Brexit will happen on Oct. 31 despite PM's unsigned delay request, UK says

[webfact]

Brexit will happen on Oct. 31 despite PM's unsigned delay request, UK says

By Kylie MacLellan and Paul Sandle

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson leaves Downing Street to head for the House of Commons as parliament discusses Brexit, sitting on a Saturday for the first time since the 1982 Falklands War, in London, Britain, October 19, 2019. REUTERS/Simon Dawson

 

LONDON (Reuters) - The British government insisted on Sunday the country will leave the European Union on Oct. 31 despite a letter that Prime Minister Boris Johnson was forced by parliament to send to the bloc requesting a Brexit delay.

 

The Brexit maelstrom has spun wildly in the past week between the possibility of an orderly exit on Oct. 31 with a deal that Johnson struck on Thursday and a delay after he was forced to ask for an extension late on Saturday.

 

Johnson's defeat in the British parliament over the sequencing of the ratification of his deal exposed the prime minister to a law passed by those opposed to a no deal departure, demanding he request a delay until Jan. 31.

 

Johnson sent the request note as required, but unsigned, and added another signed letter arguing against what he cast as a deeply corrosive delay. One of his most senior ministers said Britain would still leave the bloc on Oct. 31.

 

"We are going to leave by October 31. We have the means and the ability to do so," Michael Gove, the minister in charge of no-deal Brexit preparations, told Sky News.

 

Brexit will happen by October 31, British government minister Michael Gove said on Sunday (October 20), despite lawmakers forcing Prime Minister Boris Johnson to send a letter on Saturday to the EU requesting a delay. Rough cut (no reporter narration).

 

"That letter was sent because parliament required it to be sent ... but parliament can't change the prime minister's mind, parliament can't change the government's policy or determination."

 

In yet another twist to the running Brexit drama, Johnson sent three letters to Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council.

 

First, a brief cover note from Britain's EU envoy explaining that the government was simply complying with the law; second, an unsigned copy of the text that the law, known as the Benn Act, forced him to write; and a third letter in which Johnson said he did not want an extension.

 

"I have made clear since becoming Prime Minister and made clear to parliament again today, my view, and the Government's position, that a further extension would damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners, and the relationship between us," Johnson said in the third letter, signed "Boris Johnson".

 

The EU, which has grappled with the tortuous Brexit crisis since Britons voted 52%-48% to leave in a 2016 referendum, was clearly bewildered by the contradictory signals from London.

 

Tusk said he had received the request from Johnson and would start consulting EU leaders on how to react.

 

French President Emmanuel Macron told Johnson that Paris needed swift clarification on the situation after Saturday's vote, an official at the French presidency told Reuters.

 

"He (Macron) signalled a delay would be in no one's interest," the official said.

 

It was unlikely that the EU's 27 remaining member states would refuse Britain's request, given the impact on all parties of a no-deal Brexit. Diplomats said on Sunday the bloc would play for time rather than rush to decide, waiting to see how things developed in London.

 

Gove said the risk of no deal had increased and the government would step up preparations for it, including triggering its "Operation Yellowhammer" contingency plans.

 

"We cannot guarantee that the European Council will grant an extension," he said, adding that he would chair a meeting on Sunday "to ensure that the next stage of our exit preparations, our preparedness for a no deal, is accelerated".

 

BREXIT LAW

Johnson won the top job by staking his career on getting Brexit done by Oct. 31 after his predecessor, Theresa May, was forced to delay the departure date twice. Parliament rejected her deal three times, by margins of between 58 and 230 votes.

 

He had hoped to pass his own newly struck deal at an extraordinary sitting of parliament on Saturday but that was derailed by a legislative booby trap set by a rebel lawmaker concerned that Britain might still drop out without a deal.

 

Lawmakers voted 322 to 306 in favour of an amendment that called for the legislation around the withdrawal deal to be approved first. This turned Johnson's planned finale on its head by obliging him to ask the EU for a delay, and increasing the opportunity for opponents to frustrate Brexit.

