Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Mango Bob said:

I was looking at the Standard plans not the Platinum plans.  Can we get the Platinum plans or the Standard Extra plan?

 

I had a phone call the other day with a farang rep at Pacific Cross, and he indicated that in terms of Pacific Cross issuing the required O-A insurance certification....

 

....Any of the three Platinum policies they list on their TGIA-linked page would qualify, as well as any of their general public policies starting with their Standard Extra and above plans (meaning NOT their lower Standard and Standard Plus plans).

 

...assuming you meet their age eligibility requirements.

 

PS - Don't ask me to explain why they're saying their Standard Plus policy would NOT qualify for an O-A insurance certificate. It meets the 40/400K coverage minimums. All the Pacific Cross guy could say was, the Standard Plus plan has not been approved by the government for O-A purposes.

 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I am trying to figure out how this insurance works just in case those with old O/a who are now on extension of stay have to have the insurance.  I have Tricare for Life and don't need none of these policies.  But as things stand we will need a Thai policy that I would not use and a waste of my money because I will never use it but have to pay for it.

When you have "other" type of insurance you must file a claim with them before filing your Tricare claim, to include attaching a Explanation of Benefits paid by that other insurance.  So, you would need to use your private, high cost, poor coverage Thai insurance first which then risks premium increases or cancellation before you can legally file your Tricare claim.  See below snapshot from the Tricare claim form, DD Form 2642, that you have surely completed/filed many times over the years.

 

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I had a phone call the other day with a farang rep at Pacific Cross, and he indicated that in terms of Pacific Cross issuing the required O-A insurance certification....

 

....Any of the three Platinum policies they list on their TGIA-linked page would qualify, as well as any of their general public policies starting with their Standard Extra and above plans (meaning NOT their lower Standard and Standard Plus plans).

 

...assuming you meet their age eligibility requirements.

 

PS - Don't ask me to explain why they're saying their Standard Plus policy would NOT qualify for an O-A insurance certificate. It meets the 40/400K coverage minimums. All the Pacific Cross guy could say was, the Standard Plus plan has not been approved by the government for O-A purposes.

 

Thank you every much.  I understand now.  Got confused reading two topics here you had answered in.  Again Thanks.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I am trying to figure out how this insurance works just in case those with old O/a who are now on extension of stay have to have the insurance.

 

I think planning ahead for possibilities is always a prudent thing.

 

But FWIW, as things stand right now, it's still not clear whether pre Oct. 31 O-A visa holders will be impacted when they enter after Oct. 31, nor is it clear whether prior O-A visa, current extension of stay holders will be impacted. Mixed signals continue to flow...

 

[Mango Bob]

39 minutes ago, Pib said:

When you have "other" type of insurance you must file a claim with them before filing your Tricare claim, to include attaching a Explanation of Benefits paid by that other insurance.  So, you would need to use your private, high cost, poor coverage Thai insurance first which then risks premium increases or cancellation before you can legally file your Tricare claim.  See below snapshot from the Tricare claim form, DD Form 2642, that you have surely completed/filed many times over the years.

 

Yes, I know about this.  My understand is that the Pacific Life policy does not cover you if you use Bumrungrad or BNH which are the hospitals I use for both inpatient and outpatient care.  Also, I plan to take the 300,000 deduction to lower the cost of the Pacific Life policy.  But I sure hope I don't need this insurance.  But I have 9 more months until my extension ends and I need to extend again.  Lots can change by then both good and bad.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Yes, I know about this.  My understand is that the Pacific Life policy does not cover you if you use Bumrungrad or BNH which are the hospitals I use for both inpatient and outpatient care.  Also, I plan to take the 300,000 deduction to lower the cost of the Pacific Life policy.  But I sure hope I don't need this insurance.  But I have 9 more months until my extension ends and I need to extend again.  Lots can change by then both good and bad.

How much does a Bt300K deductible lower premiums?  And are you sure you can even take such a high deductible as that would seem to defeat almost all of the coverage that the govt wants a person to have. 

[Mango Bob]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

How much does a Bt300K deductible lower premiums?  And are you sure you can even take such a high deductible as that would seem to defeat almost all of the coverage that the govt wants a person to have. 

I read it in there brochure.  It said to reduce the policy by 50%.

[Pib]

Just now, Mango Bob said:

I read it in there brochure.  It said to reduce the policy by 50%.

Unless that is one of the approved govt plans for an OA visa then such a deductible might not be allowed.

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Unless that is one of the approved govt plans for an OA visa then such a deductible might not be allowed.

I filled out the application form and it is on there also.  Monday I may called them and ask lots of questions.

[Pib]

Just now, Mango Bob said:

I filled out the application form and it is on there also.  Monday I may called them and ask lots of questions.

