Shocked.

[Dudscar]

Found out today , to my horror,at nong Bualamphu immigration. That the combination of your pension and money in bank account was no longer valid unless pension was more than b65,000 per month or your account had more than b800,000. The Australian embassy has stopped issuing stat decks , not sure if that’s the reason, seems very strange reasoning to me. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

 

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[metisdead]

Not related to Android and iOS App Support, moving to the Visas forum. 

[bkk6060]

Wow,

welcome to TVF...

And, good luck.

[BritTim]

The combo method is still a valid way of proving you are financially qualified for your extension. However, the way they measure "income" for those who cannot get an embassy letter has changed. Income now is only money transferred from abroad into Thailand as a single sum at about the same time each month. Also, the money in the bank is now subject to adjusted requirements. The whole of that component of financial proof must now be retained in the bank for longer, and some must remain year round. It is complicated enough trying to satisfy the rules for income only (without embassy letter) or bank deposit only. I am not surprised your local immigration office does not want to deal with verifying the combination of the two.

[ubonjoe]

The combination option is still possible according the rules but some office do not want do them and say it is not possible.

This is what the new rules state if you cannot get proof of income from your embassy to prove your income.

 

And the order that shows the combination option.

 

Have you been doing monthly transfers into a Thai bank from abroad and how many have you done?

 

[Thaidream]

Once you get sorted- please write a long letter to your Embassy explaing the difficulties you have faced as a result of the Embassy refusing to provide an Embassy Letter. Make sure to provide an Info copy to your Home Office.

 

The 3 defiant embassies need to be reminded over and over again the havoc they have caused their citizens, while the other 80 Embassies in Thailand have no problem issuing the letter and it is accepted by Thai Immigration.

 

My best to you

[Jingthing]

Once you get sorted- please write a long letter to your Embassy explaing the difficulties you have faced as a result of the Embassy refusing to provide an Embassy Letter. Make sure to provide an Info copy to your Home Office.
 
The 3 defiant embassies need to be reminded over and over again the havoc they have caused their citizens, while the other 80 Embassies in Thailand have no problem issuing the letter and it is accepted by Thai Immigration.
 
My best to you

Yes. As if they care. Thrown under the bus we were.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[onera1961]

33 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Once you get sorted- please write a long letter to your Embassy explaing the difficulties you have faced as a result of the Embassy refusing to provide an Embassy Letter. Make sure to provide an Info copy to your Home Office.

 

The 3 defiant embassies need to be reminded over and over again the havoc they have caused their citizens, while the other 80 Embassies in Thailand have no problem issuing the letter and it is accepted by Thai Immigration.

I don't think embassies are responsible for finacial difficulties their citizens face in a foreign country. However, I do agree that thre three embassies abaondoned their citizens to the mercy of Thai immigration and they indeed stepped up and provided them refuge by allowing montlhly transfer of money method. So, kudos go to Thai immigration for this humanitarian acts to Wesstern people who fill up this forum with Thai bashing. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by onera1961

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think embassies are responsible for finacial difficulties their citizens face in a foreign country. However, I do agree that thre three embassies abaondoned their citizens to the mercy of Thai immigration and they indeed stepped up and provided them refuge by allowing montlhly transfer of money method. So, kudos go to Thai immigration for this humanitarian acts to Wesstern people who fill up this forum with Thai bashing. 

Idiotic comment. The three rogue embassies were directly responsible for increasing the income requirement for their own nationals when they yielded to immigration's insistence that 100% of it has to be brought into Thailand, incurring both transfer expenses, and a lack of option to keep some of that income in their home country where it may also be needed.

 

This has created a two tier system, with citizens of the remaining countries who continue to provide income letters enjoying considerable less onerous conditions around obtaining extensions. I don't know if the whole thing was a crackdown that fizzled out, or a deliberate targeting of certain embassies by immigration, but given the fact that it's a year later and no further embassies have followed suit, it's high time this matter got revisited. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by lamyai3

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The combination option is still possible according the rules but some office do not want do them and say it is not possible.

I have seen here on TV that combination was accepted at Jomtien, yet one of the well known visa agents was quite adamant recently stating it was no longer an option for retirement extensions. Not sure what is the actual state of play.

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I have seen here on TV that combination was accepted at Jomtien, yet one of the well known visa agents was quite adamant recently stating it was no longer an option for retirement extensions. Not sure what is the actual state of play.

