Brexit deal within reach in last-ditch talks, but doubts remain

[webfact]

Brexit deal within reach in last-ditch talks, but doubts remain

By Gabriela Baczynska and Padraic Halpin

 

A man walks past an UK government Brexit information campaign poster at a bus stop in central London, Britain, October 15, 2019. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

LUXEMBOURG/DUBLIN (Reuters) - Last-ditch talks between Britain and the European Union to get a Brexit deal ahead of a summit of the bloc's leaders this week went on past midnight to Wednesday, but it was still unclear if London could avoid postponing its departure due on Oct. 31.

 

Officials and diplomats involved in negotiations over the acrimonious divorce between the world's fifth-largest economy and its biggest trading bloc said that differences over the terms of the split had narrowed significantly.

 

However, the European Union's Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, made clear at a meeting of the bloc's ministers in Luxembourg that if an agreement could not be reached on Tuesday, it would be too late to send anything for leaders to approve at a summit in Brussels on Thursday and Friday.

 

Barnier also told EU ministers earlier on Tuesday that customs arrangements for the island of Ireland, the issue of giving more say to Northern Irish authorities as well as the so-called level-playing field clauses for fair competition were all still open.

 

On Tuesday night, an EU official said: "What is outstanding is the level-playing field provisions... There would be no customs duties on goods crossing to Northern Ireland if they were to stay there."

 

But, as the clock struck midnight in Brussels, the talks were still going on between Britain's Brexit negotiator David Frost and the EU's executive European Commission.

 

That could force another extension of the date for the UK's split from the 27 other member states, the third since Britons voted in a June 2016 referendum to quit the EU.

 

Britain's plan to leave the EU, which has only ever added new member states, has compounded problems for a bloc torn by euroscepticism and economic disparities.

 

Britain has itself been polarised bitterly by Brexit.

 

 

CLOSE, BUT NOT THERE YET

A second EU official said an agreement was "close but not 100% certain", adding "there are still parts that need to be nailed down".

 

Sterling surged to its highest level against the dollar <GBP=D3> and the euro since May on Tuesday on rising hopes for a deal.The main sticking point in talks has been the border between EU member Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland.

 

The question is how to prevent the border becoming a backdoor into the EU's single market without erecting controls which could undermine the 1998 peace agreement that ended decades of conflict in the province.

 

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar told reporters in Dublin that talks had moved in the right direction.

 

"But whether we will be able to conclude a revised withdrawal agreement, which after all is an international treaty, in time for the summit on Thursday, that's as of now unclear," he said, adding that some hours earlier the gap had been "quite wide, particularly on the issue of customs."

 

The small Northern Irish party supporting Britain's minority government said further work was required to get a deal through.

 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is likely to need the Democratic Unionist Party's (DUP) support if he is to get it through a vote in the British parliament.

"We respect (the) fact negotiations are ongoing therefore cannot give a detailed commentary but it would be fair to indicate gaps remain and further work is required," the DUP said in a statement.

 

If London is unable to clinch a deal, an acrimonious divorce could follow that would hit trade and business, roil financial markets and potentially lead to the United Kingdom splitting.

 

WINNING UK PARLIAMENT'S SUPPORT

Even if Johnson wins the approval of Europe's big powers for the deal his negotiators have proposed, he must still sell it to a British parliament in which he does not command a majority.

 

Brexit-supporting Conservative lawmaker Owen Paterson said Johnson's emerging divorce deal was "unacceptable".

 

A leading figure in the 2016 referendum who came to power as head of ruling Conservative Party in July, Johnson has pledged to take the country out of the bloc on Oct. 31 whether or not a withdrawal agreement has been reached.

 

But parliament has passed a law saying Britain cannot leave without an agreement, and Johnson has not explained how he can get around that.

 

The main obstacle has been around customs, with the latest proposal envisaging that Northern Ireland stays in the UK customs area. Tariffs would apply on goods crossing from mainland Britain to Northern Ireland if they were deemed to be headed further to EU member Ireland and the bloc's single market.

 

A compromise of that order could be derailed in the UK parliament, where a rare Saturday session is due to be held this weekend.

 

Indeed, the DUP insisted that the region must remain within the United Kingdom customs union as part of any Brexit deal and not have to follow tariffs set by the European Union.

 

Deal or no deal for the summit, EU officials believe another delay to Britain's departure date is still likely. Extension options range from an extra month to half a year or longer.

