Refused entry at Bangkok Suvarnabhumi from London Heathrow with visa - help returning

[bbi1]

11 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Just face it boys no more living here on tourist visa, they started years ago with the crack down on border runs and people working on 30 day permission to stay, then they cracked on the education visa, now the tourist visa.

Next will be no more retirement visas and marriage visas then they will have achieved their goal of the extinction of foreigners in Thailand and a crashed Thai economy. 

[UKresonant]

40 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

 

Pretty soon they will be begging us to come, rather than telling us in a surly and arrogant manner that we come too often.

I think most will just wonder why a lot of the normally enthusiastic tourists have disappeared. I think generally most Thai's are not aware of the information shared here, and the detail of what is being implemented. I guess most will have a historic view, rather than the time now details, or even the next week situation, that is not clear to many either! 

[sweatalot]

39 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

So if you have passive income or investment income then they can't deny you under Section 12.2 because you have appropriate ways of living in Thailand. Correct?

Of course they can deny you entry with a tourist visa when you want to stay long time. They will not denie you with an appropriate visa.

Edited October 24, 2019 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

17 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Next will be no more retirement visas and marriage visas then they will have achieved their goal of the extinction of foreigners in Thailand and a crashed Thai economy. 

ridiculous

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

What about if you're one of the lucky handful of people in this world born with no fingerprints? What do the IO's do when it comes to fingerprint scanning time?

If you are talking about the 4 registered families in the world that are suffering from adermatoglyphia or Immigration Delay Disease there are other means that can be used for their identification. These 4 families carry notification cards when they travel with the information on so the card is presented to the I/O explaining the problem and then another type of identification is used.

[Timwin]

4 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

For that money, you are not living with good plumbing, space and no rodents

 

Just like tens of millions of Thais!

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, UKresonant said:

I think most will just wonder why a lot of the normally enthusiastic tourists have disappeared. I think generally most Thai's are not aware of the information shared here, and the detail of what is being implemented. I guess most will have a historic view, rather than the time now details, or even the next week situation, that is not clear to many either! 

Many years from now, when students of the hospitality industry are being escorted through totally abandoned four star hotels, they will discuss the effects of hubris, arrogance heinous visa policy and gross incompetence, on a once thriving industry. 

[roo860]

Angry tourists getting angry at how Thailand is running its own policy.
With your "Their economy will crash if we don't come back."
Yeah I bet it will... thinking you are superior and wanted... now stay in the hole you came from or go visit another.

Get you!
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

Of course they can deny you entry with a tourist visa when you want to stay long time. They will not denie you with an appropriate visa.

If there were really rules against serial tourist visas and/or long stay tourists, the appropriate reason for denied entry would be Section 12 (1)

Quote

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport ; or having a genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of a passport without Visaing by the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries ; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs , excepting if a visa is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances.
Visaing and visa exemption will be under the learn and conditions as provided in the Ministerial Regulations.

The translation is horrible, but the meaning clear. You need a passport (or document in lieu of passport) plus an appropriate visa (or qualification for visa exempt).

The fact that you are not denied under Section 12 (1) implies that you have a valid visa to enter Thailand.

Section 12 (2) was never intended to mean "wrong type of visa" or "in the opinion of the official, you cannot any longer stay as a tourist". The terms and conditions in the Ministerial Regulations have instructions to Immigration of application of visa exempt entry. They are silent on visas, except for Section 12 (1) of the Immigration Act. Qualification and screening for visas is the province of consular officials.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

ridiculous

An exaggeration for sure. But no doubt this army despises outsiders. And we despise them in turn. 

[CHdiver]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Many years from now, when students of the hospitality industry are being escorted through totally abandoned four star hotels, they will discuss the effects of hubris, arrogance heinous visa policy and gross incompetence, on a once thriving industry. 

I doubt "Tourists" with back to back Tourist Visas stay in 4* Hotels. However, normal Tourists staying for 2 or 3 weeks once or twice a year do. But they never had a problem to get into the Country and I guess they will not have a problem in the future.

[Max69xl]

54 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

If you are talking about the 4 registered families in the world that are suffering from adermatoglyphia or Immigration Delay Disease there are other means that can be used for their identification. These 4 families carry notification cards when they travel with the information on so the card is presented to the I/O explaining the problem and then another type of identification is used.

They can even use facial recognition if they have to. So, even without fingerprints,there will be ways to identify people. 

[Max69xl]

29 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If there were really rules against serial tourist visas and/or long stay tourists, the appropriate reason for denied entry would be Section 12 (1)

The translation is horrible, but the meaning clear. You need a passport (or document in lieu of passport) plus an appropriate visa (or qualification for visa exempt).