From what I have seen some of the cased were when a person was still able to get proof of income from their embassy or had one that was issued before they stopped doing them.

Apparently immigration do not want to deal with totaling up 12 months of transfers to to get a annual income to confirm there is enough money in the bank. Another problem this year is when a person does not have the required 12 months of transfers when doing the application since they do not have enough info to work with.

Another problem is that some immigration offices are only using the police order that allows 12 months of transfers that does not mention the combination option. The combination option is shown in clause 2.22 of the conditions of a extensions of stay order.

 

[Caldera]

12 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I don't know if the whole thing was a crackdown that fizzled out, or a deliberate targeting of certain embassies by immigration, but given the fact that it's a year later and no further embassies have followed suit, it's high time this matter got revisited. 

As I understand it, they targeted those embassies that just took a person's word (under oath) for it, instead of verifying that they actually have the income that they claim. My embassy, for example, has always required supporting documents. They still issue the letters and Thai immigration seems satisfied with that, no changes whatsoever.

 

You're right about their insistence on actual verification having created a two-tier system, but I'd say it's ultimately because different embassies operate in different legal frameworks.

[robblok]

13 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Idiotic comment. The three rogue embassies were directly responsible for increasing the income requirement for their own nationals when they yielded to immigration's insistence that 100% of it has to be brought into Thailand, incurring both transfer expenses, and a lack of option to keep some of that income in their home country where it may also be needed.

 

This has created a two tier system, with citizens of the remaining countries who continue to provide income letters enjoying considerable less onerous conditions around obtaining extensions. I don't know if the whole thing was a crackdown that fizzled out, or a deliberate targeting of certain embassies by immigration, but given the fact that it's a year later and no further embassies have followed suit, it's high time this matter got revisited. 

Nothing wrong with giving out these certification from embassies. But basically there was a two tier system already with US inhabitants only having to swear something without proof and the rest of us having to show data to our embassy to substantiate the documents.

 

Embassies should just keep giving the document as long as there are enough funds but should check it so the Thais are satisfied. 

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, Caldera said:

As I understand it, they targeted those embassies that just took a person's word (under oath) for it, instead of verifying that they actually have the income that they claim. My embassy, for example, has always required supporting documents. They still issue the letters and Thai immigration seems satisfied with that, no changes whatsoever.

 

You're right about their insistence on actual verification having created a two-tier system, but I'd say it's ultimately because different embassies operate in different legal frameworks.

Indeed that is how i see it too.. there were embassies that were too lax with checks while others like the Dutch one really checked the documents. They still give out letters after real checks not the.. i swear. (trust but verify) 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

But basically there was a two tier system already with US inhabitants only having to swear something without proof and the rest of us having to show data to our embassy to substantiate the documents.

It was not only the US that allowed a person to do statement attesting to their income.

Australia did not ask for anything. The UK embassy only accepted mailed in and emailed application with only copies of the documents with no verification they were true and correct.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It was not only the US that allowed a person to do statement attesting to their income.

Australia did not ask for anything. The UK embassy only accepted mailed in and emailed application with only copies of the documents with no verification they were true and correct.

Then it seems that only the embassies that did not verify stopped but those who did are still doing it. Seems that the embassies should just start checking documents to help their citizen. I really understand the Thais not liking it that there were no checks from those 3 embassies. 

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Then it seems that only the embassies that did not verify stopped but those who did are still doing it. Seems that the embassies should just start checking documents to help their citizen. I really understand the Thais not liking it that there were no checks from those 3 embassies. 

The UK embassy did check, on the assumption that you were not sending forged documents to them when asking for the income letter. I doubt most other embassies are doing extensive checks on the information they are given when requesting the income letter.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Seems that the embassies should just start checking documents to help their citizen.

The embassies that stopped doing them cannot verify anything is the problem. Some are not even allowed to look at a document to approve a letter or statement that is done.

This was all discussed a year ago. Not need to start it again.

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

 

Edit: And now another  comment on moderation has been removed.

Edit: From the forum rules that fit for the post done.

"9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

And

"11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation."

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by ubonjoe

[tgeezer]

Some of the problem can be attributed to the increase in the value of the Thai Baht.  The required sums of money or income are arbitrary, and bear no relationship to whether a person is able to sustain a life here. If money is the only criterion used to assess a person’s worthiness then it is shortsighted, the wealthiest people are often crooks.  The simplest thing would have been to apply the new rules to new applicants, and to look more closely at existing cases in a more sympathetic way. 

