Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Sheryl 20,641]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

For an OA re-entry ?? 

 

You seem very sure, of a not so certain thing. Time will tell. 

 

For entry on a RE-ENTRY PERMIT.  Not a new O-A entry. (Indeed, since traveling on a re-entry permit the O-A visa has presumably expired).

 

There is a world of difference. One generates a new permission of stay, the other does not..

 

If you read the Police Order it pertains solely to issuance of new permissions of stay and explicitly protects periods of permission of stay already granted.

[LivinLOS 4,925]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

For entry on a RE-ENTRY PERMIT.  Not a new O-A entry. (Indeed, since traveling on a re-entry permit the O-A visa has presumably expired).

 

There is a world of difference. One generates a new permission of stay, the other does not..

 

If you read the Police Order it pertains solely to issuance of new permissions of stay and explicitly protects periods of permission of stay already granted.

And yet all extensions of permission of stay of an OA visa (even one issued years ago) do seem to require it. It is likely that those will get stamped in up to the end date of the insurance. 

 

So why would an extension of permission of stay (and re entry permit) be so different from the initial permission of stay (and re entry permit) ?? And then expecting clarity and accuracy from the 100s of airport IOs. 

 

IMO that doesn't reach the 'of course not' level of certainty. 

[saengd 723]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

For entry on a RE-ENTRY PERMIT.  Not a new O-A entry. (Indeed, since traveling on a re-entry permit the O-A visa has presumably expired).

 

There is a world of difference. One generates a new permission of stay, the other does not..

 

If you read the Police Order it pertains solely to issuance of new permissions of stay and explicitly protects periods of permission of stay already granted.

How does this stack up against what Jip found out when he sat with Immi. in Bangkok and they told him he needed insurance, Jip has extended eight times so that O-A is long gone?

[Sheryl 20,641]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

How does this stack up against what Jip found out when he sat with Immi. in Bangkok and they told him he needed insurance, Jip has extended eight times so that O-A is long gone?

 

Do you mean Pib?

 

That was in regard to extension of stay, which is another long story still being sorted out.

 

it had nothing to do with re-entry on a re-entry permit.

 

No IO anywhere that I have seen has suggested a need for insurance entering on a re-entry permit.

 

 A re-entry permit refers to an already granted permission to stay.  Entering in one does not give any additional time.  Your permission to stay period remains exactly  the same as it was. As it is an al;ready granted period of stay new requirements don't come into play.

 

New period of permission to stay is generated by a new entry under a still valid visa, or by an extension of stay.  Pib's discussion with CW imm (which may have yielded wrong info, time will tell) was in reference to a future extension of stay.

 

The Police Order explicitly states that already granted periods of stay are unaffected.

 

 

[Mango Bob 6,029]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Do you mean Pib?

 

That was in regard to extension of stay, which is another long story still being sorted out.

 

it had nothing to do with re-entry on a re-entry permit.

 

No IO anywhere that I have seen has suggested a need for insurance entering on a re-entry permit.

 

 A re-entry permit refers to an already granted permission to stay.  Entering in one does not give any additional time.  Your permission to stay period remains exactly  the same as it was. As it is an al;ready granted period of stay new requirements don't come into play.

 

New period of permission to stay is generated by a new entry under a still valid visa, or by an extension of stay.  Pib's discussion with CW imm (which may have yielded wrong info, time will tell) was in reference to a future extension of stay.

 

The Police Order explicitly states that already granted periods of stay are unaffected.

 

 

Example is:  You have an extension of stay that expires in 1 Jun 20.  You have not be required to have insurance when you did your extension of stay.  You go away for Christmas and return on 3 Jan 20.  You are still on the current extension of stay.  You need do not need insurance until you apply for your next extension of stay on 1 Jun 20.

Edited October 22 by Mango Bob

[Pib 12,465]

35 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Do you mean Pib?

 

That was in regard to extension of stay, which is another long story still being sorted out.

 

it had nothing to do with re-entry on a re-entry permit.

 

No IO anywhere that I have seen has suggested a need for insurance entering on a re-entry permit.

 

 A re-entry permit refers to an already granted permission to stay.  Entering in one does not give any additional time.  Your permission to stay period remains exactly  the same as it was. As it is an al;ready granted period of stay new requirements don't come into play.

