These are the world's best (and worst) pension systems

[sunnyboy2018]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:46 PM, White Christmas13 said:

Since when do you pay tax on a pension?

I am british. I pay tax on my retirement income.

[Number 6]

I'll only get about USD 10k per year at 62. I planned it that way living abroad. Figured it would go bust or they'd inflate the currency. Either way worth nothing. Why pay in when nothing comes out? Two 401k and two Roth IRA. Physical metals, coins, banknotes. Some art with parents but will be stolen and sold by my brothers when parents die in few years.

 

Gotta laff at everyone paid into that sinkhole.

 

My parents paid next to nothing into system half their lives. Drawing sweet checks from SS. Medicare looks okay. Even uncle is well pleased. That will go bust too. Thanks boomers and old people.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I'll only get about USD 10k per year at 62. I planned it that way living abroad. Figured it would go bust or they'd inflate the currency. Either way worth nothing. Why pay in when nothing comes out? Two 401k and two Roth IRA. Physical metals, coins, banknotes. Some art with parents but will be stolen and sold by my brothers when parents die in few years.

 

Gotta laff at everyone paid into that sinkhole.

 

My parents paid next to nothing into system half their lives. Drawing sweet checks from SS. Medicare looks okay. Even uncle is well pleased. That will go bust too. Thanks boomers and old people.

Predictions like yours about the collpase of the currency have been plaguing reality based discourse since the time of FDR.  The fact that these predictions haven't come true. that inflation is extremely low, seems to matter not one bit to its proponents. Anyway, if I were you, I'd take your savings and spend them down as soon as you can. Because, as millions of Christians can testify, and have been testifying for 2000 years,  Jesus is coming any day now. And then all your money will be worth nothing.

[Number 6]

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Predictions like yours about the collpase of the currency have been plaguing reality based discourse since the time of FDR.  The fact that these predictions haven't come true. that inflation is extremely low, seems to matter not one bit to its proponents. Anyway, if I were you, I'd take your savings and spend them down as soon as you can. Because, as millions of Christians can testify, and have been testifying for 2000 years,  Jesus is coming any day now. And then all your money will be worth nothing.

Hahaha you're so funny. The currency is totally debased. I was just thinking a few days ago what I could buy in the 80s and what it costs now. Then I recalled candy bars I'd bought as a kid for 5 cents now 30-60 cents depending.

 

All currencies are being debased. The USD will collapse when it ceases to become reserve currency, people stop buying bonds, inflation let loose. Even repeat of 2009-10 not only possible but will occur. The stock market is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

 

You'll get your 2000$$ in social security alright. You can then buy groceries for a week with it.

 

It will be impossible for the US government to pay out social security in fifteen years. They have and will continue to inflate the currency. Helicopter money borrowed from the Fed. Debased currency - but you'll get your full payout!!! Maybe more. How much do you want lol? We'll print it for you.

 

UBI to keep the masses in line, sure...here's 1000 a month. No problem. Don't spend it in one place okay ????

 

20 dollars for a water and half a sub sandwich in metropolitan museum of art.

 

Visiting my folks a few weeks back, father reminiscing about his first big job. He was paid about 65 dollars for the month. Covered all the bills. He got a promotion and raise. They bought their first home.

 

Lastlaff.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

No you could not. As the maximum British state pension is about 7500k BPS thats only 23k Thai baht a month. That is not enough. The thai government you to have a retirement income of 65k baht and that is not enough to live really.

Married people only need 40k for a VISA extension.

But you don't need any income with 400k in the bank (10,000GBP).

I'm living on 40k/month and it's enough.

[bristolboy]

41 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Hahaha you're so funny. The currency is totally debased. I was just thinking a few days ago what I could buy in the 80s and what it costs now. Then I recalled candy bars I'd bought as a kid for 5 cents now 30-60 cents depending.

 

All currencies are being debased. The USD will collapse when it ceases to become reserve currency, people stop buying bonds, inflation let loose. Even repeat of 2009-10 not only possible but will occur. The stock market is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

 

You'll get your 2000$$ in social security alright. You can then buy groceries for a week with it.

 

It will be impossible for the US government to pay out social security in fifteen years. They have and will continue to inflate the currency. Helicopter money borrowed from the Fed. Debased currency - but you'll get your full payout!!! Maybe more. How much do you want lol? We'll print it for you.