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Once you get sorted- please write a long letter to your Embassy explaing the difficulties you have faced as a result of the Embassy refusing to provide an Embassy Letter. Make sure to provide an Info copy to your Home Office.

 

The 3 defiant embassies need to be reminded over and over again the havoc they have caused their citizens, while the other 80 Embassies in Thailand have no problem issuing the letter and it is accepted by Thai Immigration.

 

My best to you

As other embassies verified the income before issuing a letter, while these didn't.

[graemeaylward]

As I understand it, they targeted those embassies that just took a person's word (under oath) for it, instead of verifying that they actually have the income that they claim. My embassy, for example, has always required supporting documents. They still issue the letters and Thai immigration seems satisfied with that, no changes whatsoever.
 
You're right about their insistence on actual verification having created a two-tier system, but I'd say it's ultimately because different embassies operate in different legal frameworks.

British Embassy always required supporting paperwork re pension income, including p60 annual tax certificate, plus monthly pension statements and annual State Pension letter before issuing Embassy letter! However, they still decided that was not enough and pulled the plug! Disgusting behaviour I call it! Despite this, I still managed to get my 12 months extension, without any problems, as I have always paid my pensions into Thai bank account for the last 7 years. No need to pay the ridiculously high Embassy fee either, so I guess I am the winner :-)


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[Suradit69]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes. As if they care. Thrown under the bus we were.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And following the US embassy's decision, their response to questions and complaints about the impact of that decision demonstrated how clueless they were about the consequences of their decision as well as their sometimes arrogant indifference.

 

At least one response suggested that the issue could be easily resolved by quickly dumping baht 800,000 into your Thai bank account. Let them eat cake, indeed.

[Jingthing]

Yes and the U.S. case we know for a fact their excuses that they aren't allowed to do based on international State Department rules are totally wrong. The U.S. embassies in both Colombia and Peru (and likely other places as well) DO verify government pension benefit letters for purposes of immigration offices of those respective countries. Maybe they really couldn't go further than that, but certainly they could have issued letters based on social security benefits.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jingthing

[lkv]

18 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Idiotic comment. The three rogue embassies were directly responsible for increasing the income requirement for their own nationals when they yielded to immigration's insistence that 100% of it has to be brought into Thailand, incurring both transfer expenses, and a lack of option to keep some of that income in their home country where it may also be needed.

Let me rephrase that.

 

Rogue Thai officials have selected three countries where they thought their nationals can be milked for money. Then they summoned their embassies representatives, telling them to do something that no other embassy does, verify their income.

 

The representatives obviously said they cannot do what was requested, so in typical Thai fashion, Immigration made it look as if it's the Embassies fault.

 

Do they require all the other 150 embassies (or whatever the number is), to verify income? No.

 

So why state "rogue Embassies", when it's in fact "rogue Immigration"?

Edited October 16, 2019 by lkv

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, graemeaylward said:

I still managed to get my 12 months extension, without any problems, as I have always paid my pensions into Thai bank account for the last 7 years. No need to pay the ridiculously high Embassy fee either, so I guess I am the winner ????

Until Thailand decides to make you pay income tax on your pension.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, lkv said:

Let me rephrase that.

 

Rogue Thai officials have selected three countries where they thought their nationals can be milked for money. Then they summoned their embassies representatives, telling them to do something that no other embassy does, verify their income.

 

The representatives obviously said they cannot do what was requested, so in typical Thai fashion, Immigration made it look as if it's the Embassies fault.

 

Do they require all the other 150 embassies (or whatever the number is), to verify income? No.

 

So why state "rogue Embassies", when it's in fact "rogue Immigration"?

That is not true.. other embassies like the Dutch one DO check and verify income. So your posting untruths. 

[lkv]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

That is not true.. other embassies like the Dutch one DO check and verify income. So your posting untruths. 

If you say so.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

If you say so.

I don't say so its a fact, and other people who use other embassies have reported too that their income is checked. So it was those embassies that were wrong not the Thais. Sorry to rain on your Thaibashing parade. 

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sorry to rain on your Thaibashing parade. 

Yep Thai Land is that place with no corruption, proper law application, no scammy insurances. They would never try to scam the foreigner or milk the foreigner, because they do care about the foreigner. They care about their well being and security via TM30, they care about their health more recently. The foreigner is NOT just a walking ATM, as some Thai bashers might want to suggest wrongly on forums.

Edited October 16, 2019 by lkv