Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So would  you think waving  a copy of the Police Order is going to be successful in convincing a so called  idiot Immigration Officer?

Obviously don't wave anything. And don't in any way act as if you think they are idiots.

 

Wai, smile and very politely (but firmly) state your case and show the relevant part of the order. If necessary apologize but explain you have checked the police order and also called Imm in Bangkok and this is what they say. Reach for your phone to call 1178 -- smiling nicely as you do so.

 

PPP: Patient Polite Persistance

 

often wins the day but must have all 3.

 

If you aren't patient and polite you'll antagonize and that always ends badly.

 

If you're polite but easily fobbed off, fobbed off you will be, as that is far easier for them to do than to research an issue or call in a superior. Only when they realize you aren't going to budge will they condider doing either of those things.

 

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[kingofthemountain]

11 minutes ago, pookondee said:

The O retirements got from in country are obviously exempt because of the

requirement of 800k in a Thai bank

(a benefit to Thailand..again)

But the extension of stay based on retirment (With an initial OA visa years ago)

with the 800 000 in bank method require also  a health insurance after the 31 october

so the exemption for the O (And extension) can not be because of the requirment of

the 800 000 in a thai bank 

 

it's just because they want to do one step after another imo

imagine the mess and the exodus if they put everybody in now.

So today the OA and the extensions of stay linked to the OA

and tomorrow who will be the next?

[digger70]

Yea I talked to Weegee after he got home from Immigration .What he said and what ubonjoe said is Correct.  the insurance requirement is for the O-A  visa that's obtained in ones home country and is valid only for one year. if one want's  an Extension based on retirement after that one doesn't need Insurance But one needs the 2 month THB 800k in the bank before applying for the extension and than the 3 months after application one must still have the THB 800K, after that one must have THB400K that then must be Topped up to THB 800K 2 months before applying for the next Extension 

 

  According to the order, health insurance is not required for those applying for an extension of stay based on retirement and only applies to Non O-A visas. Non O-A visas are obtained from an embassy or consulate outside of Thailand.     Thank you all Kindly  ???? 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Ej2562 said:

Someone, please tell me if the health insurance one has in his home country accept for insurance requirement for Non-imm O-A visa extension?????

If you read the police order it states a Thai Health insurance that must be 'online'??

All speculative or guesswork at this time....

[kingofthemountain]

42 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

...

It now makes sense....if you are here on marriage or retirement, you need money in the bank or an income. If you are on a non-OA visa from abroad you need nothing in a Thai bank, and so need insurance.

No, it doesn't make sense

if you are here on retirement extension (Arriving years ago with a OA visa) with the 800 000 bahts in a thai bank, you need to have money in a thai bank and you need insurance too

it's just a madness

Edited October 17, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

8 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Yea I talked to Weegee after he got home from Immigration .What he said and what ubonjoe said is Correct.  the insurance requirement is for the O-A  visa that's obtained in ones home country and is valid only for one year. if one want's  an Extension based on retirement after that one doesn't need Insurance But one needs the 2 month THB 800k in the bank before applying for the extension and than the 3 months after application one must still have the THB 800K, after that one must have THB400K that then must be Topped up to THB 800K 2 months before applying for the next Extension 

 

  According to the order, health insurance is not required for those applying for an extension of stay based on retirement and only applies to Non O-A visas. Non O-A visas are obtained from an embassy or consulate outside of Thailand.     Thank you all Kindly  ???? 

Nice but it seems some immigration office have not the same lecture of the order

 

[Matzzon]

22 hours ago, weegee said:

Hope this helps you all out a bit more...

Of course it helps a lot to know the facts. The question, though. What should you do with them, when different offices are using different kind of facts?

[Sheryl]

I am guessing, the requirement for insurance for Non O-A is an easy start,

 

since they can get the Thai consulates (in your own country) to vet and approve the

policies in your language.