 

In his own signed letter to Tusk, Johnson said he was confident that the process of getting the legislation through Britain's parliament would be completed before Oct. 31.

 

Former minister Amber Rudd said she and most of the 21 Conservatives kicked out of the ruling party over their bid to block a no-deal Brexit would support the deal and there was "a fragile but sincere coalition of people who want to support it".

 

Oliver Letwin, the lawmaker behind Saturday's amendment, said on Sunday that he believed Johnson could probably get his Brexit deal over the line.

"I am absolutely behind the government now as long as they continue with this bill, continue with the deal. I will support it, I will vote for it," Letwin told BBC television.

 

'CHILDLIKE'

But the opposition Labour Party accused Johnson of acting as if he was above the law, and said the prime minister could end up in court.

 

Labour's Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer said the party would put forward amendments to Johnson's Brexit legislation, particularly aimed at closing the "trap door" to a no-deal Brexit kicking in at the end of a transition period in December 2020.

 

"He is being childlike. The law is very clear he should have signed one letter ... If we crash out, because of what he has done with the letters, in 11 days' time without a deal he bears personal responsibility for that," Starmer told BBC television.

 

Asked whether it would end up in court, Starmer said: "I am sure there will be court proceedings."

 

Scotland's highest court is due to consider on Monday a legal challenge that had sought to force Johnson to comply with the Benn Act. Under that law, Johnson was obliged to write to the EU seeking a delay if parliament had not approved either a withdrawal deal or a no-deal exit by Oct. 19.

 

The court said earlier this month that government lawyers had given formal legal statements that he would abide by the law and that it would be a serious matter if he did not.

 

Starmer also said an election was inevitable.

 

(Writing by Michael Holden and Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Dale Hudson and Frances Kerry)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-21

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[nobodysfriend]

I think that everybody is tired about this  'Brexit Drama' by now . Get out by the 31st . Democracy is not working anymore when parliament opposes the PM .

 

The only really ' fair ' solution would have been a second referendum . By now the voters are better informed about the consequences of a Brexit and many might have changed their minds in the meantime .

 

 

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I think that everybody is tired about this  'Brexit Drama' by now . Get out by the 31st . Democracy is not working anymore when parliament opposes the PM .

 

The only really ' fair ' solution would have been a second referendum . By now the voters are better informed about the consequences of a Brexit and many might have changed their minds in the meantime .

 

 

In principle I agree with your post, certainly about the 2nd referendum but it would be a mistake to allow street opinion rule. Democracy sits in parliament not in the pages of the Daily express or the local pub.

[JonnyF]

More posturing from the EU. Of course they will approve an extension, their scheming bureaucrats working with the traitorous UK MP's was always aimed at preventing us leaving. They will extend and request we vote again, because they didn't like the answer they got last time. Democracy, EU style.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

More posturing from the EU. Of course they will approve an extension, their scheming bureaucrats working with the traitorous UK MP's was always aimed at preventing us leaving. They will extend and request we vote again, because they didn't like the answer they got last time. Democracy, EU style.
 

Of course they will. A crash-out with no deal is not in anyone's interest except rabid Brexiteers.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Chomper Higgot]

If you are already Fede up with Brexit you should understand this:

 

The current gridlock is over the departure deal. 

 

If that is agreed by October 31st (Big If) then Brexit negotiations will continue for a decade or more.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Hey Brits, it's time to go out now, the door is wide open and it's not raining anymore.

The people are ready, the government is ready.

 

Unfortunately we have a few hundred MP's in Parliament who wish to Remain at all costs and will continue to block Brexit by colluding with the EU to block a clean break from the EU.

[MRToMRT]

32 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If that is agreed by October 31st (Big If) then Brexit negotiations will continue for a decade or more.

I thought this had been debunked as a labour narrative? Do you have a source, I am interested in getting to the bottom of this one as on Sophie Ridge she said it could be wrapped in 2020 in a push back against Kieran Starmer?

 

_________________

 

Correction, it was Nigel Farage

 

"NIGEL FARAGE: Well on the 1st November if we were to leave and we wake up and we’re still in the single market and we’re still inside the customs union and we’re still paying money to the EU and we’re still …

SR: Only because of the transition.

