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Health Insurance: Non-Imm O-A


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28 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

"Pacific Cross Insurance is part of Pacific Cross International, a group with operating entities in Hong Kong, the Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia and Cambodia."

 

yeah thats what i thought - kind of blows the whole "thai insurance money grab" conspiracy theory out of the water

 

 

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On 10/31/2019 at 12:01 AM, gk10002000 said:

Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield still required I show 6 month continuous presence in the state before they would issue me a policy

An immigrant to Canada cannot use a Provincial Health Plan until they have lived in the country and in that province for three consecutive months.  So there are similar requirements in various countries.

'nuf sed

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2 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

Multiple reports on facebook thai visa advice groups now saying they have been refused extensions at Jomtien on existing (pre oct31) non-oa's without insurance. //

I saw some of them, yes,

but a bit surprised to not see any on ThaiVisa ??

… or didn't I look at the good thread?

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4 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

non-o is a 90 day visa. how can ask for 1 YEAR insurance for 90 DAY stay?!

 

i mean why stop there? if over 50 may as well ask for insurance for 30 day tourist visa and VOA too :cheesy:

 

Discussing the differences between O and OA.. The OA gets the 1 year entry (hence its higher requirements) the O gets 90 days.. Both have near identical extension requirements bar 1 single issue, insurance. 

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3 hours ago, doctormann said:

No way can I get insurance so unless i can find a work-around - maybe change to a non-O visa - I shall be leaving here in June.  Maybe my wife and family will be sad to see me go and they will certainly miss their meal ticket!

LOL.. Your wife and family isnt worth a single trip overseas to obtain a single entry non imm O ??? 

 

WOW.. 

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2 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

yeah thats what i thought - kind of blows the whole "thai insurance money grab" conspiracy theory out of the water

 

 

Maybe, but consider how long the bombardment of insurance adds on our social media, and where they come from..

 

Also, if it turns out that many people will need insurance for an extension of stay,

i will wager many of them end up lining the pockets of the Thai insurance company execs,

who, for a long time, must have been lobbying the government and poking the hospitals to lie and exaggerate the losses of these farangs that skip bills

 

Remember, its not only the insurance companies that profit, but the bigger companies that "under-write" them,

the hospitals who charge more for farang..

and probably even authorities getting kickbacks..

There are many mouths getting a piece of the pie in the insurance scam,

especially when farangs are the target!

 

 

if you want further proof, consider this..

 

there are millions of Thais getting essentially free healthcare on this 30baht scheme..

so in effect they are "loosing" billions of baht there,

comparing that loss to that of (supposed) farangs running out on bills must be miniscule..

(and Thais on 30baht scheme would not spend as much, and certainly dont bring other currency into Thailand)..

 

so who will be loosing out? with this chasing away of farangs?

 

The Thai authorities are acting like your typical farangs ex-Thai GF with all this.

 

Many a farangs ex GF didnt know how incredibly good and easy they had it with free money and everything else...

until the farang left for good..

 

then there were tears!

Edited by pookondee
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4 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

the wives will gather and kick off for sure and the authorities cannot deport THEM.

 

try telling your wife housekeeping 100K baht short this year - oh my days ????

 

 

I expect they should get a marriage extension unless it is a good excuse to slope off anyhow.

Edited by jacko45k
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On 10/31/2019 at 3:55 PM, Thaidream said:

I would call the La Consulate and ask them if the form with your agents signature will suffice along with the coverage page-

 I sent the L.A. Consulate an email about a week ago to their visa email address asking some basic O-A related questions, and they have yet to respond even now.

 

Sent a similar email to the Wash DC Embassy, and they responded by email within a couple of days.

 

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10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Good point!

That would explain why the health insurance is only required when applying for an OA type Visa.

Previously (before Oct 31), after validity of the original O or OA Visa expired, the requirements for extension of stay of both type Visas were identical.

However if IO now requires health insurance for extensions of stay from an original OA, and does NOT require health insurance for O-type Visa extensions based on retirement, while all other requirements for both permissions to stay are identical, that's rather strange.  If that would indeed be the case (waiting for more real live cases to have it confirmed), for sure OA Visa holders that need to apply for an extension of stay will now consider what road they want to go:

1. Apply for extension of their original OA Visa, and grudgingly pay for the almost worthless thai insurance;

2. KIll their original OA Visa by leaving Thailand without a re-entry permit (or simply letting it expire), and then apply for a Non Imm O Visa based on retirement and then apply for an extension of stay of their new O type Visa (as that does NOT require thai health insurance).