 

If it comes to getting a second year from that O-A,

they will then insist you arrange the the 2nd years insurance from inside Thailand, from a Thai company...

and bingo..the thai companies then get a cut at the scam (makes sense)

 

The O retirements got from in country are obviously exempt because of the

requirement of 800k in a Thai bank

(a benefit to Thailand..again)

 

Now people will avoid Non O-A and go to METVs or ED,

 

Id say it will force many to come in on a tourist visa and then put 800k in a Thai bank, to get the retirement without insurance.

 

For sure, id sooner bบm out a loss on the bad exchange rate, and have 800k to spend myself,

instead of giving it to scam insurance companies for nothing.

 

 

 

You don't get to spend it, you know.... can't spend any of it for 5/6 months of the year and can't spend hslf if it the remaining months. New rules.

 

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[Caldera]

1 hour ago, SenorJorge said:

Scam country run by criminal gangs

That's what people who go on and on about "getting a proper visa" need to keep in mind. The conditions of a foreigner's - any foreigner's - stay aren't set in stone, they can (and sometimes do) change without much of an advance warning.

 

The "retirement visa" really shouldn't be called that, it's not a visa that allows one to retire in peace. Each and every year, your time is up. You can renew as long as you fulfill the requirements of the day at your local immigration office. I think it's a real shame that there's no real difference between a retiree's first extension and their 10th - jumping hoops never ends!

[Thaidream]

28 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Obviously don't wave anything.

Wai, smile and very politely (but firmly) state your case and show the relevant oart of the order. If necessary apologize but explain you have checked the police order and also called Imm in Bangkok and this is what they say. Reach for your phone to call 1178 -- smiling nicely as you do so.

PPP: Patient Polite Persistance

often wins the day but must have all 3.

If you aren't patient and polite you'll antagonize and that always ends badly.

If you're polite but easily fobbed off, fobbed off you will be, as that is far easier for them to do than to research an issue or call in a superior. Only when they realize you aren't going to budge will they condider doing either of those things.

Exactly correct.   I would add to have both the English and Thai Order- both sections underlined.  

 

IMO- the police order  is very clear who it applies to as in both Thai and English the word ONLY is used to descrive what the order applies to  (ONLY applies to holders of the O-A)

 

The only area that could be misinterpreted is whether it applies to an O-A issued before 31 October 2019 but I would  explain to and IO and show the orderr where it refers to an O-A issues afrer 31 October 2019 . IMO any O-A issued  prior to 31 Oct 2019 has been 'grandfathered' (does not apply) and that would include an extension of steay.

 

Remember when the  other changes were first put out re income and money in the bank - the first few weeks saw all kinds of incorrect answers from not only forum members but IO's- Expect the same until - they get the word.

[Sheryl]

If you read the police order it states a Thai Health insurance that must be 'online'??
All speculative or guesswork at this time....

I suspect that is a translation issue. Obviously it is not required that you purchase insurance online (and from my investigations so far is not even possible with many of the listed companies, at least not yet.)

It may or may not be required that you purchase from one of the listed companies or an affiliate they underwrite for. That remains to be clarified.

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[digger70]

29 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Nice but it seems some immigration office have not the same lecture of the order

 

Well they Should ,But hey this is Thailand  say no more.

[lupin]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

 

It now makes sense....if you are here on marriage or retirement, you need money in the bank or an income. If you are on a non-OA visa from abroad you need nothing in a Thai bank, and so need insurance.

I've said this so many times... the argument that the financial reqs for an in country extension negate the need for insurance falls apart when you consider that the OX visa (obtained outside the kingdom) requires 3 million in a thai bank with the balance not to drop bellow 1.4 mil AND requires health insurance to the same value as the OA

[lupin]

1 hour ago, pookondee said:

The O retirements got from in country are obviously exempt because of the

requirement of 800k in a Thai bank

(a benefit to Thailand..again)

and again.. the argument that the financial reqs for an in country extension negate the need for insurance falls apart when you consider that the OX visa (obtained outside the kingdom) requires 3 million in a thai bank with the balance not to drop bellow 1.4 mil AND requires health insurance to the same value as the OA

[hereforgood]

Nice but it seems some immigration office have not the same lecture of the order
 

Exactly

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[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

Exactly

Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
 

It's hard to really know for sure about the Thai immigration officer thinking behind wildly different interpretations but I wouldn't yet discount the long held theory of the Integrity Legal vlogger lawyer. In his view when it comes to extensions, OA is seen as internal immigration code for ALL extensions based on retirement. Also doesn't the headline of the police order that people are saying here has nothing to do with extensions include the word EXTENSIONS?