The fact that you are not denied under Section 12 (1) implies that you have a valid visa to enter Thailand.

Section 12 (2) was never intended to mean "wrong type of visa" or "in the opinion of the official, you cannot any longer stay as a tourist". The terms and conditions in the Ministerial Regulations have instructions to Immigration of application of visa exempt entry. They are silent on visas, except for Section 12 (1) of the Immigration Act. Qualification and screening for visas is the province of consular officials.

How hard is it to understand,there are no such thing as a "long term" tourist. In many western countries you're not allowed to stay in another country more than 180 days,and that's because of for example taxes and the residential address. Just because you don't meet the requirements for staying in Thailand long term with a proper visa, then everything is "so unfair". Just because the thai government is slow to change laws and police orders, they have to use the same definitions as many western countries. 

[Max69xl]

14 minutes ago, CHdiver said:

I doubt "Tourists" with back to back Tourist Visas stay in 4* Hotels. However, normal Tourists staying for 2 or 3 weeks once or twice a year do. But they never had a problem to get into the Country and I guess they will not have a problem in the future.

Some of the posters here at TVF will never understand what a "normal tourist is". On top of that they seem to think that everyone in the world can visit a western country without a proper visa. To be honest, I'm real tired of border hoppers and people with phony ED visas and their endless complaints. 

[spidermike007]

14 minutes ago, CHdiver said:

I doubt "Tourists" with back to back Tourist Visas stay in 4* Hotels. However, normal Tourists staying for 2 or 3 weeks once or twice a year do. But they never had a problem to get into the Country and I guess they will not have a problem in the future.

You really missed my point. Which was about consistent administrations that are missing the message on traffic and public safety, tackling scams, improving the education system to allow for better English language skills, getting the RTP franchisees under control, getting the hateful foreigner rhetoric under control,  improving the airports, the speed and efficiency of immigration, tackling inflation, tackling the ridiculously overpriced baht, improving public transport options, coming up with solutions to the pollution issues, and a host of other issues. Shall I go on?

[Max69xl]

48 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

An exaggeration for sure. But no doubt this army despises outsiders. And we despise them in turn. 

You are just another whiner. If everything is so bad,then leave. I guess you're just another "tourist" who doesn't meet the requirements for a proper visa. 

[madmen]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You really missed my point. Which was about consistent administrations that are missing the message on traffic and public safety, tackling scams, improving the education system to allow for better English language skills, getting the RTP franchisees under control, getting the hateful foreigner rhetoric under control,  improving the airports, the speed and efficiency of immigration, tackling inflation, tackling the ridiculously overpriced baht, improving public transport options, coming up with solutions to the pollution issues, and a host of other issues. Shall I go on?

How about you stop criticizing and lay out your 1st world solution to all of the points you mentioned above, in detail... we are all ears!!

[lkv]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You are just another whiner. If everything is so bad,then leave. I guess you're just another "tourist" who doesn't meet the requirements for a proper visa. 

And you're confident that we are interested to know about your "guesses", whilst you are insulting posters?

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, bbi1 said:

So if you have passive income or investment income then they can't deny you under Section 12.2 because you have appropriate ways of living in Thailand. Correct?

Yes if it's been used to meet the requirements to obtain a long term visa/stay permit.

[Number 6]

Why would you want to learn Thai when you're being denied entry to the country?

 

You do realize that unless you get a non o visa your prospects for visiting let alone living in Thailand are nill?

 

Why would you even want to further inconvenience yourself and waste money? Boggles mind.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

If you had read my other thread properly, you would have understood that my conclusion is that they suspect people of working illegally in Thailand. But instead of using section 12.3 to deny them they use 12.2.

Staying long term as a tourist automatically throws up suspicion of working. There have been plenty of people denied entry in the past under 12.3.

 

In the past the focus was very much on stopping westerners illegally working. Many were. But having mostly cracked that nut they are now mopping up the long term tourists that probably aren't working, but are staying too long using tourist visas without being properly vetted. Hence the increased use of 12.2.

 

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

As other posters then pointed out this might be because 12.3 would require proof that the foreigner is working, which they don't have.

There is nothing to say proof is required. The onus is on the visitor to convince the IO's that they aren't working.

 

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

Section 12.2 is more convenient for them to use because they can just say something like "the guy didn't have any money with him and looked like a bum" (they never ask for money or whatever) to justify it. This explanation makes sense to me.

Why use 12.2. If they are going to lie about the person not having any money they could use 12.9.

