Monomial Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Can one of you who has actually studied this "deal" explain it to me? I am neither a UK citizen nor a citizen of the EU, so I have little skin in the game other than that our company has a significant number of customers in the UK and if the GBP falls off a cliff it is going to hurt. But I just can't understand how this "deal" will work. From what I have read, Boris needs all 10 DUP ministers and at least 8 Labour ministers to support this in order to get it passed over the ones who have already flat out said they will reject any deal. But at the same time, I read that Boris has completely capitulated to the EU over the issue of VAT, and agreed that NI will be taxed at the EU rates independent of the rest of the country. This is baffling to me. Since he absolutely has to have DUP support in order to get this passed, this seems totally counter productive. Why would any DUP minister support a deal that penalizes them with potentially higher taxes than the rest of the country? Lowering VAT is one of the easiest ways a country can stimulate its economy. It is almost inconceivable to me the UK won't use this lever when the economy starts going south (and let's be honest, the whole global economy is heading to the dumpster). How could anyone in the DUP then, agree to punish their residents in this manner? It just doesn't seem to me there is a snowball's chance in H-E-double toothpicks that this can pass, as without the DUP this whole thing goes nowhere. Why would the EU even request something like this? Have I completely missed something here? Is there some kind of VAT refund in the deal that will be offered to NI residents? I would love to hear a coherent analysis on how the current deal can possibly work? Anyone? As I said, I don't have a direct stake in this fight, but the whole world will be affected by the changes to the currency markets. Just trying to figure out what prevantative measures are necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybiker Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Can one of you who has actually studied this "deal" explain it to me? I am neither a UK citizen nor a citizen of the EU, so I have little skin in the game other than that our company has a significant number of customers in the UK and if the GBP falls off a cliff it is going to hurt. But I just can't understand how this "deal" will work. From what I have read, Boris needs all 10 DUP ministers and at least 8 Labour ministers to support this in order to get it passed over the ones who have already flat out said they will reject any deal. But at the same time, I read that Boris has completely capitulated to the EU over the issue of VAT, and agreed that NI will be taxed at the EU rates independent of the rest of the country. This is baffling to me. Since he absolutely has to have DUP support in order to get this passed, this seems totally counter productive. Why would any DUP minister support a deal that penalizes them with potentially higher taxes than the rest of the country? Lowering VAT is one of the easiest ways a country can stimulate its economy. It is almost inconceivable to me the UK won't use this lever when the economy starts going south (and let's be honest, the whole global economy is heading to the dumpster). How could anyone in the DUP then, agree to punish their residents in this manner? It just doesn't seem to me there is a snowball's chance in H-E-double toothpicks that this can pass, as without the DUP this whole thing goes nowhere. Why would the EU even request something like this? Have I completely missed something here? Is there some kind of VAT refund in the deal that will be offered to NI residents? I would love to hear a coherent analysis on how the current deal can possibly work? Anyone? As I said, I don't have a direct stake in this fight, but the whole world will be affected by the changes to the currency markets. Just trying to figure out what prevantative measures are necessary. This may or may not aid your queries, bear in mind this deal is not final, No Deal is still legal default & possibility hence why both sides were so keen to get this resolved PDQ.BBC News - Brexit: What is in Boris Johnson's new deal with the EU?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50083026Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Monomial said: Can one of you who has actually studied this "deal" explain it to me? Well , strictly speaking it is not yet a done deal because it still needs to get approved by parliament. If it is accepted then the real analysis can commence. Teresa May came home with a deal. Didn't get to far with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauptmannUK Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Boris will spend tomorrow organising for the DUP to be paid off in return for their support. £Billions more going into Northern Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, Monomial said: Can one of you who has actually studied this "deal" explain it to me? I am neither a UK citizen nor a citizen of the EU, so I have little skin in the game other than that our company has a significant number of customers in the UK and if the GBP falls off a cliff it is going to hurt. But I just can't understand how this "deal" will work. From what I have read, Boris needs all 10 DUP ministers and at least 8 Labour ministers to support this in order to get it passed over the ones who have already flat out said they will reject any deal. But at the same time, I read that Boris has completely capitulated to the EU over the issue of VAT, and agreed that NI will be taxed at the EU rates independent of the rest of the country. This is baffling to me. Since he absolutely has to have DUP support in order to get this passed, this seems totally counter productive. Why would any DUP minister support a deal that penalizes them with potentially higher taxes than the rest of the country? Lowering VAT is one of the easiest ways a country can stimulate its economy. It is almost inconceivable to me the UK won't use this lever when the economy starts going south (and let's be honest, the whole global economy is heading to the dumpster). How could anyone in the DUP then, agree to punish their