 

UBI to keep the masses in line, sure...here's 1000 a month. No problem. Don't spend it in one place okay ????

 

20 dollars for a water and half a sub sandwich in metropolitan museum of art.

 

Visiting my folks a few weeks back, father reminiscing about his first big job. He was paid about 65 dollars for the month. Covered all the bills. He got a promotion and raise. They bought their first home.

 

Lastlaff.

Thanks Nostradamus for sharing with us your fundamental misunderstanding of currency. You are thinking of a dollar bill as being a share in something. And since, by your lights, that share is now exchanged for less goods or services than it was before therefore you are somehow poorer. But what you don't take into account is not the value of an individual dollar but how many dollars you hold or earn now as opposed to back when. Let's say that since 1039 inflation has lowered the value of a dollar by 90 percent. But average earning are now 20 times what they were back then. Are you richer or poorer? It's all about how much total purchasing power you have.

As for your assertion that "It will be impossible for the US government to pay out social security in fifteen years", that's just another example of your misunderstanding. Even if the funds run out by 2034 actuaries say most of its obligations can still by paid by incoming revenue. What's more, if the ceiling on taxable income were removed, Social Security would be solvent as far as can be reasonably predicted. 

[Number 6]

54 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But average earning are now 20 times what they were back then.

Average salaries haven't risen in decades. But whatever.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

 

I believe social security will face major issues in fifteen years starting with shortfalls. That's my gambit and I'm ok with it. Like I said, they'll print money to meet the obligation thus debasing all the currency.

 

50% of the country making less than 33k USD currently. I was making that at my first job out of university in 1985. Wait till AI really takes hold and white collar workers start losing jobs as the working class.

 

1M homeless never to return to employment roles.

 

Real unemployment must be well over 10%.

 

But glad you're emboldened by American financial prowess. You're faith in Congress and Fed is far more than I ever had nor ever will.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Married people only need 40k for a VISA extension.

But you don't need any income with 400k in the bank (10,000GBP).

I'm living on 40k/month and it's enough.

I repeat: the British state pension is about 23 k baht and it is not enough to live off here in Thailand as you suggested but went on to say you need 40k per month. Make your mind up.

[chrisandsu]

7 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

No you could not. As the maximum British state pension is about 7500k BPS thats only 23k Thai baht a month. That is not enough. The thai government you to have a retirement income of 65k baht and that is not enough to live really.

I’ll repeat myself again . My dad lived in the uk . I don’t . 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Average salaries haven't risen in decades. But whatever.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

 

I believe social security will face major issues in fifteen years starting with shortfalls. That's my gambit and I'm ok with it. Like I said, they'll print money to meet the obligation thus debasing all the currency.

 

50% of the country making less than 33k USD currently. I was making that at my first job out of university in 1985. Wait till AI really takes hold and white collar workers start losing jobs as the working class.

 

1M homeless never to return to employment roles.

 

Real unemployment must be well over 10%.

 

But glad you're emboldened by American financial prowess. You're faith in Congress and Fed is far more than I ever had nor ever will.

More misunderstanding. Those salaries may not have budged but those figures are adjusted for inflation i.e. real income. So your point about inflation is still wrong.

And here's the BLS figures which are reckoned to be the gold standard:

 

And your figure of 50 percent of the country making less than 33k applies individual personal income. Household income tells quite a different story:

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N?utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=categories

 

I'm not claiming things are good for most working class and middle class Americans..  But the general inflation rate has nothing to do with that.

 

[sidgy]

"I don’t think it does rate as the worst state pension in the world, in fact according to the OP it ranks as the 14th best"
 
Your words. You appear to be assuming that every aspect has been taken into consideration.

Yes my words, I guess you should learn to read them
Your words as per post 44 in regard to UK “ must rank it as the worst state pension in the world”
I disagreed with this hence my post. If you learn to read it carefully, you will see the OP rated it as 14th best in the world, not me and I neither agreed or disagreed with the results of the OPs findings. I did however disagree with your absurd statement that it is the worst in the world, and it would appear it is yourself who is assuming that all aspects have not been taken into consideration but even if they haven’t, I still do not think your points would merit your laughable belief that it is worse then every other state pension in the world


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[terminalmadness]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:14 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

The max UK state pension is about 7500k which is not enough to live off.

how much....£7,500/ year?

