Popular Post AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 22, 2019 I have been advised the same thing by both Thailand Embassy and the one Consulate who also processes O-A Visa applications. There are several other Consulates here, but they do not do O-A Visa applications. The Embassy/Consulate advised that when someone applies for a new O-A Visa in Australia, that they been given the authority to approve whatever Australian health insurance that the applicant has, that meets the minimum requirement. They assured me that this will be allowed by the IO at Swampy airport when that person arrives. I have contacted several health and travel insurance companies (verbally) and none of them in Australia will sign the required Thailand Certificate of Insurance document. As expected they cannot and will not sign a legal document stating that they comply with the Immigration Laws or Rules in Thailand. They will provide a certificate of insurance detailing what is covered - but that is all. Am I going to say that this is definiterly true? No!! This is what the rules are as interpreted by the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Australia. But will this also be interpreted by the IOs at Swampy the same way? Maybe is the best answer right now. Until people start arriving at Swampy after 31st October with new O-A Visas with the 'approved back home' insurance obtained in their home country, and the IOs either accept or reject them, will I know for sure. This is a big issue for a friend of mine that has for several years been living in Thailand with his Thai wife for 9 months of the year and then living with her in Australia for 3 months of the year. They are coming back to Australia soon and he needs a new O-A Visa on this trip. The reason it is a big issue is that he is over 80 years old and he cannot get the insurance needed in Thailand. He has the money in Aust bank to cover any illness or injury, but that is apparently not good enough. And because he only takes out the money from Aust when he needs it, he has not complied with the 65K per month, or the min 400K in bank for a year for an Extension. He will be a guinea pig to see if a locally approved insurance policy is allowed by the IOs at Swampy when he returns next year. This is a bigger issue for my Thai wife and I because that was our plan (9+3), once I qualify for the Aust Pension - I have to live in Aust for minimum of 2 years when I first apply otherwise I cannot keep it when I go overseas for more than 12-26 weeks (it changes - once they said 6 weeks). My wife thinks that the Junta does not care about 'real' Thais, who are the ones who benefit from being able to marry a 'Falang'. She reckons all the recent Immigration changes are because they are following the China directives about 'western foreigners' (too much trouble - force them out). She really thinks that once the Junta are voted out at the next elections, that things will then go back to normal. But after seeing how strong China's influence really is lately (eg. NBA and Cathy Pacific CEO), and how they are dealing with the dissent in Hong Kong and Taiwan, it is my opinion that things will never be allowed to go back to 'the good old days' in Thailand. In fact I think it will only get worse - and unlike 'Jeffrey346' who has a Thai wife who worked in Government for years, the vast majority of Expats seeking renewals/permissions are going to suffer more and more : https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1129621-savannakhet-making-the-rules-up-as-they-go/ 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: This is a big issue for a friend of mine that has for several years been living in Thailand with his Thai wife for 9 months of the year and then living with her in Australia for 3 months of the year. Not sure why he has been getting OA visa since he married to thai. He can get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage to a Thai. Or get a single entry non-o visa based upon marriage and then apply for a one year extension of stay based upon marriage a immitration. He would need 400k baht in a Thai bank in his name only or proof of 40k baht income. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Get a non o married to thai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: In fact I think it will only get worse - and unlike 'Jeffrey346' who has a Thai wife who worked in Government for years, the vast majority of Expats seeking renewals/permissions are going to suffer more and more : https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1129621-savannakhet-making-the-rules-up-as-they-go/ Ignore most of what is in that topic. Read his OP and you will see it mostly incorrect info. You can get a multiple entry non-o visa at the embassy in Canberra or the consulate in Sydney. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 What if anything is the Embassy saying regarding second entries on the OA visa? First entry will presumably have a notation from them attesting that insurance requirements were met and giving policy dates, , but what about second entry? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: Not sure why he has been getting OA visa since he married to thai. He can get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage to a Thai. Or get a single entry non-o visa based upon marriage and then apply for a one year extension of stay based upon marriage a immitration. He would need 400k baht in a Thai bank in his name only or proof of 40k baht income. The only Visa now available (from overseas) that allows stay up to 12 months is an O-A Visa. I had that confirmed by both the Embassy and the Consulate. A single entry 'Marriage' Visa allows only 3 months stay. A multiple entry 'Marriage' Visa allows only 3 months stay - then he has to leave country and re-enter. Like I said he cannot extend using O-A Visa a this time - this was confirmed when they visited Khon Kaen Immigration - and they advised he cannot 'convert' and get 12 months on Marriage Extension either (also advised by Khon Kaen). Up until this new law was passed he had been operating on the assumption that when he comes back in December, he would get a new O-A Visa (this one for 2 years now) and return and repeat. Like him, I thought this insurance 'scam' was dropped months ago. When I stated to both Embassy and Consulate that he wants to only stay for 9 months and then 3 months in Australia, and that I want to do the same in the future, they both stated that this option is not 'covered' in the current Visa options and rules. There is nothing for someone unable to get the insurance or who is not working. They said the best solution is to get a multiple entry 'Marriage' Visa and leave/re-enter just before the 3 months. The Consulate was far more helpful - she advised what you said - and we are going to move forward with that plan, or the 3 monthly trip to Vientienne and back. The first step is they are going back to Khon Kaen (mid November after things settle) to ascertain exactly what he will need to do so that when he comes back with a 'Marriage' Visa next year he can get a 12 months extension of stay. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 80 yo could just use tourist visas and visa exempts if he is only here part of the year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Sheryl said: What if anything is the Embassy saying regarding second entries on the OA visa? First entry will presumably have a notation from them attesting that insurance requirements were met and giving policy dates, , but what about second entry? I tried not to say everything at once as the Post would be very long. The Coinsulate said (Embassy was not too helpful) that his second entry back into Thailand on his O-A Visa (the automatic one if he leaves within 12 months), will require that he has renewed the original insurance policy that was approved on his original application. But I got the feeling that they were not 100% sure about that - they advsied their understanding of the rules, but not so 'confidently'. I assume that is another on the 'wait and find out' list. With regards to any further 'Extension' of his permission to stay under the O-A Visa while in Thailand, they stated that he must discuss that with the local Immigration Office in Thailand. Their 'insurance approval' only applies to the original O-A Visa application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said: 80 yo could just use tourist visas and visa exempts if he is only here part of the year He has to leave and re-enter for that and he used to do that. But he is now 85 and so he changed to the O-A Visa (I helped him get it) so he only had to come and go once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupin Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: The only Visa now available (from overseas) that allows stay up to 12 months is an O-A Visa. I had that confirmed by both the Embassy and the Consulate. Although I understand that might be the case in the context of the question you asked them, that's not really accurate. There are other visas available (from overseas) that allow for stays of up to 12 months or more. The OX for example, or even the Elite visa.. which can be applied for from overseas and sticker affixed at swampy on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 As there will not be an Embassy/Consulate notation for the insurance renewal he needs to get this certificate completed by his insurer https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf IOs at airports are not going to read through foreign insurance documents and not likely to accept foreign insurance cards either. Need this form once beyond the dates of the original Embassy visa notation. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, lupin said: Although I understand that might be the case in the context of the question you asked them, that's not really accurate. There are other visas available (from overseas) that allow for stays of up to 12 months or more. The OX for example, or even the Elite visa.. which can be applied for from overseas and sticker affixed at swampy on arrival. Sorry - yes that is correct. And yes I meant in the context of an 85 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyp Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: I tried not to say everything at once as the Post would be very long. The Coinsulate said (Embassy was not too helpful) that his second entry back into Thailand on his O-A Visa (the automatic one if he leaves within 12 months), will require that he has renewed the original insurance policy that was approved on his original application. But I got the feeling that they were not 100% sure about that - they advsied their understanding of the rules, but not so 'confidently'. I assume that is another on the 'wait and find out' list. With regards to any further 'Extension' of his permission to stay under the O-A Visa while in Thailand, they stated that he must discuss that with the local Immigration Office in Thailand. Their 'insurance approval' only applies to the original O-A Visa application. To get an extension of stay he would have to buy Thai insurance which, as you say, he cannot get because he is too old. That is a long ways off so you just have to wait to see what transpires. He hasn't been sending money to a Thai bank to meet the marriage visa requirements but he could start to do so. Plan for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Sheryl said: As there will not be an Embassy/Consulate notation for the insurance renewal he needs to get this certificate completed by his insurer https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf IOs at airports are not going to read through foreign insurance documents and not likely to accept foreign insurance cards either. Need this form once beyond the dates of the original Embassy visa notation. . Yep. And