Transfering 800k bhat via Transferwise--not a good experience

[LivinLOS]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

You have to do something to sign off as that page will just stay there and there is no option to do anything else but click on one of the selections.

close tab.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

close tab.

Unlike any normal website in the world?  And not a good idea when using a financial site - much better to sign out and then close tab.  

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Never said they did transfer large amounts all the time.  Just giving a comparison of various amounts since sometimes people do try to send large amounts....like the title of this thread.

Both revolut and TW operate much better on mobile IMO. They are 'mobile first' interfaces and the TW website especially is confused and UI/UX poor. 

[LivinLOS]

15 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Then does that "got it" refer to when the money actually arrived in the TW account after going through the ACH process?

 

Ithimk there is a "get around" option so you could use the push system if preferred,

Yes the 'go it' is for when you have received the money.. I believe he is displaying the UK based TW which I also use and in the UK with faster banking these movements are usually done in seconds. The got it then allows them to test certain routing for costs, speeds, etc. 

 

[Max69xl]

24 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

We also, permanently, have the £50 offer for introducing new clients, but not the page you've shown as a screenshot. The offer shown on both the webpage and the app. 

 

Do you push the transfer yourself or request TW to pull it from your bank account? That could explain the "got it" difference page.

The £50 offer is not new, I've seen it at least a couple of years.

And the "Got it" button is totally irrelevant because the transfer has already started. No need to even click on it. 

The only reason you need to transfer the money to a local TW account yourself is the lower fee if that's what you want. It's called a "Low cost transfer fee". That delays the transfer a bit,but so what? Who needs the money instantly? I transfer my money on a monthly basis and want the money in my account the 24th. So, I transfer the money the 23rd. 

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Unlike any normal website in the world?  And not a good idea when using a financial site - much better to sign out and then close tab.  

You don't need to click on Got it to be able to log out. Do you see the X up to the right? You click on the X and then on next page you click on your profile up to the right,and then Logout.

[Max69xl]

31 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Both revolut and TW operate much better on mobile IMO. They are 'mobile first' interfaces and the TW website especially is confused and UI/UX poor. 

I agree, TW's app are far better than the website. 

[Max69xl]

29 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Yes the 'go it' is for when you have received the money.. I believe he is displaying the UK based TW which I also use and in the UK with faster banking these movements are usually done in seconds. The got it then allows them to test certain routing for costs, speeds, etc. 

 

The "Got it" only appears on the website when the transfer has started. It doesn't exist in the mobile app. No one needs to click on it. 

[LivinLOS]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I agree, TW's app are far better than the website. 

Also they have 2 factor authentication so that web log in has the mobile app for confirm, far safer and should be enabled by anyone whose not security conscious and who understands thier risks.

[JimGant]

On 10/29/2019 at 9:42 PM, blorg said:

Transferwise also now allows USD transfers to foreign USD bank accounts in Thailand. These are sent by SWIFT. In this case TW won't do the conversion, your Thai bank will, but Bangkok Bank at least has better rates than TW, certainly for large amounts. TW's fee for this is very low, around $4. Theoretically this is meant to go to a USD account in Thailand (i.e. a FCD) but I suspect if you sent it to a THB denominated account your Thai bank would convert it automatically. Easy to set up a Thai USD FCD if not anyway.

 

https://transferwise.com/help/14/currencies/2946451/sending-us-dollars-to-countries-outside-the-us

Blorg, I'd completely missed this when I did my post #51, criticizing  TW's high cost for high amount transfers -- and wondering why they didn't compete at the SWIFT level. But, per your post and link, indeed they do. The only negative may be the requirement to SWIFT dollars only to a USD denominated account. But, I agree with you -- this may not be an actual requirement; we'll see, as I just sent a SWIFT via TW to my Thai bank account, which is denominated in Baht.

 

If this avenue is open to baht accounts, here's what I'd pay to send $26,500, or about the 800k baht in the title of this thread:

And the $9,67 includes the $3.20 SWIFT fee mentioned in the link. This is certainly competitive with the old BB NY ACH upfront fee of $10 for amounts over $2000. And, yeah, the backend 500 baht fee will apply, unlike with a classic TW transaction; and yeah, the buying TT rate you'll get is less favorable than TW's FX rate. But when you compare $9.67 with $181 -- all these other number comparisons are completely irrelevant.