residents in this manner? It just doesn't seem to me there is a snowball's chance in H-E-double toothpicks that this can pass, as without the DUP this whole thing goes nowhere. Why would the EU even request something like this? Have I completely missed something here? Is there some kind of VAT refund in the deal that will be offered to NI residents? I would love to hear a coherent analysis on how the current deal can possibly work? Anyone? As I said, I don't have a direct stake in this fight, but the whole world will be affected by the changes to the currency markets. Just trying to figure out what prevantative measures are necessary. QUOTE: Lowering VAT is one of the easiest ways a country can stimulate its economy. It is almost inconceivable to me the UK won't use this lever when the economy starts going south I think I discovered your hidden agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin612 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 He’s the right guy for brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, kevin612 said: He’s the right guy for brexit. who ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 56 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said: Boris will spend tomorrow organising for the DUP to be paid off in return for their support. £Billions more going into Northern Ireland. Gold plated taps for every Prod - but they are facing enormous pressure from their working class vote for No Surrender - sound familiar they want to be more British than the British. Plus Sinn Fein support it. Try explaining that. Farage on LBC now calling it absolutely awful and absolutely not Brexit. Interesting also said Juncker is a drunken old fart who speaks for no one and he says the EU instinct is to have one last go at getting Remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiekerjozef Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, oldhippy said: who ? Benny Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, spiekerjozef said: Benny Hill I agree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpc5_3B5xdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 52 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said: Gold plated taps for every Prod - but they are facing enormous pressure from their working class vote for No Surrender - sound familiar they want to be more British than the British. Plus Sinn Fein support it. Try explaining that. Farage on LBC now calling it absolutely awful and absolutely not Brexit. Interesting also said Juncker is a drunken old fart who speaks for no one and he says the EU instinct is to have one last go at getting Remain. Lets look at this without the fanfare Junker is currently stating there will be no extension if this deal dosnt pass, Gove in parliament today stated the same thing, we would leave if it dosnt go through. As are others, Farage was always going to meltdown unless its a no deal. Its not likely there is going to be another extension. There are many ways to get around the Benn bill and Barmier has also said there would be no extension this time, They know Boris can get around the Benn deal. Macron is also making no more extension noises. I would agree they can change on a whim as usual but the noises are all its this or no deal on 31 the Uk is leaving. As ive said before I believe the price of a deal is N Ireland. Do you have a problem with the unification of Ireland ? The choice atm is very much the May/Boris Deal that will be presented Saturday or No Deal. Given how polarised Parliament has been and continues to be its highly possible that will create the default position of No Deal. Looks to me exactly the same as in March this deal or leave with no deal... Only Oct 31 is more a line in the sand than March was Saturday Chaos will ensue, Article 50 is not going to be revoked, i will guarantee you that, there isnt anywhere near the support for it. Politicians dont have the guts, would be thrown out enmasse of their jobs even more than in a GE now and they know it. if the opposition try and force another referendum, or the deal gets voted down ( i think it will ) the £ will fall so get whatever exchange in now while its at 39 ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, englishoak said: Lets look at this without the fanfare Junker is currently stating there will be no extension if this deal dosnt pass, Gove in parliament today stated the same thing, we would leave if it dosnt go through. As are others, Farage was always going to meltdown unless its a no deal. Its not likely there is going to be another extension. There are many ways to get around the Benn bill and Barmier has also said there would be no extension this time, They know Boris can get around the Benn deal. Macron is also making no more extension noises. I would agree they can change on a whim as usual but the noises are all its this or no deal on 31 the Uk is leaving. As ive said before I believe the price of a deal is N Ireland. Do you have a problem with the unification of Ireland ? The choice atm is very much the May/Boris Deal that will be presented Saturday or No Deal. Given how polarised Parliament has been and continues to be its highly possible that will create the default position of No Deal. Looks to me exactly the same as in March this deal or leave with no deal... Only Oct 31 is more a line in the sand than March was Saturday Chaos will ensue, Article 50 is not going to be revoked, i will guarantee you that, there isnt anywhere near the support for it. Politicians dont have the guts, would be thrown out enmasse of their jobs even more than in a GE now and they know it. if the opposition try and force another referendum, or the deal gets voted down ( i think it will ) the £ will fall so get whatever exchange in now while its at 39 ???? QUOTE: As ive said before I believe the price of a deal is N Ireland. Do you have a problem with the unification of Ireland ? And how do YOU feel about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, oldhippy said: QUOTE: As ive said before I believe the price of a deal is N Ireland. Do you have a problem with the unification of Ireland ? And how do YOU feel about that? Im not in the slightest bit a unionist so im very fine with that, I have always believed in unification