NIGEL FARAGE: Right and the transition, okay, lasts up until the end of 2022. It’s a very, very long way away.

SR: The end of 2020 isn’t it, Mr Farage?"

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

I think that everybody is tired about this  'Brexit Drama' by now . Get out by the 31st . Democracy is not working anymore when parliament opposes the PM .

 

The only really ' fair ' solution would have been a second referendum . By now the voters are better informed about the consequences of a Brexit and many might have changed their minds in the meantime .

 

 

 

You really need to read some more about democracy, checks and balances, and dictatorships.

 

Democracy is working perfectly when an elected sovereign body, i.e. parliament, and the law courts, hold the PM accountable and ensure he/she acts lawfully, legally and does not act above the law.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

27 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I thought this had been debunked as a labour narrative? Do you have a source, I am interested in getting to the bottom of this one as on Sophie Ridge she said it could be wrapped in 2020 in a push back against Kieran Starmer?

 

_________________

 

Correction, it was Nigel Farage

 

"NIGEL FARAGE: Well on the 1st November if we were to leave and we wake up and we’re still in the single market and we’re still inside the customs union and we’re still paying money to the EU and we’re still …

SR: Only because of the transition.

NIGEL FARAGE: Right and the transition, okay, lasts up until the end of 2022. It’s a very, very long way away.

SR: The end of 2020 isn’t it, Mr Farage?"

 

Good old Nigel - makes it up as he goes along; ignore facts and reality; changes his tune to whatever he thinks people want to hear - and laughing all the way to the Bank!

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The people are ready, the government is ready.

 

Unfortunately we have a few hundred MP's in Parliament who wish to Remain at all costs and will continue to block Brexit by colluding with the EU to block a clean break from the EU.

 

A majority of MPs in Parliament and half the "people" trumps a minority of MPs in Parliament and half the "people".

 

The EU recognises that, anyone with a fraction of understanding of "realpolitik" recognises that.

 

Suck it up.

 

PS A little bit of realpolitik for you:

 

Ever since day one of this nonsense a simple political rule has applied in the minds of the "combatants".

 

That simple political rule is that anything between 45% and 55% may be considered to be, for all intents and purposes......50%.

 

In such a case (and in this case) the "people" are considered (by the combatants) to be mere spectators.

 

 

 

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

 

"We are going to leave by October 31. We have the means and the ability to do so," Michael Gove, the minister in charge of no-deal Brexit preparations, told Sky News.

Partner in crime with Boris, Lied about £350mil for NHS and he knows the there is no chance of us leaving by Oct 31st.

[MarineEquine]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

In principle I agree with your post, certainly about the 2nd referendum but it would be a mistake to allow street opinion rule. Democracy sits in parliament not in the pages of the Daily express or the local pub.

Democracy certainly does not sit in the unelected, unaccountable, soviet style politburo in the shape of the European Commission. 

[jvs]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

By now the voters are better informed about the consequences of a Brexit and many might have changed their minds in the meantime .

I agree but that goes for both sides!!!!

[Bruntoid]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The people are ready, the government is ready.

 

Unfortunately we have a few hundred MP's in Parliament who wish to Remain at all costs and will continue to block Brexit by colluding with the EU to block a clean break from the EU.

Does ‘the people’ include the 16 million (back in 2016 but likely to be significantly more now if you believe the vast majority of polls) that didn’t vote for Brexit ? Or do only Brexiteers matter ? If so you may need to tell Bojo who promised to ‘bring the people together’ Done well there hasn’t he. Utter clown.
 

You need to stop speaking on behalf of everyone when even to a fool it’s blatantly obvious you don’t have their support 

 

Talking of fools only a brexiteer could believe a no deal would be anything but ‘clean’ 

[Bruntoid]

8 minutes ago, jvs said:

I agree but that goes for both sides!!!!

And how many remainers now aware of the carnage would be switching to leave ? 