as I said - not one insurance company I contacted would agree to sign any certificate stating that they complay with the laws and rules of another country. They will only provide their own certificate detailing the level of coverage. I was in business and the legal ramifications are huge. The cost alone to confirm compliance would be extremely high, and the risk involved would be too high. Maybe if 1000s policies involved? But no way for one. That is the main reason I am researching how he can change to a Marriage Visa for entry and then get Extension when he next stays in Thailand. Either that or a visit to and from Vientiene - which is a lot cheaper and requires no money in a Thai bank account wasting away - and which would likely 'disappear' when he passes away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: Like I said he cannot extend using O-A Visa a this time - this was confirmed when they visited Khon Kaen Immigration - and they advised he cannot 'convert' and get 12 months on Marriage Extension either (also advised by Khon Kaen). On what basis were they saying that. There apparently is another problem other than the fact he is on a OA visa. There is no conversion needed. It is just applying for a extension of stay based upon marriage with a entry from a non immigrant OA visa. Many people have done it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, ubonjoe said: On what basis were they saying that. There apparently is another problem other than the fact he is on a OA visa. There is no conversion needed. It is just applying for a extension of stay based upon marriage with a entry from a non immigrant OA visa. Many people have done it already. Joe - it would take many pages to tell the whole story. I was posting about anyone in Australia getting a 'long stay' Visa and the latest on the inusrance \scam for new O-A Visa holders. But as you have asked. He does not want to keep much money in a Thai bank account. He transfers money over as he needs it and then gives it to his wife. He has been doing that for many years. He is 85 and 'stubborn'. He cant use a computer and does not have a phone. He is on an O-A Visa entry and getting him to agree to change to an O 'Marriage' is what we are doing now. Then whether he goes to/from Vientiene every 3 months (meaning 2 times) - or he gets a 'marriage' Extension of Permission to Stay are his options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: Then whether he goes to/from Vientiene every 3 months (meaning 2 times) - or he gets a 'marriage' Extension of Permission to Stay are his options. Do you mean getting a new visa or just a crossing for a new 90 day entry from a multiple entry non-o visa. A entry from a multiple entry non-o visa would allow a 90 day entry that can be extended for 60 days to visit his wife. No need for a border run for about 5 months that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: Do you mean getting a new visa or just a crossing for a new 90 day entry from a multiple entry non-o visa. A entry from a multiple entry non-o visa would allow a 90 day entry that can be extended for 60 days to visit his wife. No need for a border run for about 5 months that way. Thanks Joe - I meant just a crossing for a new 90 day entry from a multiple entry non-o visa. They did not mention any 60 day entension was possible - I guess because that is an in-country arranagement - but I did not know that either. Please tell me more - anything that can mean he only has to do the Vientienne trip once is great. Please advise what he needs to take with him to get a 60 day extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just get a non imm O, arrive for 90 days, extend the permission of stay. No insurance needed, no real problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: Please advise what he needs to take with him to get a 60 day extension. His wife needs to be with him when he applies. Marriage certificate plus a copy, copy of wife's house book registry and ID card. Proof he is staying Khon Kaen. If same address as where his wife's house book is for nothing more would be need. A complete TM7 form with a 4 X 6 cm photo attached and 1900 baht for the fee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: His wife needs to be with him when he applies. Marriage certificate plus a copy, copy of wife's house book registry and ID card. Proof he is staying Khon Kaen. If same address as where his wife's house book is for nothing more would be need. A complete TM7 form with a 4 X 6 cm photo attached and 1900 baht for the fee. That is great news Joe - thank you very much mate. One last question if I may. Once he gets the 60 says and then leaves and re-enters to get another 90 days - can he get another 60 days extension in the same year? He stays there from March through to December - about 9 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, AussieBob18 said: One last question if I may. Once he gets the 60 says and then leaves and re-enters to get another 90 days - can he get another 60 days extension in the same year? He stays there from March through to December - about 9 months. The only restriction on getting the 60 day extension is that only one can be done per entry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: The only restriction on getting the 60 day extension is that only one can be done per entry. Thanks Joe. I will put all that together and we will talk with his wife and see what she thinks. Have a great day mate - you are the best ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tanoshi Posted October 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: They did not mention any 60 day entension was possible - I guess because that is an in-country arranagement - but I did not know that either. Please tell me more - anything that can mean he only has to do the Vientienne trip once is great. Your friend has two options based on the information you have supplied, excluding the O-A Visa which would require mandatory health cover. 