 

Will let you know when, and if, my SWIFT via TW arrives at my Bangkok Bank account.

Edited November 1, 2019 by JimGant

[JimGant]

31 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You don't need to click on Got it to be able to log out. Do you see the X up to the right? You click on the X and then on next page you click on your profile up to the right,and then Logout.

Oh, you're so bloody clever. How about another lecture on double tax agreements, sharing your incredible knowledge on how they function......

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Blorg, I'd completely missed this when I did my post #51, criticizing  TW's high cost for high amount transfers -- and wondering why they didn't compete at the SWIFT level. But, per your post and link, indeed they do. The only negative may be the requirement to SWIFT dollars only to a USD denominated account. But, I agree with you -- this may not be an actual requirement; we'll see, as I just sent a SWIFT via TW to my Thai bank account, which is denominated in Baht.

 

If this avenue is open to baht accounts, here's what I'd pay to send $26,500, or about the 800k baht in the title of this thread:

And the $9,67 includes the $3.20 SWIFT fee mentioned in the link. This is certainly competitive with the old BB NY ACH upfront fee of $10 for amounts over $2000. And, yeah, the backend 500 baht fee will apply, unlike with a classic TW transaction; and yeah, the buying TT rate you'll get is less favorable than TW's FX rate. But when you compare $9.67 with $181 -- all these other number comparisons are completely irrelevant.

 

Will let you know when, and if, my SWIFT via TW arrives at my Bangkok Bank account.

Jim,

How did you fund the transfer?  Wire TW the money?  ACH Debit?  

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Oh, you're so bloody clever. How about another lecture on double tax agreements, sharing your incredible knowledge on how they function......

I do think I know a lot more than you about computers and internet. People like you need a "Got it" button for everything. And you seem to think that every double tax agreement is the same. It's not. 

[LivinLOS]

22 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I do think I know a lot more than you about computers and internet. People like you need a "Got it" button for everything. And you seem to think that every double tax agreement is the same. It's not. 

But its hard to tell which ones are in effect when posters make vague claims and then refuse to clarify which country they are talking about and what form of pension is the subject of discussion. Its almost as if they know they are wrong, but are hiding the facts to avoid it being made obvious. 

[JimGant]

57 minutes ago, Pib said:

Jim,

How did you fund the transfer?  Wire TW the money?  ACH Debit?  

ACH debit. I had to set up a recipient account, using dollars, but designating Thailand as receiving country. Then, they ask for the SWIFT number and account number. Then, when you go to transfer, you just check the "primary USD account ending in xxxx."

Below is the screen, before they include the $3.20 SWIFT fee. I can't imagine it will be rejected, as this is the same process as BB NY sending those dollars you ACHed, then when it arrives at the front door of your BB Thai baht account, it's converted at the convening TT buying rate. And, the BB NY process was actually a SWIFT transfer when it crossed the pond. We'll see.

 

[thailand49]

19 hours ago, Max69xl said:

I think you have misunderstood the need for a transfer to be foreign, that means showing up in the bank book as FTT. When using the >800k method in the bank, it's not needed, and never have been. BUT, when using the >65k monthly method, the transfers have to be foreign,meaning they should show up as FTT in the bank book. This will probably not be a problem in the future, because immigration is starting to learn that transfers don't show up as foreign every time depending on type of transfer. You have to choose the correct reason ("Funds for long term stay in Thailand") for the transfer to look like foreign in the bank book. This is a well known fact if you're used to TW. TW hasn't changed bank in Thailand as you wrote, they have 3 banking partners, Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank and Thai Military Bank. About problems transferring larger sums, that's because of regulations in the US and probably in other countries, too. The main reason for using TW is lower fees,higher rates and fast transfers. TW wasn't designed for retired expats in Thailand,try to remember that,and in your case you don't need the transfers to be foreign,right? 

I DON'T THINK I MISUNDERSTOOD GO BACK AND SLOWLY READ MY POST AGAIN!

I'm not disputing your comments, just responding as to my own experience commenting doesn't mean I disagree. I fully aware as to why people use TW, it doesn't mean it can't be used for large transfers, I also noted why it might be tougher to do large amounts!

I also noted based on what I read on ThaiVisa as to why TW applicants were having problems recently with FTT on their transfer indicate as to what TW told me online when I asked, go back double check.

