Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[LivinLOS]

On 10/16/2019 at 8:27 AM, MJKT2014 said:

Read the police order 548/2562 on the Imm Web site . Clearly states only Non O-A visa applicants need insurance. Extenders don't need once inside Thailand. 

This is what people believed.. This doesnt seem to be what immigration believe in some places. Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Prachinburi, to name a few so far. 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Obviously don't wave anything. And don't in any way act as if you think they are idiots.

 

Wai, smile and very politely (but firmly) state your case and show the relevant part of the order. If necessary apologize but explain you have checked the police order and also called Imm in Bangkok and this is what they say. Reach for your phone to call 1178 -- smiling nicely as you do so.

 

PPP: Patient Polite Persistance

 

often wins the day but must have all 3.

 

If you aren't patient and polite you'll antagonize and that always ends badly.

 

If you're polite but easily fobbed off, fobbed off you will be, as that is far easier for them to do than to research an issue or call in a superior. Only when they realize you aren't going to budge will they condider doing either of those things.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

So your still saying that OA visa users, which generated a permission of stay, and now look to extend that permission of stay, should show the police order and say this only applied to the initial issuance of the visa ?? 

Just checking for clarity as thats clearly not whats being said in the real world. Easily fobbed off or not. 
 

[weegee]

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

Yea I talked to Weegee after he got home from Immigration .What he said and what ubonjoe said is Correct.  the insurance requirement is for the O-A  visa that's obtained in ones home country and is valid only for one year. if one want's  an Extension based on retirement after that one doesn't need Insurance But one needs the 2 month THB 800k in the bank before applying for the extension and than the 3 months after application one must still have the THB 800K, after that one must have THB400K that then must be Topped up to THB 800K 2 months before applying for the next Extension 

 

  According to the order, health insurance is not required for those applying for an extension of stay based on retirement and only applies to Non O-A visas. Non O-A visas are obtained from an embassy or consulate outside of Thailand.     Thank you all Kindly  ???? 

Exactly....and thanks. The Immigration Depts are all falling into Sync at last....I believe everything I was told yesterday by Immigration was correct. They were so helpful and friendly about the great list of questions i had with me...I came away Happy.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Best to read the 2nd paragraph of page 7 that states this.

 

 

Where are OA visas applied for?

Outside Thailand of course. But can you explain why the item about OA (in the Page 8 chart) is under a headline saying EXTENSIONS? Is that a mistake? Are you sure it means nothing to be under a headline saying EXTENSIONS? Could it be it will apply to OA visas abroad, reentries while still valid at airports/borders, and also extensions with a base O-A? 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Jingthing

[ICELANDMAN]

11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The point of that thread was to state that extensions are being forced to have insurance, for months people have been stating that it was only VISAS and not extensions of permission of stay. That incountry this would not be applied. 

There is also a lot of confusion at present with some agents claiming extensions of retirement may or may not come under it. What defines an OA extension (if converting a marriage visa for example) versus an O extension.. That is wildly up in the air and will I predict be a mess for the next year. 

What is no longer in doubt, and the purpose of that thread, is that immigration ARE demanding insurance to extend permissions of stay, not only at the time of visa issue. 

  I agree,  There is only one solution waiting to see what happens, after 31 October we will know what was decided and if we would have serious problems.

 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

Last point.. On the issue of how crazy it is to use extensions of permissions of stay and attempt to trace them back.. 

 

What about the person who obtains an OA visa.. Extends on a marriage class.. Stays on that for a few years.. And now goes in for a retirement extension ?? 

The point I am making is non imm extensions of a permission of stay were always independent of the visa that generated that permission of stay. This new implementation breaks that entire system of logic. 

Because of this break, I would assume it either 'should' never apply to extensions (of retirement, they all default to O rules) or always apply to retirement (they all default to OA rules). Its utterly ridiculous to impose a some do some dont basis when there can have been so many non OA extensions in between. 

Lastly, who wants an OA now ?? Everyone will skip that and go for the O every time. 

[Mango Bob]

If you take the time to read the police order it clearly start a non 0/a visa.