1. He applies for the Non O multi entry Visa. Valid 1 year. (300 AUD) On entry he will be granted a 90 day stay. He extends this permission to stay for a further 60 days at his local IO. (1,900 BHT) 90 + 60 = 150 days. He does a border run to obtain another 90 day entry. (Cost of Lao Visa + Travel) He extends for another 60 days at his IO. (1,900 BHT) 90 + 60 = 150 days + 90 + 60 = 300 days. More than enough to cover a 9 month stay 2. He applies for the Non O single entry Visa. Valid 90 days. (120 AUD) On entry he will be granted a 90 day stay. He deposits 400K in a Thai bank in his name. When the 400K has been on deposit for 2 months he can apply for an annual extension of stay based on marriage at his local IO. (1,900 BHT) After the extension is granted he can withdraw the 400K and use for living expenses. No border runs, more convenient, cheaper. Edited October 22, 2019 by Tanoshi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will27 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 "This is a bigger issue for my Thai wife and I because that was our plan (9+3), once I qualify for the Aust Pension - I have to live in Aust for minimum of 2 years when I first apply otherwise I cannot keep it when I go overseas for more than 12-26 weeks (it changes - once they said 6 weeks)." I assume you currently live in Thailand? Because my understanding of the OAP, is that you only have to wait the 2 years for portability if you have been living overseas and return to Oz to apply. If you have been living in Australia, you get portability as soon as you get it granted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Will27 said: "This is a bigger issue for my Thai wife and I because that was our plan (9+3), once I qualify for the Aust Pension - I have to live in Aust for minimum of 2 years when I first apply otherwise I cannot keep it when I go overseas for more than 12-26 weeks (it changes - once they said 6 weeks)." I assume you currently live in Thailand? Because my understanding of the OAP, is that you only have to wait the 2 years for portability if you have been living overseas and return to Oz to apply. If you have been living in Australia, you get portability as soon as you get it granted. We currently live in Australia - she migrated here - we were living in Thailand for some years. Returned to Australia so would qualify for Pension in a few years - and for wife's benefits. Yes if you are overseas you cannot apply - you must return and live in Australia to 'qualify' for age pension. You must stay at least 2 years before being allowed 'portability - but they are cracking down more and more. Liberal policy (not enacted) was to introduce 4 years - Labor/Greens blocked it. In future it will get harder and harder to get the pension when overseas - majority of taxpayers (under 50) and media are against it - and changing it would save the Govt a lot of money. So we decided to come here - live in both when I get pension. She is now resident and we both get free medical treatment here and lots of other good stuff - and she gets pension later too - and after living here for over 10 years she can take it back to Thailand too - after I am gone. Win/win. My kids keep the house here - she keeps the house in Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, Tanoshi said: Your friend has two options based on the information you have supplied, excluding the O-A Visa which would require mandatory health cover. 1. He applies for the Non O multi entry Visa. Valid 1 year. (300 AUD) On entry he will be granted a 90 day stay. He extends this permission to stay for a further 60 days at his local IO. (1,900 BHT) 90 + 60 = 150 days. He does a border run to obtain another 90 day entry. (Cost of Lao Visa + Travel) He extends for another 60 days at his IO. (1,900 BHT) 90 + 60 = 150 days + 90 + 60 = 300 days. More than enough to cover a 9 month stay 2. He applies for the Non O single entry Visa. Valid 90 days. (120 AUD) On entry he will be granted a 90 day stay. He deposits 400K in a Thai bank in his name. When the 400K has been on deposit for 2 months he can apply for an annual extension of stay based on marriage at his local IO. (1,900 BHT) After the extension is granted he can withdraw the 400K and use for living expenses. No border runs, more convenient, cheaper. Good stuff - thanks Tanoshi - much appreciated mate ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimfan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: - and she gets pension later too - and after living here for over 10 years she can take it back to Thailand too - after I am gone. Win/win. It is my understanding for full portability of the pension you will have to have been a resident for 35 years. if she has only been a resident for 10 years then she will only be entitled to 10/35ths of the pension if she leaves the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Swimfan said: It is my understanding for full portability of the pension you will have to have been a resident for 35 years. if she has only been a resident for 10 years then she will only be entitled to 10/35ths of the pension if she leaves the country. Correct. My point is that after 10 years of residence she qualifies for portability. If she gets 15/35th or 20/35th or even 30/35th it is will be a good income for an elderly Thai lady who lives in and owns her own home in Thailand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKresonant Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sheryl said: As there will not be an Embassy/Consulate notation for the insurance renewal he needs to get this certificate completed by his insurer https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf Mission impossible ! it would seem.... ???????????? Edited October 22, 2019 by UKresonant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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