Edited October 17, 2019 by Jingthing

[alan grice]

Well they Should ,But hey this is Thailand  say no more.

Or the Ferangs can’t understand the garbled reply.!. I still think Imo Forms were designed by the Village Idiot.Still the same format as 30 years ago.!.[emoji85]


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[Thingamabob]

Some of you guys need to calm down a bit. Just focus on the facts as they are today, and avoid speculation.

[Aforek]

Hello, 

my  extension is due on november 14 th; this morning I went in advance to do it ( O-A ) in Prachinburi I-O and the officer told me that according to the new law, I have to have an insurance in Thailand; I told her that I have one already in my country, but she told me no matter you must have one in Thailand, or I go out of Thailand and ask for O visa 

I guess she is wrong, can you tell me where I can find an official text in thai language which explains that it's only for new O-A 

Thanks a lot 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, lupin said:

and again.. the argument that the financial reqs for an in country extension negate the need for insurance falls apart when you consider that the OX visa (obtained outside the kingdom) requires 3 million in a thai bank with the balance not to drop bellow 1.4 mil AND requires health insurance to the same value as the OA

Comparing a NON-OX visa to a OA is about like comparing apples to oranges.

The OX visa allow two 5 year multiple entry visas that allows unlimited 1 year entries.

I suspect the insurance was put in to satisfy those doing the approval do it. There was no discussion at time for insurance for any other visa at that time.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Hello, 

my  extension is due on november 14 th; this morning I went in advance to do it ( O-A ) in Prachinburi I-O and the officer told me that according to the new law, I have to have an insurance in Thailand; I told her that I have one already in my country, but she told me no matter you must have one in Thailand, or I go out of Thailand and ask for O visa 

I guess she is wrong, can you tell me where I can find an official text in thai language which explains that it's only for new O-A 

Thanks a lot 

This is in Thai and english. Immigration order for OA insurance.pdf

[lupin]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Comparing a NON-OX visa to a OA is about like comparing apples to oranges.

The OX visa allow two 5 year multiple entry visas that allows unlimited 1 year entries.

I suspect the insurance was put in to satisfy those doing the approval do it. There was no discussion at time for insurance for any other visa at that time.

Aware of that.. was pointing out that its not a given that:

"The O retirements got from in country are obviously exempt because of the requirement of 800k in a Thai bank"

Its not "obvious" at all.

[Jingthing]

My reading of the English version, Page 8, for what it's worth which probably isn't much because I'm waiting for ACTUAL reports of enforcement starting next month.

 

The HEADING says it's about EXTENSIONS.

 

In the items O visa are never mentioned at all but non-immigrant visas are which include O and OA.

 

Item (6) does specifically mention OA which supports the argument that people starting with O should not be effected.

 

However as it's a chart titled EXTENSIONS, it seems to me that item suggests that all extensions where the start visa was OA will be under the insurance requirement. It doesn't indicate whether that refers to OA visa obtained before Oct 31 or not. It suggests the only acceptable source is from the online Thai insurance website.

 

Enjoy.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, lupin said:

Aware of that.. was pointing out that its not a given that:

"The O retirements got from in country are obviously exempt because of the requirement of 800k in a Thai bank"

Its not "obvious" at all.

Very little is obvious yet.

[Aforek]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

This is in Thai and english. Immigration order for OA insurance.pdf

thanks, but the ( 6 ) is not clear : only for an alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant visa cla  O-A , must buy a thai insurance online etc 

of course I was granted an O-A visa, they don't speak of a new visa , neither of an old visa ( mine is 9 years old ) , again interpretation 

[DavidM121]

Sorry, I posted this before I realised it had already been posted on page 2.
There are a number of references in this thread to the Royal Thai Police Order No 548/2562.