 

Read the police order in English and Thai here:  

 

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This is what people believed.. This doesnt seem to be what immigration believe in some places. Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Prachinburi, to name a few so far. 

Where have you seen a report on Prachinburi???

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

So your still saying that OA visa users, which generated a permission of stay, and now look to extend that permission of stay, should show the police order and say this only applied to the initial issuance of the visa ?? 


 

Please reread my post. I did not say that at all.

 

I said anyone on an O visa (not an O-A) being told they need insurance for extensiopn of stay should do that as it is crystal clear in the Police Order, even going so far as to say "only O-A".

[crazykopite]

Question . My next door neighbour who is English and comes to Thailand every year for between 6/8 months arrived in mid September on his usual O-A visa at the time there was no requirement for insurance . He will do his 90 day report in December will he have to have insurance prior to his visit or is this insurance requirement only for those who arrive after the date the law was passed , he is 75 not of great health but has always had sufficient monies to cover any minor hospital treatments.

[Sheryl]

26 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The point of that thread was to state that extensions are being forced to have insurance, for months people have been stating that it was only VISAS and not extensions of permission of stay. That incountry this would not be applied. 

There is also a lot of confusion at present with some agents claiming extensions of retirement may or may not come under it. What defines an OA extension (if converting a marriage visa for example) versus an O extension.. That is wildly up in the air and will I predict be a mess for the next year. 

What is no longer in doubt, and the purpose of that thread, is that immigration ARE demanding insurance to extend permissions of stay, not only at the time of visa issue. 

 

the thread quite wrongly stated CM was requiring this for extensions of stay of O visas. The video posted in the thread clearly shows IO stating O-A visa only.

[Mango Bob]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Where have you seen a report on Prachinburi???

I seen it but I can't remember what post it was on. 

[Aforek]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Where have you seen a report on Prachinburi???

read my post  109

[deej]

36 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This is what people believed.. This doesnt seem to be what immigration believe in some places. Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Prachinburi, to name a few so far. 

All hot and gas 

May i ask for

 Immgr  Dept Police orders  particular Cmai to support  your  above  post or views

Edited October 17, 2019 by deej

[lupin]

I'm far less concerned by the nuance of whether this will apply to extensions of an original perhaps long past OA, (the debate on that will be moot within weeks) than I am about the utter lunacy of having to ditch far superior worldwide coverage in favor of a Thai approved policy (at least after the first year) which - by default - necessitates a new policy for those who are too old to get insurance, or now have to pay ridiculous premiums to get insurance because of their age (and now maintain TWO policies if they want to keep their superior coverage for use in home country)

 

On top of that, @Sheryl points out the uncertainty over those already covered in Thailand with SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai with government insurance as well. Not to mention US military that again are already covered.

 

 insanity

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, crazykopite said:

Question . My next door neighbour who is English and comes to Thailand every year for between 6/8 months arrived in mid September on his usual O-A visa at the time there was no requirement for insurance . He will do his 90 day report in December will he have to have insurance prior to his visit or is this insurance requirement only for those who arrive after the date the law was passed , he is 75 not of great health but has always had sufficient monies to cover any minor hospital treatments.

 

90 day reporting has nothing to do with it. Even people required to have insurance, no reason to think it would be checked for at time of 90 day report (which by the way can be done online in many provinces and also by mail).

 

Further, the Police Order clearly states that anyone granted stamped in on an O-A visa prior to 31 October is exempted from insurance requirement for the duration of the permission to stay that has already been granted.

 

Now, to apply for any additional O-A visas in future he will be required to have insurance.  And if when he came in this was his first entry under that O-A visa (and not his second entry) he might or might not be asked to show proof of insurance on his next entry,  There are differences in interpretation around the wording re effective date vs entry date. This will become clearer after the 31st.

 

From what you describe of him, he is very much the sort of "high risk" person government is concerned about and he should be concerned on his own behalf as well.  Having been able to afford minor treatments in no way predicts his ability to afford a major hospitalization which easily costs in the millions of baht. 