 

(Additional reporting by John Chalmers in Brussels and by Kate Holton and Elizabeth Piper in London; Writing by John Chalmers; editing by Mike Collett-White and Lisa Shumaker)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-16

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[Samui Bodoh]

So, Boris is trying to figure out a way to sell out the people of NI. What a surprise...

 

If a British PM was willing to screw over their own people so badly and create a British border in the Irish sea, then a deal could have been reached a long time ago. Why not just grant independence to Northern Ireland and allow for unification?

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

Master negotiator indeed...

 

 

[dunroaming]

All the talks are shrouded in secrecy so hard to know what the facts are.  It seems that a deal was possible but the DUP and the ERG are not going along with it.  That would indicate that Johnson has agreed to more concessions that the hard liners won't go along with.  The border in the Irish sea is a farce so at the moment I can't see a breakthrough and the can has reached the end of the road.  Could still get there in time but if not then an extension or death in a ditch looms large!

[samran]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

So, Boris is trying to figure out a way to sell out the people of NI. What a surprise...

 

If a British PM was willing to screw over their own people so badly and create a British border in the Irish sea, then a deal could have been reached a long time ago. Why not just grant independence to Northern Ireland and allow for unification?

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

Master negotiator indeed...

 

 

I said it a year ago, all that needs to happen is that the conservatives throw the DUP under a bus and they get brexit. 

However much they dress it up as anything else (how does ‘one country two systems ‘ sound...?) it really means that NI effectively stays in the EU and a unified ireland is a step closer. All thanks to a bunch of Eton and Oxford brats...

 

[tebee]

27 minutes ago, samran said:

I said it a year ago, all that needs to happen is that the conservatives throw the DUP under a bus and they get brexit. 

However much they dress it up as anything else (how does ‘one country two systems ‘ sound...?) it really means that NI effectively stays in the EU and a unified ireland is a step closer. All thanks to a bunch of Eton and Oxford brats...

 

There are only 2 workable solutions to the NI/Brexit conundrum 

 

Either 

 

a. the UK stays in the SM+CU - which was eliminated by TM's red lines or

 

b. NI separates from the UK and probably eventually joins the rest of Ireland

 

That the DUP were too stupid to recognize  this and supported brexit in the first place probably says a lot about the DUP  

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

within reach

Oh dear, 

How many times we were told this already within the last 3 years??? ????

[sawadee1947]

51 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

death in a ditch

I would really love to see this.????

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

So, Boris is trying to figure out a way to sell out the people of NI. What a surprise...

 

If a British PM was willing to screw over their own people so badly and create a British border in the Irish sea, then a deal could have been reached a long time ago. Why not just grant independence to Northern Ireland and allow for unification?

 

Erin go Bragh!

 

Master negotiator indeed...

 

 

 

Because the people of Northern Ireland are British and don't want to be forced not to be.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

52 minutes ago, tebee said:

There are only 2 workable solutions to the NI/Brexit conundrum 

 

Either 

 

a. the UK stays in the SM+CU - which was eliminated by TM's red lines or

 

b. NI separates from the UK and probably eventually joins the rest of Ireland

 

That the DUP were too stupid to recognize  this and supported brexit in the first place probably says a lot about the DUP  

 

or c) the UK leaves with no deal and negotiations continue, except the UK is no longer a EU member or

    d) Article 50 is revoked, the UK continues as a member on it's existing membership terms and then thinks carefully about its future now so much more information is known.

 

Only option b) sells out the people of NI and will lead to bloodshed.

[puipuitom]

Curious, how the EU will defend their two other pillars: after freedom of movement to goods, also that of people and of capital.

As Boris the Liar is doing all to stay PM , he will not only sacrifice the Northern Irish (Unionists), but everything.

[samran]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

Curious, how the EU will defend their two other pillars: after freedom of movement to goods, also that of people and of capital.

As Boris the Liar is doing all to stay PM , he will not only sacrifice the Northern Irish (Unionists), but everything.

Freedom of movement between Ireland and UK remains post brexit due to the Common Travel area which predates the EU. Each other’s nationals will continue to be able to live and work in each other’s countries 

[khunken]

30 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Because the people of Northern Ireland are British and don't want to be forced not to be.

 

 

No they're not. Only a minority think they are British and even they are not. They are members of the UK - Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

You seem to be still living in the Ian Paisley days of 'no surrender' when a slight majority in NI supported that slogan.

