born.

 

 

Don't bother if no find …, this one will do fine , as everybody has in the house a white bedsheet ….5555 lol ????

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Nobody knows. Everyone believes what they want to believe. Most likely, everyone's economy will take a knock.

 

It's a fair assumption that the EU without the UK will be like The Smiths without Morrissey, like Manchester United without Fergie (and other demotic examples). It will be a club for losers, and the more that countries like Serbia and Turkey clamour to get in, the more the bigger economies will feel embarrassed to be part of it, just as they surely feel embarrassed to take part in Eurovision nowadays. They will all be looking at each other wondering what they should do. The damage to their pride will be irreparable. Gloom and depression will set in. And that will be the end of the Eurovision Union. Sing hosannas.

 

Likening Brexit Britain to Morrissey is, in some respects, unfortunately apt.

 

Morrissey reaffirms support for far-right party and claims 'everyone prefers their own race'

 

"Morrissey has reaffirmed his support for the far-right, anti-Islam party For Britain and suggested that Nigel Farage “would make a good prime minister”."

[Bruntoid]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

So all these "experts" who say brexit will damage the economy by 8-20% are wrong ? What do you base your opinion on ?

Absolutely nothing - there has never been a single economic strategy/theory/idea from a brexiteer on here that makes any sense let alone stand up to scrutiny.
 

They base the new age on WTO rules yet not one of them understands it. Even with google on tap they can’t get it right. 

 

It is entirely based on hope 

[JamesBlond]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Likening Brexit Britain to Morrissey is, in some respects, unfortunately apt.

 

Morrissey reaffirms support for far-right party and claims 'everyone prefers their own race'

 

"Morrissey has reaffirmed his support for the far-right, anti-Islam party For Britain and suggested that Nigel Farage “would make a good prime minister”."

He's entitled to his opinion. Do you not prefer your own culture? Do answer, because the question lays to rest every idle or scurrilous accusation of racism there is. Refuse to answer, lose the argument.

 

I should have added, by the way, that we need to Brexit from Eurovision too, for reasons of national dignity.

[oldhippy]

14 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

He's entitled to his opinion. Do you not prefer your own culture? Do answer, because the question lays to rest every idle or scurrilous accusation of racism there is. Refuse to answer, lose the argument.

 

I should have added, by the way, that we need to Brexit from Eurovision too, for reasons of national dignity.

QUOTE: Do you not prefer your own culture?

I prefer chicken curry over toast with sugary tomato beans on top.

Also I prefer sitar music over hooligans.

 

 

[samran]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

20 years???????

 

We've done a few already and we haven't even left yet. You Project Fear peddlers are like a maniacal religious cult ????. Once we're out of the EU we'll be able to sign FTA's very quickly, we won't have a chain attached to the cumbersome intransigent monolithic 'empire' that is the EU. 

 

Until then, yes, tariffs BOTH WAYS with the EU. Not an attractive proposition for the German car makers as their economy teeters on the brink of recession. 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/46f8f9a8-ed4a-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/germanys-ailing-economy-cant-afford-a-no-deal-brexit/

 

You mean those deal with Tunisia, the Faeroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority? Yeah, major trade partners those...

 

The EU Canada FTA started in 2004, finally got over the line in 2016 from memory.

 

Nafta was signed in 1992, after 6 years of negotiation and first proposed in 1980.

 

So you’ll need 20 years to get the deals and a patchwork of non comparable trade deals, just to get back what you’ve lost from throwing away the seamless access you have to the EU. 

Yeah, so they take a while. Not project fear, just history and fact. Hope it isn’t too much reality all in one post for you on your barstool. 

 

 

 

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

The EU Canada FTA started in 2004, finally got over the line in 2016 from memory.

 

Nafta was signed in 1992, after 6 years of negotiation and first proposed in 1980.

Yeah, so they take a while. Not project fear, just history and fact. Hope it isn’t too much reality all in one post for you on your barstool. 

 

 

 

And don't forget that most FTA's don't cover a lot of what is covered by the single market, like equal access for services.

[oldhippy]

20 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

He's entitled to his opinion. Do you not prefer your own culture? Do answer, because the question lays to rest every idle or scurrilous accusation of racism there is. Refuse to answer, lose the argument.

 

I should have added, by the way, that we need to Brexit from Eurovision too, for reasons of national dignity.

QUOTE: I should have added, by the way, that we need to Brexit from Eurovision too, for reasons of national dignity.

 

I agree, Cliff Richard with "Congratulations" was an insult to British Rock Music.

[samran]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

And don't forget that most FTA's don't cover a lot of what is covered by the single market, like equal access for services.

Indeed - but these numpties actually believe that 'free' means actual free trade.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, samran said:

You mean those deal with Tunisia, the Faeroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority? Yeah, major trade partners those...