 

You should have a frank discussion with him on that point.  That, and his long term plan because at present there is only one plan available among the approved companies that will insure him and guarantee renewal up to age 99, and that plan (Pacific Cross) can only be applied to up to age 75 so he would  have to act now.  They might or might not insure him given pre-existing conditions but only one way to find out. (I do not include another plan that will insure up to age 80 because they discontinue coverage at age 81.)

[PETERHOF]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Where have you seen a report on Prachinburi???

Aforek Post N°109, 2 hours ago :

 

Hello, 

my  extension is due on november 14 th; this morning I went in advance to do it ( O-A ) in Prachinburi I-O and the officer told me that according to the new law, I have to have an insurance in Thailand; I told her that I have one already in my country, but she told me no matter you must have one in Thailand, or I go out of Thailand and ask for O visa 

I guess she is wrong, can you tell me where I can find an official text in thai language which explains that it's only for new O-A 

Thanks a lot 

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, lupin said:

I'm far less concerned by the nuance of whether this will apply to extensions of an original perhaps long past OA, (the debate on that will be moot within weeks) than I am about the utter lunacy of having to ditch far superior worldwide coverage in favor of a Thai approved policy (at least after the first year) which - by default - necessitates a new policy for those who are too old to get insurance, or now have to pay ridiculous premiums to get insurance because of their age (and now maintain TWO policies if they want to keep their superior coverage for use in home country)

 

On top of that, @Sheryl points out the uncertainty over those already covered in Thailand with SS by virtue of marriage to a Thai with government insurance as well. Not to mention US military that again are already covered.

 

 insanity

Yes depending on how this is enforced, this will be the final straw for many long term expats. 

 

I guess it doesn't matter IF the authorities are trying to get rid of a lot of us. The rules are having that same effect regardless of the intentions. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Aforek said:

thanks, but the ( 6 ) is not clear : only for an alien, who has been granted Non-immigrant visa cla  O-A , must buy a thai insurance online etc 

of course I was granted an O-A visa, they don't speak of a new visa , neither of an old visa ( mine is 9 years old ) , again interpretation 

My advice would be to call the Immigration advice line in Bangkok, I think 1178 and ask them. The wording in English, as you see, is open to differing interpretations and may also be not so clear in Thai.

 

If they tell you that it applies only to newly issued O-As tell them what happened in Prachinburi and ask what you can do about it.

 

If you do need insurance there is info on options in a thread in the Health Forum. Basically - contact a broker (I would suggest AA) and ask about April My Health Thailand if you are under 65, or Pacific Cross if you are between 65 - 75.

[Mango Bob]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

My advice would be to call the Immigration advice line in Bangkok, I think 1178 and ask them. The wording in English, as you see, is open to differing interpretations and may also be not so clear in Thai.

 

If they tell you that it applies only to newly issued O-As tell them what happened in Prachinburi and ask what you can do about it.

 

If you do need insurance there is info on options in a thread in the Health Forum. Basically - contact a broker (I would suggest AA) and ask about April My Health Thailand if you are under 65, or Pacific Cross if you are between 65 - 75.

The police order states it is effective as of 31 Oct 19.  Anything before that date does not need the insurance.

[Sheryl]

44 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This is what people believed.. This doesnt seem to be what immigration believe in some places. Chiang Mai, Jomtien, Prachinburi, to name a few so far. 

 

It is true that there have been reports of these locations telling people that they need insurance to do an extension of stay if they entered  on an O-A visa. And  reports of other location saying the opposite. And I think I saw one that said need if extending for the very first time and not if already got at least one extension. In other words, there is confusion on this point. Which does nto surprise me given the way the Police Order is worded and structured.

 

What there has not been that I have seen is a single report of an IO saying that insurance is required for extensions under an O visa. There is no possible misinterpretation of the Police Order, in English or in Thai, r on that score.

 

You may believe that extensions are completely independent of the original visa but Imm does not. The original visa type is not only retained in the file but re-entered as part of each  and every extension request.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, PETERHOF said:

Aforek Post N°109, 2 hours ago :

 

Hello, 

my  extension is due on november 14 th; this morning I went in advance to do it ( O-A ) in Prachinburi I-O and the officer told me that according to the new law, I have to have an insurance in Thailand; I told her that I have one already in my country, but she told me no matter you must have one in Thailand, or I go out of Thailand and ask for O visa 

I guess she is wrong, can you tell me where I can find an official text in thai language which explains that it's only for new O-A 

Thanks a lot 

 

 

Thanks for that - reassuring for me as I'm in  Prachinburi and on an O. And not able to pop into Imm any time soon  to ask.