 

New period of permission to stay is generated by a new entry under a still valid visa, or by an extension of stay.  Pib's discussion with CW imm (which may have yielded wrong info, time will tell) was in reference to a future extension of stay.

 

The Police Order explicitly states that already granted periods of stay are unaffected.

 

 

My conversation with the two CW immigration officers regarding my 11 retirement extensions of stay which grew from my 2008 Non-OA visa was come my next retirement extension of stay late next year that since I had the underpinning Non-OA from Christmas past  that I "would" require insurance in order to renew my retirement extension of stay.    

 

They were basically saying it's your old OA which was used to get many more retirement extension of stays is the determining factor as to where insurance is needed or not to renew the extension of stay.  Each officer began looking at my numerous retirement extension of stays in my passport.....going back looking for the type of visa they sprung from...when seeing it was a OA visa from 2008 I got the bad news.

 

CW....or at least the two officers (the bulk of the conversation with one officer) I talked to in the Long Stay section where you apply for extensions of stays....is going on the new rule applies to OAs issued from Christmas past, current, and future; not only those issued after 31 Oct 2019.   Same as some/various other immigration offices are saying.   I repeated the question at least 3 times...expressing disbelief that my old 2008 OA Visa was the determining factor....how it was long expired....how a retirement extension of stay must be different....etc....but each time the officer said the OA was used to get your first extension of stay and effectively numbers 2 thru 11 extension of stay.

 

The officer said right now my options to avoid insurance was to get a Non-O at an embassy outside Thailand or leave and come back on on Visa Exempt entry and start the process to change to a Non-O within Thailand.  

 

I hope and pray HQ gives immigration offices around the country clarifying info on the new police order....like it only applies to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019 if that is what was meant in the order.  But until that happens (not saying it will), that is what CW told me last week in a 10-15 minutes conversation where I repeatedly ask questions, expressed disbelief, asked are you sure, etc.  Time will tell. 

 

 

Edited October 22 by Pib

[domdom 262]

Hello

 

I come to update the situation in Jomtien.. Yesterday a friend with extension of stay expiring on 14th november made his extension (at the early beginning he had a OA visa).. They told him he did not need any insurance and he got back his passport this morning with the extension

 

I went myself this morning to check what they would tell me.. I spoke with the officer of high rank who is located on the left hand side of the entrance door and asked him if I would need an insurance to extend my stay.. His question was " how long is your current extension of stay" I answered one year and he said "no Need"

I insisted, but I heard insurance is compulsory for OA visas now.. His answer was " BUT you don t have a OA visa, you have an extension of stay"

I told him then that I have a foreign insurance and am covered and showed him.. He gave me the paper back.. and repeated 3 times "No need"

 

 

Have a nice day

[ThaiBob 915]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:41 PM, Pib said:

Today I went to the Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) immigration Office (my servicing office) to ask about the insurance requirement.  Like will it apply to me....I'm now on my 11th retirement extension of stay with an underlying OA Visa from 2008.

 

I got to set down with an immigration officer in the Long Stay Section which is the section where a person goes to apply for their annual extension of stay....like I have done 11 times with the 11th time being just a few months ago.  

 

I ask the officer I want to know if the insurance requirement applies in my situation...want more info on the insurance requirement.  I do not say I have an OA visa from Christmas past.  The officer looks at my numerous extension of stay stamps in my passport and looks for the supporting visa in the passport. When she sees it's an OA visa she makes a facial expression indicating she going to give me bad news.  But instead she says follow me and leads me over to another immigration officer to talk to.  I assume this officer to be of the supervisory type as she's in her 50's and occupying the desk that other immigration officers take docs to for final review and approval....final sign off...like the boss for the section. 

 

 

-  For the next 10 to 15 minutes I talk to this officer and she spoke pretty good English.  Once again this officer started scanning thru my numerous extension of stay stamps....back to the OA visa stamp.  And when seeing the OA visa from 2008 there is the bad news is coming facial expression again.  She said, "Yes I will be required to have insurance to extend again."   The new requirement applies all all OA visas issued "before, on, or after" 31 Oct 2019.  No grandfathering....it even applied to my 2008 OA visa.  

 

-  During those 10 to 15 minutes I asked the question at least 3 times in various forms like pointing out my OA visa is from 2008...."an old visa"....I've got 11 extension of stay since that 2008 OA visa expired---she said that didn't make a difference.  The new rule did not apply just to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019....it applied to all OAs...past, current, and future.