The 3rd option being to return to their home-country, and re-apply for a Non Imm OA Visa and - grudgingly - pay for the health insurance.  That 3rd option would get them the benefit of 2 year IO hassle-free stay in Thailand without the money on thai bank-account requirement.

Note: For those holders of OA Visas or permissions to stay based on original OA Visa, that are over 75 or 80 years of age, only option 2 remains, as they would not be able to qualify for the restrictive thai health insurance.  When in future - as some are predicting - the health insurance requirement would also be imposed on permissions to stay for O-type Visas based on retirement, the only way to stay in Thailand would be to make quarterly border-runs to apply for a new Non Imm O type Visa or go for an Elite Visa.

 

I still hope that the requirement for health insurance on permissions to stay for original OA Visas issued before Oct 31, will be dismissed as a misunderstanding by over-zealous immigration officers, but the first case of someone being denied his permission to stay on the above is already in so it doesn't look good...

 

 

 

 

Someone has already been denied extension of stay for not having Insurance?

 

Can you please share the source/thread you heard this?

 

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19 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I did try a search but came up blank. I saw one post on TV earlier claiming this had happened. My starting point was a Non-Imm-O, but it strikes me as ridiculous that I could be sat next to a guy, who has also been on retirement extensions for 12 plus years, and he needs insurance this year for the first time, and I do not!

 

  You've got to be kidding.  If you literally google search the exact words that GeorgeCross posted "facebook thai visa advice", it's the first hit on the Google.  

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2 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Someone has already been denied extension of stay for not having Insurance?

 

Can you please share the source/thread you heard this?

 

 

  Two instances posted in this thread alone of people being told they needed insurance to complete the extension.

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4 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Someone has already been denied extension of stay for not having Insurance?

Can you please share the source/thread you heard this?

> Post #71 by domdom - French guy in Jomtien denied permission to stay because of no health insurance

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13 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  You've got to be kidding.  If you literally google search the exact words that GeorgeCross posted "facebook thai visa advice", it's the first hit on the Google.  

I searched within facebook (as he suggested). Google would only tell me about Amazon books on the subject!

I just did a Google and the one group it listed outside of this forum does have a discussion, ploughing through it now.

Edited by jacko45k
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5 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

My two cents worth after 14 years of O-A visas obtained at Washington, New York and Los Angeles

 

This fiasco will turn out just like the Notarial requirement which only applies to Los Angeles and Chicago, every Consular Department in the US will come up with their own take on the rule,  The only constant with Thai Immigration is that there is no constant

 

And finally, if the place you apply for an O-A Visa is too strict, try another one, one thing I have learned is that the supposed jurisdictional residency  requirements went out the  window when the consular officials realized that this was effecting their rice bowls . Money talks to Thais, even out of Thailand 

 

Some of the practical/logistical details of the insurance stuff would seem to be problematic for those actually living in the U.S. prior to their O-A application.

 

--For those with foreign insurance, who are they going to find who's going to be willing to sign the "foreign insurance certificate" as required by the govt?

 

--For those with presumably new Thai policies, the Embassy and Consulates via their web pages appear to be requiring ORIGINAL policy documents, not copies or emailed versions of the policy itself. So at a minimum, it would require the insurer express mailing the policy docs to the U.S., adding both expense and some potential time delays for applicants.

 

For example, a Pacific Cross rep told me the other day that they're going to plan on emailing O-A insurance certificates to policyholders in need of them. And when I asked why email, the rep responded that a lot of the new policyholders won't necessarily be in Thailand. Except, at least per their websites, that's not going to be sufficient to satisfy the Embassy and Consulates.

 

 

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Reminder on posts about persons denied:

 

- Post #71:

19 hours ago, domdom said:

Yesterday a french guy made his extension of stay in Jomtien (some years ago he had a OA visa he extended).. Came back as told today to get his passport back..

This morning they told him his extension won t be made unless he has a thai health insurance (he has a french one covering 100%)..

Otherwise they told him to change for O visa..

So, it appears both different officers who told me last week we were non concerned if already on extension of stay, told BS

Have a nice evening

 

- Post #112:

13 hours ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

I think the OA visa is now effectively dead.

 

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14 hours ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

 

I think the OA visa is now effectively dead.

 

What Immigration Office was involved in that?  When did it happen?