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

or c) the UK leaves with no deal and negotiations continue, except the UK is no longer a EU member or

    d) Article 50 is revoked, the UK continues as a member on it's existing membership terms and then thinks carefully about its future now so much more information is known.

 

Only option b) sells out the people of NI and will lead to bloodshed.

While I would agree that option c) is a distinct possibility, I would suggest it is neither a solution or workable.  at that point the UK has already broken it's treaty obligations,  customs posts are being built and tensions rising. There is no solution - other than the unification of Ireland - available at that point. 

[tebee]

56 minutes ago, khunken said:

No they're not. Only a minority think they are British and even they are not. They are members of the UK - Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

You seem to be still living in the Ian Paisley days of 'no surrender' when a slight majority in NI supported that slogan.

 

And we all know what happens when you let a slight majority take control of the political process and completely ignore the minorities views. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Because the people of Northern Ireland are British and don't want to be forced not to be.

 

 

A lot of the people feel as you say, but by no means all

[dunroaming]

Everyone is questioning what Johnson is going to do next.  The distrust is staggering and not helps by todays confirmation by Boris's office.  It started with them saying that a letter would be sent asking for an extension on Saturday if no deal is agreed.  The very next sentence said "but we will be leaving on the 31st October no matter what".  Boris's pledge from day one.  How can you claim both will happen?  Now Johnson has hinted that he will ask for an extension if there is no deal agreed.

 

So Boris has accepted that no-deal is not an option?  And there are still some who think's he is the man for the job?  Has this man ever played a straight bat in his life?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Everyone is questioning what Johnson is going to do next.  The distrust is staggering and not helps by todays confirmation by Boris's office.  It started with them saying that a letter would be sent asking for an extension on Saturday if no deal is agreed.  The very next sentence said "but we will be leaving on the 31st October no matter what".  Boris's pledge from day one.  How can you claim both will happen?  Now Johnson has hinted that he will ask for an extension if there is no deal agreed.

 

So Boris has accepted that no-deal is not an option?  And there are still some who think's he is the man for the job?  Has this man ever played a straight bat in his life?

 

 

I think he is the man for the job.

 

 

He has made much more progress than the woeful T. May.

 

 

Who would YOU have batting for us?

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think he is the man for the job.

 

 

He has made much more progress than the woeful T. May.

 

 

Who would YOU have batting for us?

Second time I have been asked that.  Odd question to ask someone who voted remain don't you think?

 

As for Johnson's progress, you and I and just about everyone else haven't got a clue what progress he has made because he is keeping it a closely guarded secret.  Something I do understand.  He has lost every vote in Parliament, had Tory MPs crossing the floor and now has a substantial minority government.

 

Well I am glad you feel he is the man for the job 

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Second time I have been asked that.  Odd question to ask someone who voted remain don't you think?

 

As for Johnson's progress, you and I and just about everyone else haven't got a clue what progress he has made because he is keeping it a closely guarded secret.  Something I do understand.  He has lost every vote in Parliament, had Tory MPs crossing the floor and now has a substantial minority government.

 

Well I am glad you feel he is the man for the job 

 

 

You didn't answer my question but are happy to just criticise those attempting to do their job.

 

Even as a remainer you have a vested interest in the UK's success in the negotiations.

 

Now, you clearly don't rate Boris so who would you put forward. 

[dunroaming]

45 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You didn't answer my question but are happy to just criticise those attempting to do their job.

 

Even as a remainer you have a vested interest in the UK's success in the negotiations.

 

Now, you clearly don't rate Boris so who would you put forward. 

OK let me clarify.  As a remainer my vote was defeated and therefore I don't have someone to "back".  Like everyone else I am a bystander.  I didn't vote for May and none of us voted for Johnson.  Still that is who we have.  We cannot replace him so it is a matter of whether we think he is doing the best job and negotiating a deal that will make Brexit as UK friendly as is possible.

 

Therefore Brexit will be judged by his success or failure.  There are some checks and balances that can be put in place (and have been) to stop him taking us over the cliff edge.  Thanks' to the British public in the last general election the Tory Party majority was cut back considerably.  So they had to get into bed with the DUP.  That has complicated the potential deal for a start.  Then Johnson withdrew the Whip wiping out more MP's and because of his cavalier approach other Tory MPs gave him the finger and and crossed the house.  All this makes it harder for him to get a deal agreed with parliament.  Then you have his pals in the ERG who he has promised a hard Brexit to.