 

Obviously not reassuring for the poster but I do note that they suggest the option of re-entering on an O. If I were him, I  would first try to straighten this out through a call to Bangkok but, if that fails , keep that as a Plan B.

[Aforek]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Thanks for that - reassuring for me as I'm in  Prachinburi and on an O. And not able to pop into Imm any time soon  to ask.

 

Obviously not reassuring for the poster but I do note that they suggest the option of re-entering on an O. If I were him, I  would first try to straighten this out through a call to Bangkok but, if that fails , keep that as a Plan B.

Thanks, I shall  do it ; for visa O, can I have on in a surrounding country ? extension is easy ? because I would like to my insurance in my country

thanks 

[KhunFred]

That is certainly good news but we should remember that IO is in a state of flux and everything is subject to change on a whim. Many expats are looking at Vietnam.

[erymax]

This is how I read and understand the new police order:

 

The police order amended the criteria of Consideration for granting the extension of stay. They added a new criteria which requires insurance if an applicant has been granted an OA visa (whenever). (6)  "it does not say only after 31.10.2019'

 

My understanding is unfortunately. we all, who came whenever with OA visa  and applying for extension of the permission to stay, the new amendment applies after 31.10.2019.

 

The last part of the order is dealing with the criteria of consideration for permission of stay after one year entering with OA.  

Me personally am due for extension end of May 2020 and considering to leave Thailand and live in Europe. The money required in the Bank I can use in Europe somewhere to buy a worthy Health insurance or stay 6 months a year in UK.  

[Mango Bob]

4 minutes ago, erymax said:

This is how I read and understand the new police order:

 

The police order amended the criteria of Consideration for granting the extension of stay. They added a new criteria which requires insurance if an applicant has been granted an OA visa (whenever). (6)  "it does not say only after 31.10.2019'

 

My understanding is unfortunately. we all, who came whenever with OA visa  and applying for extension of the permission to stay, the new amendment applies after 31.10.2019.

 

The last part of the order is dealing with the criteria of consideration for permission of stay after one year entering with OA.  

Me personally am due for extension end of May 2020 and considering to leave Thailand and live in Europe. The money required in the Bank I can use in Europe somewhere to buy a worthy Health insurance or stay 6 months a year in UK.  

It does say "This order is effective as of 31 October 2019.   It is on the bottom of the first page (of the police order).

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Mango Bob said:

It does say "This order is effective as of 31 October 2019.   It is on the bottom of the first page.

Yeah so what?

That doesn't clarify whether it would apply to OA based extensions after that date, or not. 

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Thanks, I shall  do it ; for visa O, can I have on in a surrounding country ? extension is easy ? because I would like to my insurance in my country

thanks 

I think you might be able to get an O in the region but the person to ask for sure  is @UbonJoe.

 

I do not advise anyone to drop a good foreign insurance policy, even if buying a local one to meet visa requirements.

 

There is still some hope that foreign policies will be accepted by Imm but this remains to be clarified and I would not count on it given how soon you need to extend.  Also,  best case scenario you would need to get your insurer to sign off on a certificate with wording as shown on longstay.tgia website (click on O-A then guidelines) and that may be difficult.

[bkk6060]

I would follow no order or assume anything on this.

I mentioned before I know a few officers in the north who work at immigration.

They are under the impression it includes retirement extensions.

 

So, fight it the best you can but I would go to the office before and speak to a supervisor and confirm.

If they insist you need to have it then I guess you will have to deal with it.

[erymax]

2 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

It does say "This order is effective as of 31 October 2019.   It is on the bottom of the first page.

Yes, this order to amend the criteria for granting an extension of stay according to (6) requires health insurance if OA visa has been granted and you extending the permission of stay is effective after 31 October 2019.