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What drill size is this saying?

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If you turn over the box it usually tells you a lot. This one says: (1) what screw size and length to use, (2) what drill bit size to use, (3) depth to drill in wall, and (4) fixture size the plug can safely support.

 

plug.jpg.c1fb0dcca2ef792119864f7706034ab4.jpg

 

The book for Q-CON suggests selecting a drill bit the same size of the plug or up to 1mm smaller. Like others, I prefer undersizing the bit to make the plug extra tight. I also like drilling at a very slight down angle to resist pull out.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, canopy said:

If you turn over the box it usually tells you a lot. This one says: (1) what screw size and length to use, (2) what drill bit size to use, (3) depth to drill in wall, and (4) fixture size the plug can safely support.

 

plug.jpg.c1fb0dcca2ef792119864f7706034ab4.jpg

 

The book for Q-CON suggests selecting a drill bit the same size of the plug or up to 1mm smaller. Like others, I prefer undersizing the bit to make the plug extra tight. I also like drilling at a very slight down angle to resist pull out.

 

 

For AAC (Q-CON) the best plugs I have found are indeed the ones you show, this is a better picture

IMG_8525.PNG.945f93f8cc67e59507d843e7237061c8.PNG

 

though do not drill undersized if going into a post or column as they will deform as you try to get them in DAMHIKT. I also use a punch (steel rod slightly larger in diameter than the plug (a nail reversed will work) to sink them slightly under the wall surface this means that the item I'm fitting is flush to the wall.

IMG_8527.JPG.c1961caae2a16e2f11084027d76ea8ec.JPGIMG_8528.thumb.JPG.7b074b8291b35a54c34696f0fa8ea171.JPG

Edited by sometimewoodworker

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16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

though do not drill undersized if going into a post or column

Simple rule: if you are going into AAC then use metal plugs. Everything else like concrete or red bricks use plastic plugs. Never use plastic plugs on AAC and never use metal plugs on concrete.

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I also use a punch...to sink them slightly under the wall surface

Me too. This is especially good for assuring the hammer does not bang against/harm the finished wall.

 

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8 minutes ago, canopy said:

Simple rule: if you are going into AAC then use metal plugs. Everything else like concrete or red bricks use plastic plugs. Never use plastic plugs on AAC and never use metal plugs on concrete.

Not saying the "rule" is right or wrong, but can you explain it?  FWIW: I have many, many plastic plugs in "Super Block" AAC and, except when the hole is too big, have never had issues.  These support everything from hooks and paintings to kitchen cabinets.

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The short answer is whole reason they made the steel ones is the plastic ones don't work right with AAC. The plastic ones can more easily pull out, spin in place, and loosen over time. Wrong fastener for the job. The steel ones have fins that are designed to drive into AAC block and then bite in real good with the screw winching the tapered and ribbed sides into place. You don't get any of that with the plastic ones that are a simple friction joint and that friction can lead to crushing AAC grits or be very weak rather than actual tightening unlike when used with stronger materials like concrete and red bricks. I don't like the "it's worked so far" approach to validating a building choice and instead want to understand what has been engineer approved and up to date. The steel ones aren't expensive so I just don't know why a knowledgeable person would deliberately chance opening a can of worms. Better to have peace of mind, no worries sleeping at night, and not chancing needing to go back and fix things you just got done doing I think.

 

Edited by canopy
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5 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Not saying the "rule" is right or wrong, but can you explain it?  FWIW: I have many, many plastic plugs in "Super Block" AAC and, except when the hole is too big, have never had issues.  These support everything from hooks and paintings to kitchen cabinets.

The saw steel plugs in AAC blocks have a phenomenal holding power due to the way the legs expand and bite into the blocks whereas plastic plugs just expand uniformly, as the AAC blocks are relatively soft a plastic plug will have very much less resistance to a direct pull than the ones illustrated. For holding things in shear the length and strength of the screw is the important factor not the holding power of the plugs.

 

So for hooks and paintings any reasonable plugs will do, though if you are putting up kitchen cabinets that will be loaded with china, so very heavy, I personally will use metal plugs, maybe overkill but I will have peace of mind.

 

For my French cleat system in my workshop I can't guarantee that there will be little pulling force, so rather than taking any risks I have standardised on those metal plugs in various sizes.

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Not aware steel plugs were invented due AAC - seem to recall them being in use 50 years ago.  And would and do use for any heavy duty use regardless of cement type.  Agree in AAC they would be a much better option as that stuff crumbles easily (like drilling through butter).

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46 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not aware steel plugs were invented due AAC - seem to recall them being in use 50 years ago.  And would and do use for any heavy duty use regardless of cement type.  Agree in AAC they would be a much better option as that stuff crumbles easily (like drilling through butter).

AFIK all the older style metal plugs worked on just expanding a relatively smooth body to grip and I was using them 50 years ago myself. I think the saw edged version may be designed for AAC and relatively new. Although AAC have been around for quite a few decades so maybe the saw edge plugs are not so new either.

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Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

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1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

Good to know that, the best place if you want a supply of just the plugs, at least round here, is Thai Watsadu, you can easily find smaller quantities on Lazada though I think the price might be a little high. AFIK these are the available sizes.

IMG_8537.thumb.JPG.44221b08d03a044ec719a28a43325297.JPG

the smallest screw I use is a No 7 the biggest a No 12

 

 

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13 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

It's like saying "i put a wheel on my car omitting one of the lug nuts and so far it hasn't fallen off so I am thinking it's safe". That doesn't sound terribly reassuring. The cabinets could already be in a state of failure or they could last forever; we just don't know. If at anytime a kid were to pull themselves up using a cabinet door or something else unusual happens the results might not be so good. It's the really rare but inevitable abnormal usage, not the normal everyday usage of a product that tells you about the quality of what you have. A lot of things in Thailand work fine until that big storm hits, then they just blame the storm.

 

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14 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, I did ask so thanks for the info. I didn't know about the steel plugs so will probably get some. As far as "it's worked so far", I'm OK with that. The cabinets, for example, have been holding fine for 10 years. 

My cabinets don't rely on any wall plugs, they are all tied into the steel joists above the drop ceiling.  They are really heavy, I know because I built them reworking under counter cabinet doors that I bought from Home Pro.

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