Sujo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Thomas J said: This says everything you need to know. What prosecutor would even investigate when the subject of the fictional coercion even states that there was no quid pro quo, no blackmail, and he felt no pressure. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-10-10/ukraine-zelensky-trump-impeachment If there was blackmail then that would be an additional charge. Now learn to read, asking a foreign govt to investigate a political rival is, in itself, illegal and impeachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Baerboxer said: Just think, a Democrat POTUS, and Democrats controlling both houses. The Show Trials can then really begin in earnest! My bet such a democratic confluence would only lead to swift action on universal healthcare, sane gun laws, equitable taxation and action on climate change!... All of which the previous republican confluence apposed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas J Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sujo said: Now learn to read, asking a foreign govt to investigate a political rival is, in itself, illegal and impeachable. Sujo, It is you who needs to learn how to read. If it was a crime, then the Justice Department would investigate it. If it is not "a crime" then then there is no "high crimes or misdemeanor" required to impeach. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/justice-dept-found-trump-didnt-commit-a-campaign-finance-crime-raised-by-whistleblower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedrogaz Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Jail him. There are few humans as despicable as Giuliani. Ugh. I do however get the feeling that this investigation may well turn up something ugly. Bolton as a whistle blower? I have always loathed warmonger Bolton, but now, for one of the few times in his life, he seems to be on the side of the righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thomas J said: Sujo, It is you who needs to learn how to read. If it was a crime, then the Justice Department would investigate it. If it is not "a crime" then then there is no "high crimes or misdemeanor" required to impeach. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/justice-dept-found-trump-didnt-commit-a-campaign-finance-crime-raised-by-whistleblower Campaign finance is seperate to asking a foreign govt to investigate a rival. Even a 5 year old could understand this. You do understand that it is a political trial, not a criminal trial. High crimes etc are whatever congress decides it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedrogaz Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said: Americans remember the incredible strength Mr Giuliani showed after 9/11 and his heroic efforts to calm and unite the nation after the appalling terrorism spectacular. Sick to see them treating him like this. I think this hounding and bullying nonsense will backfire. You can only cry wolf once, by the 15th time nobody(other than apparently Jeff Zucker) is paying any attention. He is loathsome. What did he actually do after 9/11 except claim praise which was not due to him. The real heroes were the firemen who put their lives on the line....not some egotist who grabbed the bullhorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas J Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sujo said: Campaign finance is seperate to asking a foreign govt to investigate a rival. Sujo, Again the Justice Department found NO CRIME Also, if it is a crime, then how what about prosecuting the Democrats for blatantly coercing Ukraine to investigate Trump. Or as an anti-Trumper it is OK for Hillary and the DNC to hire a former British spy to dig up dirt on Trump and the Congress to pressure Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thomas J said: Sujo, It is you who needs to learn how to read. If it was a crime, then the Justice Department would investigate it. If it is not "a crime" then then there is no "high crimes or misdemeanor" required to impeach. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/justice-dept-found-trump-didnt-commit-a-campaign-finance-crime-raised-by-whistleblower The problem with your logic is two fold... One The Congress gets to decide what a crime is not the Justice Dept... The reason being is that the Justice Department can be be headed by a person involved in the crime and just be a crony of the President (Like in Watergate... You should study history - Especially the part where Nixon's Attourney General was sentenced to 8 years in prison for doing exactly what you are advocating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas J Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, sfokevin said: One The Congress gets to decide what a crime is not the Justice Dept... Sfokevin, Now that is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. If Congress had the right to decide what Trump's crime was they would say it was being born. If you recall it was the FBI not Congress that gave Hillary a pass on her destruction of evidence even though the emails and devices were part of a congressional Subpoena. The Justice Department not Congress is the one to make the determination if there is probably evidence that a crime has been committed and if it is determined that there was to initiated prosecution. Congress can only "impeach" They are accusing Trump of an "abuse" of power even though the Democrats in Congress were far far far more explicit in their extortion of Ukraine to investigate Trump. This is a totally fabricated charge designed only to keep it in the News Media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Thomas J said: Sfokevin, Now that is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. If Congress had the right to decide what Trump's crime was they would say it was being born. If you recall it was the FBI not Congress that gave Hillary a pass on her destruction of evidence even though the emails and devices were part of a congressional Subpoena. The Justice Department not Congress is the one to make the determination if there is probably evidence that a crime has