I also noted on my research as to why I decided to use TW, even for the large amount! go back and read!

I also noted on my report as to the reason when I was down Immigration to double check and ask I don't consider asking to double check being a problem it is just a few words there isn't any money involved nor sweat of my me!

If you finally read and comprehend, although TW doesn't do large amount normally, in the end, when I decided to use TW I did it for large amounts and had no problem!  that is something I do remember. I suggest you read what is written before you start correcting!

Edited November 1, 2019 by thailand49

[Pib]

Jim,

  Thanks.   While you were posting above I was on Transferwise setting up myself as a recipient according to their instructions at their weblink below.  I had been aware of this option for a long time but just never gave it a try when I was doing my transfers with Transferwise.  Probably never gave it try because it said the funds needed to go to a USD acct and I figured there must be some other Transferwise fees somewhere.

 

  But after setting up the recipient to receive USD vs THB and starting a transfer to that recipient I was then able to see the pricing for a USD SWIFT transfer.  Not bad at all.  And at least on my account you could use ACH Debit up to $20,000 to fund the transfer....but go to a penny over and you only have the wire option to fund the transfer which means you'll incur whatever domestic wire fee your US bank charges which is probably going to be around $20 for most banks.  But I know you can get free domestic wire transfers and I have a way to get $6 domestic wires.

 

  But I notice when setting up the transfer depending on the amount I was sending even if wiring the money to Transferwise, the projected deliver date from today/1 Nov was 7 or 8 Nov.....that ain't too swift even considering the upcoming weekend...but maybe once actually launching the transfer the delivery date would be better.

 

  So, how much did you really send in this test.  $26,500 or $1000 or _____ in this SWIFT test?

 

https://transferwise.com/help/14/currencies/2946451/sending-us-dollars-to-countries-outside-the-us

[JimGant]

23 minutes ago, Pib said:

So, how much did you really send in this test.  $26,500 or $1000 or _____ in this SWIFT test?

100 bucks. If it goes south, so be it.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

100 bucks. If it goes south, so be it.

Did you use ACH Debit or Wire to fund the transfer?

[Pib]

Doing some quick math on using TW to send USD via their SWIFT method vs using TW to send THB (i.e, their regular method), below is what I came up with for transfer amounts of $2,200 (approx Bt65K) and $10,000.   

 

Exchange rates used were those in effect at TW and Bangkok Bank when doing the calculation a few minutes ago.  ACH Debit is used to fund the transfer/determine TW fees.  Please note that at around $2,700 a person can save on TW fees by Wiring them the funds "if" your bank happens to offer free wire transfers....I know, most US banks do not....most charge around $20 for a domestic transfer...but some people can get them free (I'm not one of them but I can do $6 domestic wires).

 

Anyway, when the fee and exchange rate dust settles in appears there is little difference between using SWIFT with Transferwise (i.e., they send USD instead of THB) compared to using their regular transfer method (i.e., they send THB).  But TW regular sending method still wins out. 

 

And I wonder what the SWIFT routing will be used...the routing could involved Bahtnet for the final leg of the transfer which means the transfer would end-up being coded as a Bahtnet/domestic transfer unless going to the bank to get a Credit Advice to prove it was a foreign transfer.  

 

But when a person wants to transfer USD but doing an international wire from their US bank is a pain/costly (a common event), this TW SWIFT method (if it works) could make things easier/cheaper for some.  Looking forward to the results of JimGant's test....I placing my bets that it will work even when being sent to a THB acct.  

 

Regular Method: Sending USD but TW accomplishes the exchange and sends THB

Send $2,200

$21.01 in TW Fees

TW Exchange Rate: 30.185

Posting to Thai bank acct Bt65,772

 

Send $10,000

$87.62 in TW Fees

TW Exchange Rate: 30.185

Posting to Thai bank acct Bt299,205

 

**********************************

 

SWIFT Method: Sending USD....TW actually sends USD vs THB....Thai bank accomplishes exchange to THB

Send 2,200.

$8.72 in TW Fees

Thai bank exchange rate: 30.02

Bt200 Thai bank receiving fee

Posting to Thai bank acct B65,582

 

Send $10,000

$24.29 in TW Fees

Thai bank exchange Rate: 30.02

Bt500 Thai bank receiving fee

Posting to Thai bank acct Bt298,970

 

 

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

ACH debit. I had to set up a recipient account, using dollars, but designating Thailand as receiving country. Then, they ask for the SWIFT number and account number. Then, when you go to transfer, you just check the "primary USD account ending in xxxx."