 

- She said my only option to avoid the insurance requirement was to switch to a Non-O visa.  We talk for 5 or so minutes on the two ways to do that...either at a Thai embassy outside of Thailand or going the Exempt to Non O method within Thailand.  

 

- So, now that I have had the chance to set down with a supervisory level immigration officer at CW in the very section that processes extension application....the section that has given me 11 extensions of stay so far, I'm fully, 100% convinced the insurance requirement applies to OAs issued "before, on, or after 31 Oct 2019."   No grandfathering.   And I will need to get a Non-O before my current extension of stay expires in late 2020 in order to avoid the insurance requirement.  

 

-  Yeap, I'm now 100% convinced.  And what I was told at CW is in sync with what some other immigration offices like Chiang Mai are telling people.  At least now I will not be reading hundreds of more posts where different people are expressing their opinion on this issue since I've now heard it from the horse's mouth--a CW supervisory level immigration officer....my servicing immigration office.  Didn't get the answer I wanted to hear, but I guess that is life. 

 

- This change is surely going to have a huge negative impact on many especially since the new requirement does not accept foreign medical insurance....foreign medical insurance that is better and lower cost than Thai insurance. 

 

 

I just stumbled across this post. First thanks for your persistence on asking the right questions and getting answers although like others I am afraid this is the answer no one wanted to hear. I do remember when my embassy (USA) stopped granting the income affadavits and I personally went to Jomtien Immigration to get answers. Like you, I talked to the staff first and then the senior desk officer, and was told repeatedly must have 800k in a Thai bank, no 65k per month, no combo method. One friend took his question to the chief of Jomtien Immigration, same answer. Of course, ultimately they were all wrong and dispensing bad information right to the very end. I can only hope that is the case here, not so much for me personally, but for my many friends that have been on O-A permission to stay for many years. 

[Doowat 25]

On 10/16/2019 at 4:50 PM, ubonjoe said:

The effective date of he order is 31 October that means anything done before that date is is not affected. If it was retroactive it would state that and immigration has never done a police order that was retroactive that I am aware of.

I am getting tired of writing the same thing over and over again every time somebody starts a new topic.

I agree with this. Two things:- first the police immigration notice talks about the limit of stay on re entry being limited to the unexpired period of insurance. If you originally entered Thailand on a o/a issued before 31 October 2019, then there wouldn't have been a 'period of insurance' to begin with. Secondly, when I applied for my O/A in September, it was made clear that there is a 3 month window in which to use it.In theory then, I could have entered Thailand for the first time after 31 October on a visa in respect of which was granted before the insurance rule became applicable.

[Tanoshi 2,950]

3 minutes ago, Doowat said:

Secondly, when I applied for my O/A in September, it was made clear that there is a 3 month window in which to use it.In theory then, I could have entered Thailand for the first time after 31 October on a visa in respect of which was granted before the insurance rule became applicable.

You were wrongly informed.

O-A Visas are valid for 1 year.

That means from the date of issue (displayed on the Visa) you can enter anytime up to the 'enter before' date (also displayed on the Visa) and be granted 1 year permission of stay.

 

The single entry 'O' Visa is only valid for 90 days.

[pookondee 400]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

And yet all extensions of permission of stay of an OA visa (even one issued years ago) do seem to require it. It is likely that those will get stamped in up to the end date of the insurance. 

 

So why would an extension of permission of stay (and re entry permit) be so different from the initial permission of stay (and re entry permit) ?? And then expecting clarity and accuracy from the 100s of airport IOs. 

 

IMO that doesn't reach the 'of course not' level of certainty. 

I am only guessing here...

but this seems to all rely on the foriegn Thai consulates being able to vet the persons insurance documentation at the time of applying for the visa.

 

Of course, Thais working and living in consulates in those countries can do it.

 

Actually its the only way...

 

If insurance papers had to be checked in Bangkok or neighbouring countries

then how the heเเ would they be able to check 

insurance policies in French, Italian, 

(and the myriad of other languages)

 

they would need a huge team of translators

[Mango Bob 6,029]

35 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You were wrongly informed.

O-A Visas are valid for 1 year.

That means from the date of issue (displayed on the Visa) you can enter anytime up to the 'enter before' date (also displayed on the Visa) and be granted 1 year permission of stay.

 

The single entry 'O' Visa is only valid for 90 days.