of Ireland and it was never going be any other way ... the religious and the wars of the church is no longer a factor and its time.. do YOU have a problem with Ireland being one nation again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, englishoak said: Im not in the slightest bit a unionist so im very fine with that, I have always believed in unification of Ireland and it was never going be any other way ... the religious and the wars of the church is no longer a factor and its time.. do YOU have a problem with Ireland being one nation again ? Of course not. The British should have pulled out of the occupied territories long time ago. But I had the impression that for most brexiteers this was not acceptable. Even May (and she was a remainer) wanted to preserve the "integrity" of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, spiekerjozef said: Benny Hill actually Benny Hill would make a good metaphor for Brexit - chasing something without knowing what it is, for all the wrong reasons and no idea what to do with it if we get it. Just about as well organized too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, oldhippy said: QUOTE: As ive said before I believe the price of a deal is N Ireland. Do you have a problem with the unification of Ireland ? And how do YOU feel about that? and if we let NI go, why not Scotland ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, tebee said: and if we let NI go, why not Scotland ? Should also let England go as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, sanemax said: Should also let England go as well . that seems fair Scotland and NI stay in the EU and England leave both the EU and the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, tebee said: and if we let NI go, why not Scotland ? 1 hour ago, tebee said: and if we let NI go, why not Scotland ? And the isle of dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, HauptmannUK said: Boris will spend tomorrow organising for the DUP to be paid off in return for their support. £Billions more going into Northern Ireland. Boris, actually believes he can get his deal through without the DUP. Though the maths does not add up, with 650 MP's he would need 325 in theory to get the deal approved, the Tories had 317 mp's after the last general election but now have 288 MP's 37 short of 325, so where is he going to get 37 other MP's to vote with him? at the same time ensuring every one of his own MP's votes for his deal. Ok maybe not 325 as the 7 Sinn Fain MP's do not attend Parliament, but he is going to need a lot more MP's than he has at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Basil B said: Boris, actually believes he can get his deal through without the DUP. Though the maths does not add up, with 650 MP's he would need 325 in theory to get the deal approved, the Tories had 317 mp's after the last general election but now have 288 MP's 37 short of 325, so where is he going to get 37 other MP's to vote with him? at the same time ensuring every one of his own MP's votes for his deal. Ok maybe not 325 as the 7 Sinn Fain MP's do not attend Parliament, but he is going to need a lot more MP's than he has at this time. People's Vote This deal vs Remain - then let this nonsense end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 10 hours ago, samran said: Details to follow at a later point. No doubt it will be more limp wristed the May’s deal, which he viciously opposes. But hey, he’s PM now so that doesn’t really matter now. Just be listening to lbc the scheme,sorry deal is just as bad as mays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdong Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said: People's Vote This deal vs Remain - then let this nonsense end. Why not leave with this deal or leave with no deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Good Boris and the Tories will win a landslide and then the working class that supported the outcome will see the true nature of an unleashed Eton Tory. Oh and Britain's broke so that EU money that was spunked up your region will be quitely forgotten. And thye sh*thole towns where you cried for help will get shattier. As will our NHS. Great result well done. Let's all wave our chinese made flags and cheer the Great Liar in Chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, kingdong said: Why not leave with this deal or leave with no deal? Because https://www.ft.com/content/a513c33c-f02a-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195 Yes, this deal is far better than no deal. But it is a terrible deal and also one that is far indeed from the “having our cake and eating it” promised by Mr Johnson in the referendum campaign. It is, simply, a monstrous act of national self harm. It is not good enough to let an exhausted parliament wave it through. Despite all the obvious risks, the people should be asked whether this deal is what they truly want for their future and that of their children and children’s children. The right thing to do is to put it to the people. They now know what choices lie in front of them and their country. If they choose this one knowingly, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said: People's Vote This deal vs Remain - then let this nonsense end. As much as I agree with you, The EU have said today if we do not accept this deal there will be no more extensions... But the LibDems have tabled a motion to be added to the Queens speech requesting any deal brought back from Brussels be put to a second referendum so I would say the EU would not refuse if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, kingdong said: Why not leave with this deal or leave with no deal? everything must change so that everything can r e m a i n the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, kingdong said: Just be listening to lbc the scheme,sorry deal is just as bad as mays Correct but at least Farage is out of a job so maybe that's one good result. No wonder he sounded p()sed on LBC tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulthailand99 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Gove been on the sherry (or coke) or both pretty early .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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