 

I have seen expulsion notices with both 12.2 and 12.9 cited as the reasons for denial.

[RickG16]

16 hours ago, EricTh said:

Did you not get your fingerprints scanned when you tried to get in?

 

It is used to detect people who change their passports to evade their tainted history.

 

Do you know this for a fact, or is it speculation? 

 

Do we know that when you put your fingers on the scanner, your history is automatically brought up on the immigration officer's screen? I'm sure they could bring up your history if they wanted to, but to me it looks like they spend more time going through your actual passport.............

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by RickG16

[elviajero]

26 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Do you know this for a fact, or is it speculation? 

 

Do we know that when you put your fingers on the scanner, your history is automatically brought up on the immigration officer's screen? I'm sure they could bring up your history if they wanted to, but to me it looks like they spend more time going through your actual passport.............

It was in the news recently that they have caught a lot of people using biometrics.

[moontang]

They were bringing up history relatively fast, well before the scanners.  I think the prints are used to confirm that your print matches the last print...

[RickG16]

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

They were bringing up history relatively fast, well before the scanners.  

But is this only if they choose or need to. I.e. if something has arouse there suspicion?

 

A fresh passport with one visa in it wouldn't arouse suspicion?

 

 

[hugolars]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Some of the posters here at TVF will never understand what a "normal tourist is". On top of that they seem to think that everyone in the world can visit a western country without a proper visa. To be honest, I'm real tired of border hoppers and people with phony ED visas and their endless complaints. 

Many poster here will never understand why Thai embassies sell Visas to people who in reality cannot enter the country. Can you comprehend that this is more logical than your opinion? Imagine buying an cinema ticket but cannot enter the cinema because you have been there to many times? You are not interested in movies but other devious intents to enter? Same same, but different.   

[moontang]

1 minute ago, RickG16 said:

But is this only if they choose or need to. I.e. if something has arouse there suspicion?

 

A fresh passport with one visa in it wouldn't arouse suspicion?

 

 

They always type in your passport number and it brings up your history, then they likely search your name through an indexed list of other entrants.  Many ways to skin a cat.  The worst thing for their careers would be the one to let a terrorist in, but other criminals would be high on the list, and in the process, they will open the can of worms regarding living on a TR Visa.  If I was mid 40s instead of mid 50s, I would be long gone. 

[lkv]

28 minutes ago, hugolars said:

Many poster here will never understand why Thai embassies sell Visas to people who in reality cannot enter the country. Can you comprehend that this is more logical than your opinion? Imagine buying an cinema ticket but cannot enter the cinema because you have been there to many times? You are not interested in movies but other devious intents to enter? Same same, but different.   

????

 

Btw, I know someone that watched the same movie twice in a week with different groups.

 

I will let him know your input.

Edited October 24, 2019 by lkv

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, hugolars said:

Many poster here will never understand why Thai embassies sell Visas to people who in reality cannot enter the country. Can you comprehend that this is more logical than your opinion? Imagine buying an cinema ticket but cannot enter the cinema because you have been there to many times? You are not interested in movies but other devious intents to enter? Same same, but different.   

Buy a Cimema ticket for a movie in a Vegas casino, say MGM, if you have been 86ed, they will use high tech to identify you, and arrest you for trespassing.  A guy got banned for cashing a slot voucher someone abandoned at a machine.. 32 cents... they caught him entering a casino steakhouse 6 months later... he wasn't arrested, but I don't think it helped his relation with his date very much. 

[saengd]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

I would say nobody does. But at least i'm able to read and understand that every country has it's own laws.

A visa gives you permission to travel to country, not to enter it. The job of the IO is to determine whether you may enter, using a series of rules about which he has considerable latitude, including his personal judgement and this is true of any IO anywhere. Imagine if you showed up at Heathrow with a visa and the IO asked you a few questions and you told him to <deleted> of you fascist scum. You may well have all the other bits and pieces necessary to enter successfully but the IO didn't think you ought to enter because of your attitude, in which case you would be denied using some vague blanket rule, not in the public interest, or similar.

 

The IO in Thailand is not as proficient as you in English but he goes through a similar process, he asks questions but doesn't believe/comprehend fully your answers, IN AN ENVIRONMENT OF HEIGHTENED SCRUTINY WHERE A HIGH PROPORTION OF VISA HOLDERS ARE HANDING HIM FAIRY STORIES, and pow, you just got excluded. If you were expecting that what follows might be the same as the UK, several levels of review by increasingly senior officers, you would be mistaken. If you were expecting that an excuse of, well it worked OK last year, might be OK, you would also be mistaken.