Below is the screen, before they include the $3.20 SWIFT fee. I can't imagine it will be rejected, as this is the same process as BB NY sending those dollars you ACHed, then when it arrives at the front door of your BB Thai baht account, it's converted at the convening TT buying rate. And, the BB NY process was actually a SWIFT transfer when it crossed the pond. We'll see.

 

 

Jim,

   After setting my recipient acct to use USD but designating Thailand as the receiving country I get a completely different/higher SWIFT fee amount than yours above.  I wonder why the difference?

 

[JimGant]

18 minutes ago, Pib said:

After setting my recipient acct to use USD but designating Thailand as the receiving country I get a completely different/higher SWIFT fee amount than yours above.  I wonder why the difference?

My screen is from the first step, and doesn't include the $3.20 SWIFT fee. Your screen must be from the next step...and does include the $3.20.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

My screen is from the first step, and doesn't include the $3.20 SWIFT fee. Your screen must be from the next step...and does include the $3.20.

First step?  For the life of me I can't figure out how you get such a first step.  It's sure not offered to me.  My first step is like I posted.

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, Pib said:

First step?  For the life of me I can't figure out how you get such a first step.  It's sure not offered to me.  My first step is like I posted.

It's the screen you get before you designate a recipient -- just punch in an amount and have both currency boxes reflect USD. This gives you the costs before they add the SWIFT fee. The second screen is when you designate a 'USD recipient,' and that's the screen you're getting, which includes the $3.20.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Actually TW DOES make a saving on larger transfers. 2m Baht is the maximum I believe.

 

Because the EXCHANGE RATE is always significantly better, it will always outweigh increased transfer FEES on any transfer via a bank. I speak from experience of UK transfers and presume this will apply elsewhere.

 

I have just done a comparison of TW vs bank transfer UK to Kasikorn. Even with no bank fees at either end TW is still 10,000 Baht better, even with transfer fees of £298.

With Transferwise and a larger transfer, you see the Fee, and it is a frightening large number that is many times the Swift fee your bank might charge, but, as you say, they cover it with an exchange rate far superior to what the Thai receiving bank would be giving. 

Better in your pocket than theirs.

Edited November 2, 2019 by jacko45k

[Pib]

15 hours ago, JimGant said:

It's the screen you get before you designate a recipient -- just punch in an amount and have both currency boxes reflect USD. This gives you the costs before they add the SWIFT fee. The second screen is when you designate a 'USD recipient,' and that's the screen you're getting, which includes the $3.20.

Nope....will not work on my acct.  The only way I can enter USD twice (i.e., in the send and receive fields) is by first creating the USD SWIFT recipient and then starting a transfer by selecting that recipient....I can then enter USD twice....and it automatically adds in that extra $3.20 SWIFT fee like.   I tried multiple ways last night and this morning to enter USD twice in other ways....no can do.......just no way for me to enter USD twice unless starting the transfer from the USD SWIFT recipient which is fine as that's the screen a person ultimately ends up with.   

 

Strange I can not get the screen like you are getting.

[JimGant]

After I click on the green box for "send money," I get the box shown below: USD in "you send," Baht in "recipient gets." In the latter, I click the drop down box, and get what's shown. This is where I designate USD. The second box is what I then get after hitting continue -- it's the box without a designated recipient, nor the $3.20 SWIFT fee. Then, when I hit continue, I can designate the "USD recipient" from a list that I had previously established that contains the data like SWIFT code and account number. The next box then has the $3.20 SWIFT fee. Which version of DOS are you using?

 

 

[Pib]

Nope....doesn't work for me like it's working for you...where you are selecting the Recipient on the second or third screen.   That is, by just by clicking the green send button USD is not offered in the Recipient Gets field...USD is nowhere listed in the pull down menu nor if you type in USD to try to force feed the USD selection.   As mentioned earlier since I already have USD selected in the You Send field then USD is not offered in the Recipient Gets field "like you are doing it....like how you start the send process."  

 

The only way for me to get USD in both fields is by first selecting the SWIFT USD-USD recipient I setup and then the extra $3.20 is never shown separately in an earlier screen as it's already added into the Our Fee number.  I do this my first selecting Recipients from the main menu on the left side.