I would drill them on the deductible to see if it would be allowed for an OA visa plan.  Even with a high deductible a person I expect a person would still need to file the claim with the private insurance company first to log the cost with that company and get a EOB from them which shows no reimbursement so you can then file your Tricare claim.   And I wonder if Tricare will cover costs not paid by your private insurer due to the high deductible....need to do some googling on that.

[Pib]

And I expect not using one of the hospitals the private insurer allows would qualify as not following their rules which means Tricare may also deny the claims.

https://www.tricare.mil/FormsClaims/Claims/MedicalClaims

Quote

 

Coordination of Benefits

• Follow the rules of your other health insurance for getting care and filing claims.
• If your other plan doesn't cover the entire cost, file a claim with TRICARE.
• If your other plan denies a claim for failure to follow their rules, TRICARE may also deny your claim.

 

•  

[Mango Bob]

Pib

 

Like I said I only use Bumrungrad and BNH for all inpatient or outpatient care.  Tricare can not stop me from using them and use a government or private Thai hospital because I have insurance with Pacific Life.  

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Mango Bob said:

Pib

 

Like I said I only use Bumrungrad and BNH for all inpatient or outpatient care.  Tricare can not stop me from using them and use a government or private Thai hospital because I have insurance with Pacific Life.  

Correct....they can not stop you.  Sure you can still use them. 

 

However, Tricare might deny the claim if it violates its Other Health Insurance rules like intentionally not using a hospital within the insurer's approved hospital network.  I'm not saying Tricare would but it's worth scoping that out with Tricare.   If a hospital within the insurer's network could provide the care where the private insurer ends up paying the costs, then the US govt (Tricare) does not get a bill from you.  Uncle Sam don't want to pay insurance bills that the private insurer can/should.    Multiple health insurance policies can be nothing but problems.   Not trying to rain on the parade, but this definitely needs to be consider in making insurance policy choices....how two policies might conflict with each other and the only person hurt in the conflict is the patient.

[Mango Bob]

Pib

 

I don't know how old you are but I am limited to one or two insurance companies here.  I don't have a lot of choices.   Also I just seen that the hospital list is only for the Standard plan not the Platinum Plan. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Pib]

For Tricare covered folks considering Other Health Insurance (OHI) coverage probably best to ask your Tricare claims department how reimbursements would be handled....like how claims with a high deductible OHI policy be handled.....would claims within that deductible limit be considered for Tricare reimbursement.  Probably something that should be scoped out before deciding on which private insurer policy to possibly get.   

https://tricare.mil/FormsClaims/Forms/OHI

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Pib

 

I don't know how old you are but I am limit to one or two policies here.  I don't have a lot of choices.   Also I just seen that the hospital list is only for the Standard plan not the Platinum Plan. 

Understand....just be sure to scope out the OHI issue with Tricare.  Probably worth some googling and calls to their claim department to give examples, ask specific questions like how a high deductible OHI is handled for Tricare reimbursement. 

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Understand....just be sure to scope out the OHI issue with Tricare.  Probably worth some googling and calls to their claim department to give examples, ask specific questions like how a high deductible OHI is handled for Tricare reimbursement. 

I will write to them 

[pontious]

17 minutes ago, huhWTF said:

You seem to understand TRICARE so why are you wasting your time on here? By the way no one said you needed two policies except for you, definitely not immigration that’s for sure.

 

But TI will not accept TRICARE. They are not on the list.

[Mango Bob]

Just now, pontious said:

But TI will not accept TRICARE. They are not on the list.

Yes, we know that.  But if we have to get insurance here.  They pay first and then Tricare would pay.

[pontious]

14 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Yes, we know that.  But if we have to get insurance here.  They pay first and then Tricare would pay.

So you have to have 2 policies. One for Tricare and one to pay Tricare back. ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And now to throw another official dart at the widely scattered Thai Immigration / O-A insurance dartboard....

 

After I got the answer I posted above from the Thai Embassy in Wash. DC re their basic rules for documenting health insurance for new O-A applications, I followed up with another email asking for clarification on our two haunting O-A subjects:

--the status of prior O-A visas for entries AFTER Oct. 31, and

--the status of prior O-A visas when the visa holders go for future extensions of stay.

 

Here's my exact two questions and the answer (in blue) from the Thai Embassy in Wash DC:

 

 

Quote

 

1.  Will the new insurance requirement apply to people with valid O-A visas issued PRIOR TO Oct. 31 when they try to enter Thailand at either airport or land border crossings from Oct. 31 onward?

 

2. Will the new insurance requirement apply to people with O-A visas issued PRIOR TO Oct. 31 when they go to Thai Immigration from Oct. 31 onward to apply for extensions of stay based on retirement or marriage to a Thai citizen?