 

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18 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Discussing the differences between O and OA.. The OA gets the 1 year entry (hence its higher requirements) the O gets 90 days.. Both have near identical extension requirements bar 1 single issue, insurance. 

A)

The person with the O when extending it 1 year needs at least 800k in a thai bank and "can never go below 400k". No insurance needed,but 400k in a Thai bank.

B)

The guy with the O-A when applying at home shows the money, at least 800k he's got in a bank back home, but then he can spend his money from day one (if he wants to of course). He's got "no money in a thai bank". Insurance covering minimum of 400k needed. 

 

Do you understand what I'm getting at? 

 

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18 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Reminder on posts about persons denied:

 

- Post #71:

 

- Post #112:

 

- Post #112:

  14 hours ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

I think the OA visa is now effectively

dea

18 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Reminder on posts about persons denied:

 

- Post #71:

 

- Post #112:

 

 

Edited by pookondee
posting boxes messed up
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38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

LOL.. Your wife and family isnt worth a single trip overseas to obtain a single entry non imm O ??? 

 

WOW.. 

Why a trip overseas? Savannaket or Vientiane (or somewhere else) works fine. It's like a short vacation.

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15 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

I have just done a visa run on my O-A and was stamped back for another 12 months, no insurance necessary. I think it only applies to O-A visas issued after 31 st Oct 2019.

 

There's a big difference between:

 

a. getting stamped in at the airport for a new entry with a pre Oct. 31 O-A visa....

 

vs.

 

b. going to Immigration with a prior, pre Oct. 31 O-A visa and seeking a new extension of stay that's being applied for after Oct. 31.

 

Immigration could very well not be enforcing the insurance requirement in example A, but then enforce it in example B. 

 

And of course, the person who now has a pre-Oct. 31 O-A visa will get captured by the insurance requirement if they try to apply for a new O-A in the future.

 

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
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5 minutes ago, pookondee said:

- Post #112:

  14 hours ago, rickudon said:

Heads up for those of you who originally entered Thailand on an OA and then got an annual extension - have a friend who was forced to take out the Thai 400,000 baht insurance to get his extension - even though he has been on extensions for 9 years. It was either that or leave the country and start again.

May have just been a rogue IO WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES but maybe not ....

I think the OA visa is now effectively

dea

Really? 

If the guy had to pay 400,000 baht for health insurance why wouldnt he just get elite visa?

The coverage is 400k, not the cost. 

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On 10/31/2019 at 10:55 AM, Sheryl said:

OP: before resorting to this I would (1) see if Kaiser would sign the insurance certificate with other signatories and enter their actual titles below. I do not think the "Director" part has to be taken literally. (2) If not, see if you can get them to issue a letter that follows the certificate wording as much as possible. Then see if the Consulate will accept it. As for the "policy" I would start with just the policy certificate which is usually a single page

 

Sheryl,

 

I am not sure this is going to work. For any signature to be legally binding when dealing with a corporation, the person who signs must have legal authority to bind the company to a contract. That's what being an officer of a company means. Anyone who signs without this agency, could actually be opening themselves up to personal liability and criminal prosecution. Nobody with a lick of sense would do it. In short, you are going to need a corporate officer of Kaiser to sign the document, or else some other representative that has specifically been given authorization to bind the company by an act of the corporation's board of directors.  However you look at it, the board of directors needs to get involved in this.

 

It would actually be just as appropriate to recommend he sign it himself and see if the consulate will accept it. Both would technically bind Kaiser similarly under law...namely, the signature would be meaningless and only the terms of his policy would be used. Of course, if he self signs he wouldn't have anyone to initiate legal action against if Kaiser eventually refused to pay a bill. As a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I have had some experience in this area...possibly just enough to get me into trouble. But I really wouldn't recommend this course of action. I don't see any advantage to it.

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1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

A)

The person with the O when extending it 1 year needs at least 800k in a thai bank and "can never go below 400k". No insurance needed,but 400k in a Thai bank.

B)

The guy with the O-A when applying at home shows the money, at least 800k he's got in a bank back home, but then he can spend his money from day one (if he wants to of course). He's got "no money in a thai bank". Insurance covering minimum of 400k needed. 

 

Do you understand what I'm getting at? 

 

I know you werent talking to me, but

It also depends IF he can get long term cover for a stay in Thailand.

Many western companies just flat-out refuse to honour claims from places like Thailand. 

 

For me, id sooner keep money in Thai bank (knowing i can eventually spend all) instead of giving xxxbaht to insurance companies for BS policy.

 

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