Johnson faces perilous Brexit ratification after deal vote blocked

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers defending the integrity of Parliament? We are looking forwards to that happening any day soon.

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That requires members to have at least a little bit of this 'integrity'. Just maybe a possibility after a general election. This lot are shot.

[SheungWan]

Re the Agreement details which have now been published, if the projected amendments fall, then the substantive motion is projected by the FT to pass by ~ 5 votes.

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[SheungWan]

That requires members to have at least a little bit of this 'integrity'. Just maybe a possibility after a general election. This lot are shot.

More shouting from the sidelines. No 'shot'. The show goes on.

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[SheungWan]

The question is whether the Commons is inclined to pass any of the amendments which the Govt will not accept re the Agreement legislation.

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[stephenterry]

Is this brexit topic still continuing? Good grief, hasn't anybody but me have better things to do, like getting on with life.

 

And whatever happens, how's it going to affect you? Apart from seeing the pound rise and fall. The issue I see on here is that most leave posters have no respect for opposing POV. It's always my way is the only option. And if any mention democracy again, they need to look in the mirror.

 

And on a wider scenario, any brexit increases the rift between the rich and the poor. Why does the tory party want out? Because the EU are requiring the UK to up pensions in line with the other members - in other words it would cost the government, to do so.

 

So I'm firmly in Labour's camp, going forward. 

[dunroaming]

I think Boris will get enough votes to get his deal through today.  I may be wrong but we will see.

[SheungWan]

Is this brexit topic still continuing? Good grief, hasn't anybody but me have better things to do, like getting on with life.
 
And whatever happens, how's it going to affect you? Apart from seeing the pound rise and fall. The issue I see on here is that most leave posters have no respect for opposing POV. It's always my way is the only option. And if any mention democracy again, they need to look in the mirror.
 
And on a wider scenario, any brexit increases the rift between the rich and the poor. Why does the tory party want out? Because the EU are requiring the UK to up pensions in line with the other members - in other words it would cost the government, to do so.
 
So I'm firmly in Labour's camp, going forward. 

I've not got anything better to do.

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[SheungWan]

I think Boris will get enough votes to get his deal through today.  I may be wrong but we will see.

The vote is the Second Reading to approve procedure concerning allocation of time to the debate which would be followed by actual votes to approve or not.

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[dunroaming]

Started looking through the main points of Johnson's deal.  Not easy to make sense of (at least for me) with lot's of fudges and ambiguous statements.  EU law being cut and pasted into British law as we all knew and a new committee is being set up to protect EU citizens rights and keeping the EU's working time directive.  Clearly that is intended to placate and bring on board some Labour rebels.  Transition period will be in place and full commitment to pay all the money due to Brussels.  So far it seems to be heavily weighted towards the EU and certainly worse than May's deal.

 

You can see why Boris wanted to bounce this through before there was time for proper scrutiny.

[tebee]

14 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Started looking through the main points of Johnson's deal.  Not easy to make sense of (at least for me) with lot's of fudges and ambiguous statements.  EU law being cut and pasted into British law as we all knew and a new committee is being set up to protect EU citizens rights and keeping the EU's working time directive.  Clearly that is intended to placate and bring on board some Labour rebels.  Transition period will be in place and full commitment to pay all the money due to Brussels.  So far it seems to be heavily weighted towards the EU and certainly worse than May's deal.

 

You can see why Boris wanted to bounce this through before there was time for proper scrutiny.

You can clearly see we held all the cards in this negotiation.... 

[beautifulthailand99]

Well we won't see the DUP coming back anytime soon . They have gone peak Paisley and are rumoured to have had talks with the UVF /UDA before taking their opposition. Brexit the gift that keeps on taking. 

 

Loyalist Robert Girvan said he could not see loyalism "just walking into a situation where there is any type of economic union with the Irish Republic".

"I was talking to someone who said we'll see how hard the border is if bombs start going off in Limerick."

Loyalist blogger Jamie Bryson said: "If Northern Ireland is aligned in any way to the Republic, I think the flag protests of 2013 will look like a day at the beach.

"I would advocate peaceful protest and civil disobedience as no-one wants to see violence, but I think when you have mass numbers of people on the streets, violence will occur."

 

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/10/14/news/brexit-loyalists-plan-action-if-boris-johnson-shafts-northern-ireland-1737783/

 

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/10/22/news/loyalists-meet-in-unprecedented-show-of-unity-over-brexit-betrayal--1744947/

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

He is an excellent speaker for Remainers because he is completely biased towards Remain.

 

Of course you like him. If all you care about is Remaining at all costs and you don't give a toss about convention, the constitution, Democracy, bullying of subordinates and the integrity of the House of Commons then he's perfect ????.

Tell, why his argumentation NOT to have a second debate + voting in such a short time about the same object is wrong according British law !

[SheungWan]

The big joke is that both Remainers and Hard Brexiteers united against the Boris bill. No?

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[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

October 31 Brexit because EU not delay any more

Dec 2013 Cameron came with his referendum idea. 6 Years later, the British do not agree amoung themselves what now.

Time finally to listen to Charles de Gaulle, who already said the mentality of the British cannot meet continental European ideas. So.. throw them out 31 Oct. 23:00 h 

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, kingdong said:

To comply with the democratic vote in 2016

Which kind of "leave"? All who are against have to leave the UK ? Or.. same agreement as Norway ? or? Till now even in the HoC not one majority fo the choices could come out. And all Brexiteers panic when the suggestion comes to bring that choice to the UK public. Nobody askes, if the EU public is not so fed up with the British, they prefer to kick the British out as they are ONLY and ONLY interested in tonly THEIR advantage, nover for the whole EU. Probably as used to a medieval election system per barony ( constituency).