You should be fine with the valid OA visa that you already have prior to Oct 31, 2019.
 

However, when you apply for an extension of stay, the Immigration may require additional documents as it will be the new regulation by then.  

 

 

 

Take note of their final paragraph relating to extensions of stay...  Although, they do say, Immigration "may"...  So, even the staff at the Embassy apparently don't really know for sure....

 

Regarding their first answer relating to entries with pre-Oct. 31 O-A visas, the Embassy's comment about "should be fine" seems to match with the same advice that's been given TVF members by the L.A. Consulate....for whatever that's worth. IF in answering ... they clearly understood I was asking about Pre 10/31 O-A visas being used for entries AFTER 10/31, which isn't entirely clear from their answer.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

Interesting but it's my strong impression over the years that the last people you want to ask about immigration policies IN Thailand are embassies and consulates. Like they would know the first thing about extensions. Why should they? Completely out of their territory. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Interesting but it's my strong impression over the years that the last people you want to ask about immigration policies IN Thailand are embassies and consulates. Like they would know the first thing about extensions. Why should they? Completely out of their territory. 

 I certainly understand that... But, it's not like Immigration is going to answer emailed inquiries in English...

 

I don't take their comment on extensions as definitive. But they also did answer on prior O-As, which is more in their wheelhouse.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 I certainly understand that... But, it's not like Immigration is going to answer emailed inquiries in English...

 

Sure but I really don't think their answers mean anything. They have about as much knowledge about what happens within Thailand immigration as some random Starbucks barista. I'm even surprised they bothered to answer, but like you say the word "may" watered things down, and it's safe to say for any application you're going to need documents of some kind. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sure but I really don't think their answers mean anything. They have about as much knowledge about what happens within Thailand immigration as some random Starbucks barista. I'm even surprised they bothered to answer, but like you say the word "may" watered things down, and it's safe to say for any application you're going to need documents of some kind. 

 

I was kind of curious whether they MIGHT respond with an answer ruling out anything about O-A-based extensions being affected -- which is the TVF party line here...

 

That the Embassy did NOT rule that out... I find at least of mild interest.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I was kind of curious whether they MIGHT respond with an answer ruling out anything about extensions being affected -- which is the TVF party line here...

 

That the Embassy did NOT rule that out... I find at least of mild interest.

 

OK, but I again I think considering the source what they said is meaningless. 

[SpokaneAl]

OK, but I again I think considering the source what they said is meaningless. 

I am curious as to what makes you conclude that any information from an embassy or consulate is absolutely meaningless. When I ask a precise and specific question and the consulate answers precisely and specifically I should automatically conclude that what they say is meaningless?

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

In that I was very concerned about that question which affects me specifically, I went to the place where I bought my visa and they emailed me back a precise answer.

I will be bringing a copy of that email with me, but again, what do you suggest as a better solution?


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[Martyp]

1 hour ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

I am curious as to what makes you conclude that any information from an embassy or consulate is absolutely meaningless. When I ask a precise and specific question and the consulate answers precisely and specifically I should automatically conclude that what they say is meaningless?

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

In that I was very concerned about that question which affects me specifically, I went to the place where I bought my visa and they emailed me back a precise answer.

I will be bringing a copy of that email with me, but again, what do you suggest as a better solution?


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Thai consulates outside of Thailand are part of the Ministry of Foreign Affair. The Immigration department inside Thailand is not part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. It’s as if I asked the US Department of State about a policy in the US department of Agriculture. Same government but they are not all that integrated. If the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was tightly integrated with the Immigration Department you wouldn’t have so many cases of visas being awarded to travelers only to denied entry at the border. You also wouldn’t have different Thai consulates applying different standards for visas.

 

Their opinion is much more meaningful when the are responding to a consular question for their particular consulate. Asking how they will apply the insurance requirement when awarding a visa is something that they have some expertise in. Their opinion is little better than yours when it comes to what will happen when you apply for an extension a year from now. TVF members, as crazy and paranoid as they are, probably know more about visa extensions inside Thailand.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

The million dollar question from your point of view is will the Insurance be requested for those 'entering' Thailand from 31st onwards, or for those 'issued' the Visa from 31st onwards.

 

In relation to where to go for answers, have you consulted the airline for their opinion.

After all should they allow you to board on 30th, but you're refused entry on 31st, then the airline is responsible to fly you back to your point of departure at their expense.

Do they as yet have a policy in place regarding the Insurance requirement for O-A Visa, the order of which becomes effective on 31st October.

 

Should they allow you to board and you were subsequently refused entry, apart from the e-mail from the Embassy, one would assume the airline would also be taking your corner in any dispute.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

This from the announcement done by immigration that shows the procedure for entry clearly states it is effective like everything else in the order on October 31. It does not apply for OA visas issued before that date.