 

The EU Canada FTA started in 2004, finally got over the line in 2016 from memory.

 

Nafta was signed in 1992, after 6 years of negotiation and first proposed in 1980.

 

So you’ll need 20 years to get the deals and a patchwork of non comparable trade deals, just to get back what you’ve lost from throwing away the seamless access you have to the EU. 

Yeah, so they take a while. Not project fear, just history and fact. Hope it isn’t too much reality all in one post for you on your barstool. 

 

 

 

Well we all know how quick the EU are at securing trade deals. They make a sloth look dynamic.

 

We've done around 15 deals so far but then we haven't even left yet. We have continuity deals with the likes of Norway, Switzerland, South Korea, Central America etc. Many others in the pipeline.

 

As for the barstool comment, not very original, not particularly amusing. "A" for effort, "D" for attainment. ????.

[DannyCarlton]

26 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I prefer chicken curry over toast with sugary tomato beans on top.

Also I prefer sitar music over hooligans.

Put a teaspoon of curry powder in your beans and you have the best of both worlds.

 

Used to listen to my Dad's Ravi Shankar records as a kid, probably why  i love listening to the Isssan phin being played now.

[SheungWan]

QUOTE: I should have added, by the way, that we need to Brexit from Eurovision too, for reasons of national dignity.
 
I agree, Cliff Richard with "Congratulations" was an insult to British Rock Music.

Not a patch on Bucks Fizz.

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[SheungWan]

Well we all know how quick the EU are at securing trade deals. They make a sloth look dynamic.
 
We've done around 15 deals so far but then we haven't even left yet. We have continuity deals with the likes of Norway, Switzerland, South Korea, Central America etc. Many others in the pipeline.
 
As for the barstool comment, not very original, not particularly amusing. "A" for effort, "D" for attainment. [emoji42].

Note the word "continuity".

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[samran]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Well we all know how quick the EU are at securing trade deals. They make a sloth look dynamic.

 

We've done around 15 deals so far but then we haven't even left yet. We have continuity deals with the likes of Norway, Switzerland, South Korea, Central America etc. Many others in the pipeline.

 

As for the barstool comment, not very original, not particularly amusing. "A" for effort, "D" for attainment. ????.

Continuity deals aren't trade deals for the most part, just a 'status quo' on the existing regulatory arrangements. ie. We'll still recognise this bit of paper on guaranteeing the quality of this good if you recognise ours.

 

They can, and will change once the trade dynamics become clearer, and you'll have much less leverage to negotiate them.

 

As for the barstool comment, yes apologies to all who sit on bar stools. You clearly are just making it up as you go along.

[SheungWan]

QUOTE: Do you not prefer your own culture?
I prefer chicken curry over toast with sugary tomato beans on top.
Also I prefer sitar music over hooligans.
 
 

Culinary mistakes.

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[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, samran said:

Continuity deals aren't trade deals for the most part, just a 'status quo' on the existing regulatory arrangements. They can, and will change once the trade dynamics become clearer, and you'll have much less leverage to negotiate them.

 

As for the barstool comment, yes apologies to all who sit on bar stools. You clearly are just making it up as you go along.

More nonsense. Continuity deals can roll over existing trade agreements as well, not only regulatory alignment.

 

For example, the deal with South Korea covers trade and we have 2 years to renegotiate it. Feel free to continue spouting more rubbish though. 

 

 

[samran]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

More nonsense. Continuity deals can roll over existing trade agreements as well, not only regulatory alignment.

 

For example, the deal with South Korea covers trade and we have 2 years to renegotiate it. Feel free to continue spouting more rubbish though. 

 

 

you really didn't read your own article did you?

 

"Moreover, trade experts have noted that, while there is some cause for celebration on the UK side, the government has thus far been unable to replicate this kind of deal with most of its other big trading partners".

 

" Britain had signed continuity agreements with Switzerland and Norway but these covered a reduced amount of trade."

 

and:

 

"The UK will also need to obtain South Korea’s consent to maintain existing tariff-free terms for UK goods with significant European components and for UK components in EU exports".

 

So this is what will happen, the South Koreans will use the next two years to consult their business community and look to see what they 'really' want out of a trade deal with the UK. The next deal they present to you won't be anywhere near as favourable.

 

While you will like to think there will be a rush of countries to sign a trade deal with you, the exact opposite will happen. They know the UK has shot itself in the foot trade wise, and will maximise the time it takes for you too bleed, before coming to negotiations and maximising their benefit, not yours.

 

So hardly anything to celebrate, a bit like cheering when you get a participation award.

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers getting ready to wander off to the Brexit Party and practise intense scrutiny.

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Cool. They'll arrive just in time to see Farage quit (again).