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

I thought this had been debunked as a labour narrative? Do you have a source, I am interested in getting to the bottom of this one as on Sophie Ridge she said it could be wrapped in 2020 in a push back against Kieran Starmer?

 

_________________

 

Correction, it was Nigel Farage

 

"NIGEL FARAGE: Well on the 1st November if we were to leave and we wake up and we’re still in the single market and we’re still inside the customs union and we’re still paying money to the EU and we’re still …

SR: Only because of the transition.

NIGEL FARAGE: Right and the transition, okay, lasts up until the end of 2022. It’s a very, very long way away.

SR: The end of 2020 isn’t it, Mr Farage?"

I share the view that any trade arrangements won't take any longer than the 3.5 years wasted to date & note once again that 'losers consent' (lack of) has surfaced in yet another thread.

Here's what a silver medal looks like:

[el torro]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

In principle I agree with your post, certainly about the 2nd referendum but it would be a mistake to allow street opinion rule. Democracy sits in parliament not in the pages of the Daily express or the local pub.

I disagree.

 

Democracy is about elected politicians representing those who elected them.

 

When they are allowed to get away with making it blatantly clear that they consider themselves far more important than the electorate, then we are all in trouble.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Does ‘the people’ include the 16 million (back in 2016 but likely to be significantly more now if you believe the vast majority of polls) that didn’t vote for Brexit ? Or do only Brexiteers matter ? If so you may need to tell Bojo who promised to ‘bring the people together’ Done well there hasn’t he. Utter clown.
 

You need to stop speaking on behalf of everyone when even to a fool it’s blatantly obvious you don’t have their support 

 

Talking of fools only a brexiteer could believe a no deal would be anything but ‘clean’ 

In referendums, the side with the most votes wins. So no it does not include the 16 Million as they were the minority and lost and must accept they lost.

 

Same as a GE, if the Tories get enough MP's to form a majority government that's what happens. Just because Labour may have got "almost enough' does not mean they get a few MP's in the cabinet and the Tories compromise and adopt some of their socialist policies as that would be ludicrous. People who voted Labour would have to accept they lost, even if it was a narrow loss. They couldn't demand a second GE because Tory voters were stupid, didn't understand what they voted for, had died since the vote or any other pathetically weak reason they dream up.

 

The referendum was a binary choice with one winner. If Remain had won by over a million votes, we wouldn't have compromised and left the EU a little bit, it would have been full steam ahead with a federal Europe. The discussion would have been over. Unfortunately for the UK a lot of Remainers do not understand losers consent, hence all the problems from 2016 until the current debacle that has become a national embarrassment.

[el torro]

35 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

 

The mess of BS BJ, not able even to send a single letter.
This gentleman is a disgrace to UK and shall be stopped ASAP.

The real true of the disgraced mess of BS BJ is this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-no-deal-fruit-picking-apples-national-farmers-union-eu-workers-harvest-a9163781.html

Thank you for that silly article from (unsuprisingly) - the 'Independent' newspaper.

 

What on earth went wrong?  I used to read the Independent, and found it mostly boring, but occasionally interesting.  The Guardian was my 'paper of choice' until the saga of brexit.

 

Nowadays, they're as biased as the obvious tabloids .

[TopDeadSenter]

26 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Unfortunately for the UK a lot of Remainers do not understand losers consent,

True. This is what the whole extended mess has been due to. Losers not accepting they lost. And the only time they will learn this was wrong, will be when the left finally win an election only for the rest of the country to not consent to losing. We will say, "they were too dumb to know what they were voting for", or "they didn't understand the issues we need a 2nd vote". There is only one side of the political divide that does not consent to losing, funnily enough across the pond in the states they are having exactly the same problem.

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

And the only time they will learn this was wrong, will be when the left finally win an election only for the rest of the country to not consent to losing. We will say, "they were too dumb to know what they were voting for", or "they didn't understand the issues we need a 2nd vote".

And based on what law should that happen? Please tell us, otherwise I consider it just another confused idea from the lala land Brexiteers are living in. 
 