 

I concede that Johnson has a really difficult task to fulfil but only he has made this as difficult as it is.  When I say him I also mean Cummings as well.  And of course I do have a vested interest in what sort of Brexit we end up with.  I accepted long ago that Brexit would go ahead and I have been hoping for a sensible one staying in the single market and customs union.  If Johnson adopted that approach he would get my backing.  

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

So, Boris is trying to figure out a way to sell out the people of NI. What a surprise...

 

If a British PM was willing to screw over their own people so badly and create a British border in the Irish sea, then a deal could have been reached a long time ago. Why not just grant independence to Northern Ireland and allow for u  

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

why not just grant independence to Northern Ireland and allow for unification?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good idea,but first why not give eire a referendum about if they want to stay in the eu?

 

 

[Jip99]

57 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

OK let me clarify.  As a remainer my vote was defeated and therefore I don't have someone to "back".  Like everyone else I am a bystander.  I didn't vote for May and none of us voted for Johnson.  Still that is who we have.  We cannot replace him so it is a matter of whether we think he is doing the best job and negotiating a deal that will make Brexit as UK friendly as is possible.

 

Therefore Brexit will be judged by his success or failure.  There are some checks and balances that can be put in place (and have been) to stop him taking us over the cliff edge.  Thanks' to the British public in the last general election the Tory Party majority was cut back considerably.  So they had to get into bed with the DUP.  That has complicated the potential deal for a start.  Then Johnson withdrew the Whip wiping out more MP's and because of his cavalier approach other Tory MPs gave him the finger and and crossed the house.  All this makes it harder for him to get a deal agreed with parliament.  Then you have his pals in the ERG who he has promised a hard Brexit to.

 

I concede that Johnson has a really difficult task to fulfil but only he has made this as difficult as it is.  When I say him I also mean Cummings as well.  And of course I do have a vested interest in what sort of Brexit we end up with.  I accepted long ago that Brexit would go ahead and I have been hoping for a sensible one staying in the single market and customs union.  If Johnson adopted that approach he would get my backing.  

 

 

Fair comments.

 

Thank you for answering.

[dunroaming]

41 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Fair comments.

 

Thank you for answering.

Unlike many on TV I don't consider leavers to be "the enemy" just because I voted remain.  I feel we are all being let down and lied to.  If the Brexit pledges were met then I would hold my hands up and say fair enough.  I understood all the arguments for wanting to leave and the Brexit campaigners made it sound very attractive.  But that isn't the Brexit we are being fed, some would say force fed.  I am angry that we are being taken for a ride

[StreetCowboy]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think he is the man for the job.

 

 

He has made much more progress than the woeful T. May.

 

 

Who would YOU have batting for us?

What progress has he made? We are still in the EU, while May would have had us out had she not been betrayed by Johnson and other Tory backstabbers.

[White Christmas13]

EU-UK deal pretty much done: EU sources

Britain and the EU are close to a tentative Brexit deal which will need backing from the UK government, according to EU sources.

https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/uk-struggles-to-agree-on-late-brexit-deal/news-story/97a62da94d0f5a9ee2c6ba5b3e8a2891

 

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

And we all know what happens when you let a slight majority take control of the political process and completely ignore the minorities views. 

Yeah,mob rule and anarchy

[Basil B]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Brexit deal within reach in last-ditch talks

I presume it was "no pun intended"... 

[RuamRudy]

New IRA says border infrastructure would be ‘legitimate target for attack’

"In an interview with Channel 4 News, the group said it was committed to ‘armed actions’ against border infrastructure – and ‘the people who are manning them’."

https://www.channel4.com/news/new-ira-says-border-infrastructure-would-be-legitimate-target-for-attack

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jip99]

7 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

What progress has he made? We are still in the EU, while May would have had us out had she not been betrayed by Johnson and other Tory backstabbers.

 

 

But she didn't - her 'deal' was never a deal that would pass parliamentary approval.

 

"Progress".... read the newspapers - they are not all billsh1t.

[Jip99]

18 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

What progress has he made? We are still in the EU, while May would have had us out had she not been betrayed by Johnson and other Tory backstabbers.

 

 

You still need to ask the question ?

 

I would say that agreeing a deal with EU, that sees the backstop removed, comes under the heading of progress.