[Nigel Garvie]

   On 10/23/2019 at 10:14 PM,  sunnyboy2018 said: 

The max UK state pension is about 7500k which is not enough to live off.

6 minutes ago, terminalmadness said:

how much....£7,500/ year?

The basic is around £6750 pa, unless you benefit from pre 97 additional state pension less COD (Contracted out deduction) as I understand it. It is of course not enough to live off, it is just there to save the better off from the embarrassment of having to watch UK OAPs die from starvation. We wouldn't want our poor to have decent pensions like those awful continentals that we are trying to get away from now - would we. 

[Lacessit]

I must admit I was quite surprised the Australian OAP came in as third best, although I've never whinged about what I am getting.

I don't think it can last, however. My son will be more dependent on what he inherits from me and his mother, because by the time he gets to pension age there probably will be less in the kitty, for a growing population.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thailand has its own unique government sponsored retirement program.

 

It works like this: You go out riding on your motorcycle or take a public van somewhere, and get turned into human marmalade on the road somewhere. And then you are PERMANENTLY retired, with no further expense to the government or related family members....  

 

It also works quite well for keeping down the costs of old age care.  

 

 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thailand has its own unique government sponsored retirement program.

 

It works like this: You go out riding on your motorcycle or take a public van somewhere, and get turned into human marmalade on the road somewhere. And then you are PERMANENTLY retired, with no further expense to the government or related family members....  

 

It also works quite well for keeping down the costs of old age care.  

 

 

 As opposed to farangs where only their  brain turns to marmalade and retire in Thailand. LOL

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thailand has its own unique government sponsored retirement program.

 

It works like this: You go out riding on your motorcycle or take a public van somewhere, and get turned into human marmalade on the road somewhere. And then you are PERMANENTLY retired, with no further expense to the government or related family members....  

 

It also works quite well for keeping down the costs of old age care.  

 

 

It doesn't work all that well for a rural Thai, whose highest degree of transport sophistication is a bicycle, and moreover has never been outside their village. 80 yo, 800 baht/month.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, sidgy said:

Yes my words, I guess you should learn to read them
Your words as per post 44 in regard to UK “ must rank it as the worst state pension in the world”
I disagreed with this hence my post. If you learn to read it carefully, you will see the OP rated it as 14th best in the world, not me and I neither agreed or disagreed with the results of the OPs findings. I did however disagree with your absurd statement that it is the worst in the world, and it would appear it is yourself who is assuming that all aspects have not been taken into consideration but even if they haven’t, I still do not think your points would merit your laughable belief that it is worse then every other state pension in the world


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

It is each to their own interpretation.

You are obviously quite prepared to defend discrimination and consider it laughable.

[crees]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:19 AM, Damrongsak said:

I do have Medicare  at low cost but I don't think it pays abroad.  Medicaid is free for the really poor.  Like my brother who seems to have developed a possibly fatal motor neuron disease.  Fun stuff.

I do pay for Medicare A and B, plus 100% VA Disability (three Purple Hearts) and abroad that does not buy me a cup of coffee

[Snow Leopard]

On 10/24/2019 at 11:08 PM, pegman said:

We use to hear that from the right (Reform Party) in Canada all the time. Conservative/Right leaning gov's hate pensions. Have they introduced or improved upon them anywhere? One of our centrist gov's started a fund to divert pension contributions to so they could be invested and grow in value. It's doing very well so I'm very sure it will be there when my soon to be 6 grand-babies need it. I wonder how many posters on here vote for pension hating right wing parties then complain about the results? Those conservative/right gov's always seem to find a way to cut taxes for corporations and the super rich though. 

 

http://www.cppib.com/en/

Looks a good way to go. 

[Tounge Thaied]

[HauptmannUK]

I don't think any British person seriously expects to live on the state pension. Most people I know have made their own private provision or are in company schemes. I took early retirement and have a pretty good income from a private scheme plus investments. For most British people the state pension just pays for holidays or 'luxuries'.