been committed and if it is determined that there was to initiated prosecution. Congress can only "impeach" They are accusing Trump of an "abuse" of power even though the Democrats in Congress were far far far more explicit in their extortion of Ukraine to investigate Trump. This is a totally fabricated charge designed only to keep it in the News Media. Stupid or not. Thats always been the way it is. Congress decides what is impeachable. What the justice dept decides is irrelevant. Also hilary did not ask a foreign govt to investigate. Steele was not an employee of any govt. Though it seems rudy is in big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, Thomas J said: Sujo, Again the Justice Department found NO CRIME Also, if it is a crime, then how what about prosecuting the Democrats for blatantly coercing Ukraine to investigate Trump. Or as an anti-Trumper it is OK for Hillary and the DNC to hire a former British spy to dig up dirt on Trump and the Congress to pressure Ukraine. The dems asked ukraine as part of an ongoing investigation by congress. No such investigation was underway when trump asked, in fact he asked for it to be started. yes it was ok for hilary to ask a former spy to get dirt. In fact it was ted cruz that started that. A former spy is just that, former. Not a govt employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howbri Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 hours ago, stevenl said: Yes. He once was a hero, how could he have sunk so low. Drain the swamp Donald. MAGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, Thomas J said: Sfokevin, Now that is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. If Congress had the right to decide what Trump's crime was they would say it was being born. If you recall it was the FBI not Congress that gave Hillary a pass on her destruction of evidence even though the emails and devices were part of a congressional Subpoena. The Justice Department not Congress is the one to make the determination if there is probably evidence that a crime has been committed and if it is determined that there was to initiated prosecution. Congress can only "impeach" They are accusing Trump of an "abuse" of power even though the Democrats in Congress were far far far more explicit in their extortion of Ukraine to investigate Trump. This is a totally fabricated charge designed only to keep it in the News Media. Give it up on Hillary conspiracy theories... We have moved on... Curious did the Clinton Justice Department march over to Newt Gingrich and the Republicans and tell them they needed to impeach Clinton for lying about a BJ in the oval office?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendejo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, sfokevin said: It gets even worse when one fires ones lawyers and says he can defend himself... Old saying: a lawyer who does his own defense has a fool for a client. Looks like it's true in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Swagman Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 For all the rabid defenders of this seemingly law ignoring administration, it matters not one whit whether an inquiry is spurious or genuine when issuing a subpoena. Non-compliance with that subpoena is against the law. Oh, and BTW, instructing people to ignore congressional subpoenas is literally ‘obstruction of justice’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Sujo said: Campaign finance is seperate to asking a foreign govt to investigate a rival. Even a 5 year old could understand this. You do understand that it is a political trial, not a criminal trial. High crimes etc are whatever congress decides it is. Yeah the level of ignorance about what impeachment is about is not exactly surprising, but isn't exactly encouraging either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybangkok Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomas J said: This says everything you need to know. What prosecutor would even investigate when the subject of the fictional coercion even states that there was no quid pro quo, no blackmail, and he felt no pressure. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-10-10/ukraine-zelensky-trump-impeachment I think Fiona Hill, one of Trumps ex-staff who until July directed Russian and European affairs for the National Security Council may may have something else to say about that. https://www.vox.com/2019/10/15/20915579/trump-impeachment-ukraine-fiona-hill-whistleblower The noose is going to continue to tighten as we see more and more of Trumps ex and present staff throw him under the bus before he throws them. Giuliani will be next. It's just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomas J said: Sujo, It is you who needs to learn how to read. If it was a crime, then the Justice Department would investigate it. If it is not "a crime" then then there is no "high crimes or misdemeanor" required to impeach. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/justice-dept-found-trump-didnt-commit-a-campaign-finance-crime-raised-by-whistleblower The Constitution invests the power of Impeachment in Congress. Absolutely nothing at all to do with the DoJ and by no means necessarily anything to do with breaking laws. Given Billy Barr’s in plain sight corruption in office, your claims regarding what the DoJ might or might not do and what might be inferred from that are resting on crumbling foundations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomas J said: Sfokevin, Now that is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. If Congress had the right to decide what Trump's crime was they would say it was being born. If you recall it was the FBI not Congress that gave Hillary a pass on her destruction of evidence even though the emails and devices were part of a congressional Subpoena. The Justice Department not Congress is the one to make the determination if there is probably evidence that a crime has been committed and if it is determined that there was to initiated prosecution. Congress can only "impeach" They are accusing Trump of an "abuse" of power even though the Democrats in Congress were far far far more explicit in their extortion of Ukraine to investigate Trump. This is a totally fabricated charge designed only to keep it in the News Media. The DoJ have no standing in Impeachment , other than if called to give testimony/present evidence. Impeachment is the sole responsibility of Congress. Back to Civics class you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybangkok Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomas J said: Sujo, It is you who needs to learn how to read. If it was a crime, then the Justice Department would investigate it. If it is not "a crime" then then there is no "high crimes or misdemeanor" required to impeach. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/justice-dept-found-trump-didnt-commit-a-campaign-finance-crime-raised-by-whistleblower From your own post - 'But, interestingly, and in some ways more importantly, the Justice Department says, but there may be a criminal violation here, so we need to look at that, so we're — we, the Justice Department, are going to take a look at what happened here and see if there's reason to pursue a criminal investigation'. It also clearly explains that this would not normally go to the Justice Department. Trump fans don't do legal. Bigly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: The Constitution invests the power of Impeachment in Congress. Absolutely nothing at all to do with the DoJ and by no means necessarily anything to do with breaking laws. Given Billy Barr’s in plain sight corruption in office, your claims regarding what the DoJ might or might not do and what might be inferred from that are resting on crumbling foundations. Bill Barr isn't corrupt that's a another lame talking point to deligitmize the chief law enforcement officer of the USA .It's perpetrated by the dems. your facts are based on dem talking points https://theweek.com/articles/869062/democrats-arent-helping-themselves-by-attacking-bill-barr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dap Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, atyclb said: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/07/12/cq_3065.html?mcubz=0 "The International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) released a video Wednesday evening portraying what the union characterizes as leadership “failures” allegedly committed by Giuliani before, during and after the attack that claimed the lives of 343 firefighters." Thank you for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 52 minutes ago, riclag said: Bill Barr isn't corrupt that's a another lame talking point to deligitmize the chief law enforcement officer of the USA .It's perpetrated by the dems. your facts are based on dem talking points https://theweek.com/articles/869062/democrats-arent-helping-themselves-by-attacking-bill-barr Bill Barr isnt corrupt? You have just lost any credibility you had left. Anyone still working near trump is corrupt simply for turning a blind eye. Thats not opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dap said: 6 hours ago, atyclb said: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/07/12/cq_3065.html?mcubz=0 "The International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) released a video Wednesday evening portraying what the union characterizes as leadership “failures” allegedly committed by Giuliani before, during and after the attack that claimed the lives of 343 firefighters." Thank you for this. are you a firefighter or know someone that perished from 911 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dap Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, atyclb said: are you a firefighter or know someone that perished from 911 ? No on both accounts but have several friends who are/were firefighters, police officers and medical emergency personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: Impeachment is the sole responsibility of Congress. Right now, seems like the sole priority of congress. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said: Right now, seems like the sole priority of congress. ???? Trump most probably wouldn't made it to congress. He will rather resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quandow Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, riclag said: Bill Barr isn't corrupt that's a another lame talking point <snip> C'mon, are you taking the p*ss? He was shown as corrupt in Iran/Contra and he's up to his old tricks again. Coming up with a "summarization" of the Mueller report that contradicted the actual report, putting Chelsea Manning in jail for ignoring a subpoena but letting Rudy to do the same thing? Pleeeeeeze! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 13 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said: Americans remember the incredible strength Mr Giuliani showed after 9/11 and his heroic efforts to calm and unite the nation after the appalling terrorism spectacular. Sick to see them treating him like this. I think this hounding and bullying nonsense will backfire. You can only cry wolf once, by the 15th time nobody(other than apparently Jeff Zucker) is paying any attention. Yes we do. And we also do not recognize the shrill, incompetent, foolish, reckless, feckless, ignorant, partisan fool he has become. He is a pale shadow of his.former self and like his master, he has rightly earned all the ridicule and scrutiny of late. No doubt Trump will throw him under the bus like he does anyone who is either no longer useful to him, or a liability. He has become a massive problem for Don Donald. Trump knows nothing of loyalty, and deciding to work for the man ends up being the worst decision of each man and woman's career. Sorry, little sympathy for this corrupt and failing man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becker Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said: Right now, seems like the sole priority of congress. ???? As it should be since it's painfully obvious the president of the US is a criminal with mysteriously cozy/subservient relationships with foreign despots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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