 

Like I have three recipients setup up with one of them being the SWIFT USD-USD recipient....the other two are just USD-THB recipients.  However, when staring by selecting the green send button like you are doing it and when I reach the recipient area it only offers two of my recipients....the two USD-THB recipients....the SWIFT USD-USD recipient is not offered. 

 

However, start the send process by going to your Recipients from the main menu and all three recipients are shown...then click on the SWIFT USD-USD recipient, select the green Send button for that recipient and I can enter USD in both fields (actually USD is already listed in the Recipient Gets field and I then select USD for the You Send field....and the $3.20 is already mixed in with the Our Fee....never a separate screen listing the $3.20 SWIFT fee. 

 

When I "originally creating" the SWIFT USD-USD recipient there was a message box that appeared saying there would be extra $3.20 SWIFT fee but after completing the recipient initial creation/setup that $3.20 extra fee is never shown separately again for me....it's already added into the Our Fee amount. I even the deleted the recipient and recreated it twice to see if that would make a different....but nope it didn't.

 

My version of DOS is the latest Win 10 Pro and Chrome.

 

Must be something different about our accts are setup or how we setup the SWIFT USD-USD recipient.  I did follow the instructions on the Transferwise webpage....easy setup.  But regardless, I'm still able to do a USD-USD SWIFT transfer it's just must be done differently that how it's working for you.

 

Edit:  Was your Transferwise acct opened using your Thailand address or US address?  Maybe that's making a difference if we used different country addresses.  Mine was opened with my US address.

 

 

What I get when doing it your way....USD is not offered for the Recipient Gets field in the pull down menu (every currency except USD is offered)  or if typing in USD.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Pib

[JimGant]

The $100 I sent as a SWIFT via TW posted to my Thai baht account at Bangkok Bank on Nov 4, 9:54AM Thai time. This was two days earlier than advertised; thus, I'm not sure how reliable TW's travel time estimates would be with SWIFT transfers.... Anyway, yes, this proved (one time, at least) that you can use TW's SWIFT system to send to a baht denominated account (they say it's supposed to be a USD denominated account). And, like a typical SWIFT transfer, it showed up as an international transfer (FTT).

 

But nothing to write home about. My 100 bucks, at the 30.01 TT rate, less 200 baht backend fee, netted me 2665 baht; a standard bank debit TW transfer would have netted 2924 baht. Barf.

 

In Pib's post 200, above, he shows that higher amounts close the gap -- but I'm not exactly sure where a SWIFT becomes better (dust off the spreadsheet, Pib). At $15000, using bank debit for both transactions; today's guaranteed 30.245 rate for a standard TW transfer; and today's 30.10 Bangkok Bank TT rate -- a SWIFT would net you 449968, and a standard TW transfer would net 449733. But, the TT rate won't be 30.10 when the money arrives; so you'll either be better off, or worse---. Which, if you like surety, seems to give the nod to the standard TW transfer, particularly since the two net amounts are so close.

 

Pib's numbers for a $2200 transfer also give the nod to a standard TW transfer. However, the difference isn't significant, so if you want FTT notation, a SWIFT might be in order (but the timing of a SWIFT transfer is still questionable, at least with a one event statistical sample).

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

Jim,

  Thanks for doing the test...good update.  And there was no intermediary bank fee which some of TW's SWIFT disclaimers mentioned there is always the possibility of.....the typical disclaimer that every bank includes with their SWIFT transfers.

 

   Also good to see Bahtnet was not used for the final leg of the transfer which would have negated international coding...a person would have then needed to then get a Credit Advice to prove the funds came from outside Thailand if needing to prove such.

 

  Although using the TW SWIFT USD-USD method for typical amounts people send (i.e., less than $10K...or probably more like only a couple of thousand dollars) is not going to beat-out the TW regular USD-THB method the difference is not that great and if it ensures "international" transfer coding regardless of the bank sent to then that's a good thing.   

 

   But unless it's simply a PITA and/or really expensive just do a SWIFT transfer "directly from" a person's US bank vs putting TW in as a middleman doing the SWIFT transfer, I'm not sure how many would want to go the TW SWIFT route.

 

   Yea, good test....thanks again for being the point-man in doing the test.