 

 

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

More posturing from the EU. Of course they will approve an extension, their scheming bureaucrats working with the traitorous UK MP's was always aimed at preventing us leaving. They will extend and request we vote again, because they didn't like the answer they got last time. Democracy, EU style.

 

Of course the EU want this deal to go through, Johnson has conceded in many aspects and it is certainly a good deal for them.  The people who should by angry and trying to stop the deal would be the ERG and all the hard line Brexiteers, but somehow they think the deal is acceptable.  Amazing how easily they have folded.

 

 

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, MarineEquine said:

Democracy certainly does not sit in the unelected, unaccountable, soviet style politburo in the shape of the European Commission. 

As long as this kind of comments exist, showing there is ZERO konwledge about the EU, how it fucntions, how organised, there is in my view no place for the British inside the EU.

Unelected… how many members of the Houde of Lords are elected ? How maany civil servants, the governour of the Bank of England, the UK representative in FIFA, Olympic Committe, etc etc etc ?

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, el torro said:

Thank you for that silly article from (unsuprisingly) - the 'Independent' newspaper.

 

What on earth went wrong?  I used to read the Independent, and found it mostly boring, but occasionally interesting.  The Guardian was my 'paper of choice' until the saga of brexit.

 

Nowadays, they're as biased as the obvious tabloids .

You are right all the newspapers are biased, they always have been when it comes to political opinions.  Then again why do we buy the newspapers we do?  For their fair and balanced reporting or for them reflecting our view and biases?  No brainer really.  It's nearly always spin, one way or another.

 

Inevitably our opinions are influenced by the media as we choose who to believe.  Then those opinions become hard and fast facts in our heads.  Of course this is true! I read it in The...…….. 

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, el torro said:

I disagree.

 

Democracy is about elected politicians representing those who elected them.

 

When they are allowed to get away with making it blatantly clear that they consider themselves far more important than the electorate, then we are all in trouble.

The British electorate chose for 48,11% for ONE alternative: remain. The other 51,88% voted for A KIND OF Brexit. When yiou see the results in the House of Commons, you see the same: never ONLE option of a Brexit got the majority.

So, maybe.. those who want to stay in the EU in their own state ( Gaelic Federation, like Belgium), the leavers in their other state ( Single Kingdom ?)?

[el torro]

23 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Of course the EU want this deal to go through, Johnson has conceded in many aspects and it is certainly a good deal for them.  The people who should by angry and trying to stop the deal would be the ERG and all the hard line Brexiteers, but somehow they think the deal is acceptable.  Amazing how easily they have folded.

 

 

I suspect it's because we are all sick and tired of the whole fiasco.

 

The Boris 'deal' is far from ideal, but at least it doesn't tie the UK into the EU for eternity - as per the EU/May deal.

[el torro]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And based on what law should that happen? Please tell us, otherwise I consider it just another confused idea from the lala land Brexiteers are living in. 
 

 

 

And that is where you are making a serious mistake.

 

You are convinced that brexiteers are living in "lala land" - instead of having even the slightest understanding of the 'opposition' view point.

[el torro]

35 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Of course the EU want this deal to go through, Johnson has conceded in many aspects and it is certainly a good deal for them.  The people who should by angry and trying to stop the deal would be the ERG and all the hard line Brexiteers, but somehow they think the deal is acceptable.  Amazing how easily they have folded.

 

 

It's not that suprising - we're all sick and tired of the fiasco, and (as far as I can make out) the Boris deal means leave at the end of 2020?

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, el torro said:

It's not that suprising - we're all sick and tired of the fiasco, and (as far as I can make out) the Boris deal means leave at the end of 2020?

Boris's deal is just about the leaving bit.  After that we have to negotiate trade deals and to get them that will involve commitments to abide by EU rules and regulations.  That is why this deal works so well for the EU.  The EU laws are being (many already done) cut and pasted into British law.  As for controlling our own borders, we are on a recruiting drive to bring people here from abroad to replace the EU citizens who are choosing to now leave.  The vast majority of those people work in the National Health Service.

 

So this withdrawal agreement is just round one of a very long and tedious process.  It will go on for years