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Lots of leavers talk about that referendum and democracy.

But recently it seems very little is written about the advantages of Brexit.

Where are the advantages? Should a government follow through with anything after lots of facts come out and show that the original decision was flawed and bad for the country?

 

Just doing something now because 52% thought 3 years ago they like that idea does not make sense! 

Now people know a lot more details. Let them decide if they want to stay in the EU or if they like Boris Great Deal.

If his deal is so wonderful then you should have no doubt that the majority will support it.

The brexiteers panic with the idea, a art 50 revoke mightr be the result. Even when they have to let Ulster dowm, push the Scots out, and a huge fall in national gross domestic product, they will accept all this.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Are you suggesting it is OK to for unelected judges to overturn the political decisions of a democratically elected Government?

It is correct then, the members of the House of Lords, of which NONE is ever elected, have any say at all ? ?

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

Maybe it's not a bias but have they concluded that Brexit is a big mistake and has no benefits?

Has the UK already better trade deals? So far it looks bad.

With whom the small UK should make better deals then the much larger EU ?

[transam]

21 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Which kind of "leave"? All who are against have to leave the UK ? Or.. same agreement as Norway ? or? Till now even in the HoC not one majority fo the choices could come out. And all Brexiteers panic when the suggestion comes to bring that choice to the UK public. Nobody askes, if the EU public is not so fed up with the British, they prefer to kick the British out as they are ONLY and ONLY interested in tonly THEIR advantage, nover for the whole EU. Probably as used to a medieval election system per barony ( constituency).

You, a non Brit, are now speaking for all EU foreigners it seems...Hmmmm, we will soon be away from all that stuff.....Then, you can have a go at the next country that is pi__ed off with that kind of stuff.....????

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

We haven't left the EU yet. We can't sign trade deals until we have left. Not many countries are going to invest time and effort agreeing trade deals with us while Remainers are still trying to overturn the Democratic vote.

 

I'd be more worried about the EU if I was you. How's the EU's trade deals with China and the US coming along? Which country are you going to replace the UK with? There are 5 on the waiting list...

 

Turkey

Macedonia

Montenegro

Serbia

Albania

Why the EU should need any replacement for the UK ? ( if Scotland and Ulster already donot stay in the.. Gaelic (con)federation, just as Belgium already is ?)

The import duty acc. WTO-rules of UK goods imported into the EU brings much more EU-revenues than the present UK-contribution. And when some - mostly Industrial products - imports are replaced by EU production itsself.. a double-win situation for the EU. EU exports to UK are for an interesting part fresh fruits and vegs. Good luck with replacements from Canada, South Africa or New Zealand.

[tebee]

46 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

The brexiteers panic with the idea, a art 50 revoke mightr be the result. Even when they have to let Ulster dowm, push the Scots out, and a huge fall in national gross domestic product, they will accept all this.

So much of Brexit is saving face - and we criticize the Thais for being worried about this !

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

More shouting from the sidelines. No 'shot'. The show goes on.

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A real shot show. 

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It was a Binary choice, Remain or Leave. Leave won and the result of the vote must be implemented.

 

In terms of process, sure we can have another one in a couple of decades after this one has been implemented. That's how Democracy works. It doesn't work by insulting the other side and demanding another vote before you even implemented the result of the first one because you don't like the result.

 

That's a desperate, illogical and frankly uncivilized stance to take. You're better than that. 

a) So, a LEAVE "whatever the outcome is ? Like: everyone, who is against, is expelled from the UK ? Seen YOUR idea of democracy, any later filling in of the rules is allowed.

b) In a democracy the majority also takes review in the interests of the minority. And a.. 48,11%.. is not a small minority. 51,88 % voted for A VARIETY of leave. See the voting in the HoC which variety got the majority. No,. no. no. no. no.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Unless it’s no-deal or hard Brexit they might as well just stay in the EU

Yes, and with every EU-vote, where the UK just make the beginning of a comment, the others will say: "you want to brexit again ? "

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

No-deal Brexit didn't win.

So, it is to the elected Hoc + appointed HoL = UK Parliament to decide, WHICH KIND of "Leave". Till now, not one of the options got a majority. 

Time somebody else makes the decission… 31 Oct, 23:00 h

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And then Parliament was reopened to comply with the law.

The Gina Miller act?

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Dec 2013 Cameron came with his referendum idea. 6 Years later, the British do not agree amoung themselves what now.

Time finally to listen to Charles de Gaulle, who already said the mentality of the British cannot meet continental European ideas. So.. throw them out 31 Oct. 23:00 h 

Totally agree with your last comment,a gem in a grubby setting.

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I've not got anything better to do.

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That's obvious

[Rimmer]

Some troll posts and replies removed

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

We haven't left the EU yet. We can't sign trade deals until we have left. Not many countries are going to invest time and effort agreeing trade deals with us while Remainers are still trying to overturn the Democratic vote.

 

I'd be more worried about the EU if I was you. How's the EU's trade deals with China and the US coming along? Which country are you going to replace the UK with? There are 5 on the waiting list...

 

Turkey

Macedonia

Montenegro

Serbia

Albania

 

Good Luck with them ????

I,m sure the above mentioned economic and democratic power houses will be a great asset to the European union and will be more than willing to make up for the uks financial contribution.