[chrisandsu]

1 minute ago, HauptmannUK said:

I don't think any British person seriously expects to live on the state pension. Most people I know have made their own private provision or are in company schemes. I took early retirement and have a pretty good income from a private scheme plus investments. For most British people the state pension just pays for holidays or 'luxuries'.

I could be wrong, but I’m sure my brother mentioned to me that everyone has to pay into a private pension as well . 

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I don't think any British person seriously expects to live on the state pension. Most people I know have made their own private provision or are in company schemes. I took early retirement and have a pretty good income from a private scheme plus investments. For most British people the state pension just pays for holidays or 'luxuries'.

For many the state pension is all they have.

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

I could be wrong, but I’m sure my brother mentioned to me that everyone has to pay into a private pension as well . 

One in three UK retirees will have to rely solely on state pension

About 15 million people have no pension savings and face a bleak future in retirement, according to a major survey of Britain’s personal finances published this week by the Financial Conduct Authority.

 

The Financial Lives survey of 13,000 consumers by the FCA, the biggest of its kind, found that 31% of UK adults have no private pension provision and will have to rely entirely on the state in their retirement. The full state pension is £159.55 per week, but that is only available to individuals who have a complete record of national insurance contributions.

 

Of particular worry is the group of people aged over 50 who are not paying into a pension and have few years left to build one up before they reach their 60s. When the FCA asked why they had made no provision, 32% said it was too late to set one up, 26% said they could not afford it and 12% said they were relying on their partner’s pension.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

 

[Cryingdick]

The best pension anywhere in the world is private. In the USA the name Social Security should tell you that it isn't intended to be your entire retirement. It is meant as a safe guard.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

The best pension anywhere in the world is private. In the USA the name Social Security should tell you that it isn't intended to be your entire retirement. It is meant as a safe guard.

Tell that to people in the Netherlands. See post # 171.

[Assurancetourix]

6 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

 

About France which is my country, ...

 

It's wrong ;
74.5% is the pension that state employees receive, thus about 3 million people compared to about 35 million working people.

The civil servant have 74,5 % of their last gross salary, without premiums and provided they have received at least six months and a day ...
Civil servants  are generally less well paid than those working in the private sector.
In the private sector the pension is equal to 50% of the average of the 25 best years ...
In fact it does not do much heavy.
Fortunately, many companies have put in place a supplementary pension system that allows those who are retiring to receive about 74.5% of their income as civil servants.

But there are millions of people working on their own;
traders, craftsmen, doctors and nurses from the private sector, farmers and I certainly forget about it ..
These people contribute a lot to touch very little.

I have the example of my brother who was a general practitioner for about 35 years, he had comfortable income but once retired he barely touches 1,500 euros monthly;
he has contributed to one or two additional pensions because he had the means and actually earn a little over 2,000 euros per month.
A friend who was (small) industrialist in France and was working around 10,000 euros a month is currently receiving less than 2,000 euros a month; we are very far from the 74.5% of the table.

the farmers who have made all their life a very difficult job in all weather and without counting their hours affect on average 700 to 800 euros per month ...

[Damrongsak]

I never worked for a company that had a pension plan in the USA, though some helped contribute to private saving plans.  I paid in to Social Security like we had to, but that is just to keep one above the poverty like, if barely that.  I didn't work for government or a big business, just worked hard. I always knew I had to save or it was my butt on the line.  I did and I have little sympathy for others who suddenly find the rules have changed and they are cut short.  Never depend on the kindness of strangers, as they are strange.

 

Zero debt, own the house, 20 year old vehicle, no fancy vacations and all that.  Conservative, I guess.  One has to cover one's own back side.  

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Damrongsak said:

I never worked for a company that had a pension plan in the USA, though some helped contribute to private saving plans.  I paid in to Social Security like we had to, but that is just to keep one above the poverty like, if barely that.  I didn't work for government or a big business, just worked hard. I always knew I had to save or it was my butt on the line.  I did and I have little sympathy for others who suddenly find the rules have changed and they are cut short.  Never depend on the kindness of strangers, as they are strange.

 

Zero debt, own the house, 20 year old vehicle, no fancy vacations and all that.  Conservative, I guess.  One has to cover one's own <deleted>.  

 

That's exactly how it is supposed to work. You hear all these people sit and cry about their SS and one has to think did you never think for yourself the past 40 years of your life?