If you got an O/A in the U.S. the visa would state that you have three months to enter Thailand.  If you did not enter during that time your visa is invalided.  I did my O/A in New York in 2005 and I remember it stating that.

 

Once you arrive in Thailand your have 1 year.

 

Edited October 22 by Mango Bob

[RET_OMS_OP__ 0]

My conversation with the two CW immigration officers regarding my 11 retirement extensions of stay which grew from my 2008 Non-OA visa was come my next retirement extension of stay late next year that since I had the underpinning Non-OA from Christmas past  that I "would" require insurance in order to renew my retirement extension of stay.    
 
They were basically saying it's your old OA which was used to get many more retirement extension of stays is the determining factor as to where insurance is needed or not to renew the extension of stay.  Each officer began looking at my numerous retirement extension of stays in my passport.....going back looking for the type of visa they sprung from...when seeing it was a OA visa from 2008 I got the bad news.
 
CW....or at least the two officers (the bulk of the conversation with one officer) I talked to in the Long Stay section where you apply for extensions of stays....is going on the new rule applies to OAs issued from Christmas past, current, and future; not only those issued after 31 Oct 2019.   Same as some/various other immigration offices are saying.   I repeated the question at least 3 times...expressing disbelief that my old 2008 OA Visa was the determining factor....how it was long expired....how a retirement extension of stay must be different....etc....but each time the officer said the OA was used to get your first extension of stay and effectively numbers 2 thru 11 extension of stay.
 
The officer said right now my options to avoid insurance was to get a Non-O at an embassy outside Thailand or leave and come back on on Visa Exempt entry and start the process to change to a Non-O within Thailand.  
 
I hope and pray HQ gives immigration offices around the country clarifying info on the new police order....like it only applies to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019 if that is what was meant in the order.  But until that happens (not saying it will), that is what CW told me last week in a 10-15 minutes conversation where I repeatedly ask questions, expressed disbelief, asked are you sure, etc.  Time will tell. 
 
 

I just stumbled across this post. First thanks for your persistence on asking the right questions and getting answers although like others I am afraid this is the answer no one wanted to hear. I do remember when my embassy (USA) stopped granting the income affadavits and I personally went to Jomtien Immigration to get answers. Like you, I talked to the staff first and then the senior desk officer, and was told repeatedly must have 800k in a Thai bank, no 65k per month, no combo method. One friend took his question to the chief of Jomtien Immigration, same answer. Of course, ultimately they were all wrong and dispensing bad information right to the very end. I can only hope that is the case here, not so much for me personally, but for my many friends that have been on O-A permission to stay for many years. 


I’m a 100% disabled veteran myself 21 years retired Army I called them on Friday and it’s actually not all that hard after all. You just call OCONUS TRICARE NOT the Embassy. Make sure you are enrolled in FMP. If anyone has questions OCONUS TRICARE’s information is right here:


https://tricare.mil/ContactUs/CallUs/OverseasResources

I hope you have this information I promise I will post a topic about it later from one of my more permanent TV accounts lol. Obviously you notice how this information keeps getting mysteriously removed LOL [emoji23]. I will post a topic later from a different TV account from one of my separate devices. I’m on a NON-O anyway so I could care less but I hope this helps other veterans.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl 20,641]

And yet all extensions of permission of stay of an OA visa (even one issued years ago) do seem to require it. It is likely that those will get stamped in up to the end date of the insurance. 
 
So why would an extension of permission of stay (and re entry permit) be so different from the initial permission of stay (and re entry permit) ?? And then expecting clarity and accuracy from the 100s of airport IOs. 
 
IMO that doesn't reach the 'of course not' level of certainty. 

Extension of permission to stay and initial permission to stay (and, in cade of multi entry visas like the OA) new permission to stay on a subsequent visa entry all result in being granted a new duration of stay.

Re-entry permits do not. Utterly different.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi 2,950]

13 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

If you got an O/A in the U.S. the visa would state that you have three months to enter Thailand.  If you did not enter during that time your visa is invalided.  I did my O/A in New York in 2005 and I remember it stating that.

 

Once you arrive in Thailand your have 1 year.

 

All O-A Visas are valid for 1 year to enter Thailand regardless of the issuing Thai Embassy/Consulate.

Perhaps your memory isn't what it once was Bob.

Look at the 'issue' date and the 'enter before' date of your old O-A Visa, I guarantee it is 1 year.