 

Here is the text with section on health insurance in red font

Subject: Amendment for Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom

 

Pursuant to the Order of the Royal Thai Police no 327/2357 dated June 30 2014 concerning the Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application

for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom, amended by the Order of the Royal Thai Police 10.35/2562 dated January 18, 2019 concerning the Amendment for Criteria

and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom,

 

It is deemed expedient to amend the Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom in accordance with the Cabinet Resolution as of April 2, 2019 which approved in principle to add a criterion for consideration concerning a health insurance requirement for an alien applying for Non-Immigrant Visa Class A (not exceeding 1 year)

 

By virtue of Section 11(4) of the Royal Thai Police Act BE 2547 the Commissioner General of the Royal Thai Police issues the following describing the Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application  for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom under Paragraph 3, Section 35 F the Immigration Act B.E.2522 as follows

 

1.  To repeal the Article 2.22 of the Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom attached to the Order of the Royal Thai Police no 327/2557 dated June 30, 2014 concerning the Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom, amended by the Order of Royal Thai Police no 35/2562 dated January 18, 2019 concerning the Amendment for Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom and shall be superseded by the article attached to this order

 

2.  An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class (not exceeding 1 year) and has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom below this one is effective, will be able to continually stay in the Kingdom for a granted length of stay

 

This order is effective as of October 31, 2019

 

Police General Chakthip Chaijinda

Commissioner General of the Royal Thai

 

on O-A Visa. Thai Police Order 548/2562 Effective 31 Oct

Edited October 17, 2019 by DavidM121
Info has already been posted

[Jingthing]

Just now, Aforek said:

thanks, but the ( 6 ) is not clear : only for an alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant visa cla  O-A , must buy a thai insurance online etc 

of course I was granted an O-A visa, they don't speak of a new visa , neither of an old visa ( mine is 9 years old ) , again interpretation 

You're very correct. It is not clear at all. It would be nice if immigration would test out the language of their English with focus groups of knowledgeable expats to get feedback on what they think it means, what's clear and what's unclear before actually publishing them! Pipe dream I know. Presumably they know what they meant by this order but the audience does not. What a mess. 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My reading of the English version, Page 8, for what it's worth which probably isn't much because I'm waiting for ACTUAL reports of enforcement starting next month.

Best to read the 2nd paragraph of page 7 that states this.

 

 

Where are OA visas applied for?

[LivinLOS]

Crucially what would appear to be established beyond reasonable doubt now is that this DOES apply to extensions. For months now folks have been saying this only applied to obtaining a visa outside Thailand and wouldnt be applied to extending incounty at all, for any class O-A included. The idea that it was for VISAS not extensions of permissions of stay, seems to be an incorrect assumption. 

Secondly a VISA can expire the moment its used if its a single, the permission of stay it generates was always logically considered independent of the visa that generated it, if I arrived on a non imm O for marriage, but then went to extend on the basis of retirement, there was no relation to my marriage proofs which generated the permission of stay, similarly if I arrived on a retirement visa, but then wished to add a 60 day extension due to family the visa that created the permission of stay was irrelevant to the extension process. This new immigration thinking breaks that entire line of logic and once again confuses the issues and nomenclature of visas and permissions of stay. 

 

My gut feeling say if they impose this rule to O-A generated permission of stay extensions, and then see 1000s simply sidestep it by going and getting a single non imm O simply to avoid the requirement, they will see that as avoiding the rule and the spirit of the law. 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There was an irresponsible thread started about CM which wrongly stated this, if you review the supposed supporting documentation in that thread you will see that instead ithe IO  clearly stated O-A visa only.

The point of that thread was to state that extensions are being forced to have insurance, for months people have been stating that it was only VISAS and not extensions of permission of stay. That incountry this would not be applied. 

There is also a lot of confusion at present with some agents claiming extensions of retirement may or may not come under it. What defines an OA extension (if converting a marriage visa for example) versus an O extension.. That is wildly up in the air and will I predict be a mess for the next year. 

What is no longer in doubt, and the purpose of that thread, is that immigration ARE demanding insurance to extend permissions of stay, not only at the time of visa issue.