Kaoboi Bebobp Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Two foreign doctors with Child Protection Unit examined the body this morning but made no comments afterward. Medical and crime scene officials examine body --From Khmer Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metempsychotic Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, jany123 said: The fact? That’s total rubbish... especially paragraph 2.... insulting rubbish at that. my partner wont go down to the local kebab place after dark, because of the number of bars in the immediate area, and the corresponding number of folk who may cause her harm or instigate foul play. That’s her choice, not mine. It works against me as I have to go, but I respect her decision, which she claims to be based on safety... ie, not being alone in a potentially dangerous place. Risk minimization is of significant import, and risk minimization is what most of those you criticize would be inferring. insulting is it? well then. i am 100 percent in favor of your significant other making her own choices regarding her own safety, she would be the one to know what threatens her and what doesn't. i have also said nothing about the validity of minimizing risk. I have simply pointed out that a woman need not lead a sequestered life should she chose to travel or see the world. that to take one instance like this however, and hold it up as a blanket rationalization for why women should not travel alone is both reductive and an insult (to use your term) to independent women. sorry you were unable to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, atyclb said: a competent post mortem exam is the way to ascertain what happened or what did not happen I just learned they are bringing in the Child Protection Unit, an NGO group that includes Western forensic staff down to assist.Usually they work child abuse cases. Obviously she was not a child but this group has the closest thing to the needed expertise in country so good they are going down. https://www.cambodianchildrensfund.org/program/child-protection-unit-cpu/ I must say that the Cambodian authorities seem to have done as well as they could with this. Top priority given, ample people deployed, high level involvement and they really got the word out to everyone including the offshore fishing vessels which is how she was eventually found. Small comfort, I know, given the tragic outcome, but they should get credit for the importance and effort they accorded to this matter. Would not have been the case in a lot of places. I certainly know first hand of cases where it was not, here in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jany123 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, metempsychotic said: I have simply pointed out that a woman need not lead a sequestered life should she chose to travel or see the world. No... you did not simply point this out... you claimed; 2 hours ago, metempsychotic said: Thank you, the fact is some believe that women should stay home and those who don't are somehow liable for any accident or foul play they encounter. These AR generally the same people who believe rape victims brought it on themselves. That you then go on to talk about one instance as if a litmus test is more claptrap.... whilst not reported today, these instances happen all over the world on a regular basis, most commonly to unaccompanied females, which, while lamentable, fails to surprise. That it fails to surprise, tells its own story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoboi Bebobp Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, Sheryl said: I just learned they are bringing in the Child Protection Unit, an NGO group that includes Western forensic staff down to assist.Usually they work child abuse cases. Obviously she was not a child but this group has the closest thing to the needed expertise in country so good they are going down. https://www.cambodianchildrensfund.org/program/child-protection-unit-cpu/ I must say that the Cambodian authorities seem to have done as well as they could with this. Top priority given, ample people deployed, high level involvement and they really got the word out to everyone including the offshore fishing vessels which is how she was eventually found. Small comfort, I know, given the tragic outcome, but they should get credit for the importance and effort they accorded to this matter. Would not have been the case in a lot of places. I certainly know first hand of cases where it was not, here in Thailand. See my post No. 31 above. They have allegedly already inspected the body, leaving without comment. I imagine they must first inform the parents and siblings what they may have discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metempsychotic Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, jany123 said: No... you did not simply point this out... you claimed; That you then go on to talk about one instance as if a litmus test is more claptrap.... whilst not reported today, these instances happen all over the world on a regular basis, most commonly to unaccompanied females, which, while lamentable, fails to surprise. That it fails to surprise, tells its own story. oh, i see you are determined to be right then. ok, you are right, women shouldn't leave the house alone, ever, its too dangerous for them. there, you win, feel better? as an aside, i was agreeing with a post by cheryl, why have you not chosen to take exception to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Sheryl said: 3 hours ago, atyclb said: a competent post mortem exam is the way to ascertain what happened or what did not happen I just learned they are bringing in the Child Protection Unit, an NGO group that includes Western forensic staff down to assist.Usually they work child abuse cases. Obviously she was not a child but this group has the closest thing to the needed expertise in country so good they are going down. https://www.cambodianchildrensfund.org/program/child-protection-unit-cpu/ I must say that the Cambodian authorities seem to have done as well as they could with this. Top priority given, ample people deployed, high level involvement and they really got the word out to everyone including the offshore fishing vessels which is how she was eventually found. Small comfort, I know, given the tragic outcome, but they should get credit for the importance and effort they accorded to this matter. Would not have been the case in a lot of places. I certainly know first hand of cases where it was not, here in Thailand. likely most if not all forensic pathologists primary training is adult with some kids then may pursue pediatric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jany123 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, metempsychotic said: oh, i see you are determined to be right then. ok, you are right, women shouldn't leave the house alone, ever, its too dangerous for them. there, you win, feel better? as an aside, i was agreeing with a post by cheryl, why have you not chosen to take exception to that? Why should I feel better by a misrepresentation of my beliefs.... shouldn’t leave home alone... that’s silly and is not reflective of what I have said. i did not respond (take exception too) to Sheryl because she did not claim anything as inflammatory as your post about men believing that the victim was to be blamed for being raped.... that’s the insulting bit that I referenced earlier.... and.... 2 hours ago, metempsychotic said: sorry you were unable to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 some media outlets r reporting that after combing cctv father believes she was abducted https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7621533/Missing-Amelia-Bambridge-21-likely-drowned-Cambodian-official-claims.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabhand Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, atyclb said: some media outlets r reporting that after combing cctv father believes she was abducted https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7621533/Missing-Amelia-Bambridge-21-likely-drowned-Cambodian-official-claims.html That is a article dated 28th October. So seems to be old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 The body has been reported being found 60 miles away from the island and towards the Thai border or north-west of the island. The northeast monsoon kicks in around now; October being broadly the 'second inter monsoon' period with flat currents (towards the shore) but I think that the prevailing, near-shore sea surface currents along this coastline are still mainly south-easterly, away from the Thai border. Maybe someone with diving experience around these Cambodian islands can advise better? I understand that the Cambodian diving season kicks off around this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Sheryl said: Not sure what sort of thing you would consider "evidence". I work in the health sector here and have for over 25 years, since the very start of rebuilding the health system through today. Believe me, I know. https://english.cambodiadaily.com/news/dearth-of-forensics-makes-justice-evasive-3-112581/ The documentation Center of Cambodia (researching into deaths under Pol Pot) has always had to bring in foreign forensics specialists since there is not a single one in Cambodia. The medical school does not teach it. Even basic non-forensic pathology is largely lacking. Local doctors and hospitals send specimens needing path exam abroad. If I would be a believer I would go to church ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pique Dard Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 so sad! i don't accuse anybody, but i know there is a lot of booze and drugs around in those beach parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 anyone believe it's accidental drowning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said: anyone believe it's accidental drowning? To date, there's no real evidence that it wasn't. Hopefully, a post mortem will be carried out in the UK, which may shed more light on it. But then again it may not. Terrible for the family who can't really start the grieving process until the truth is known, which may never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my friend I Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 How about we close this thread before it goes further downwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 50 minutes ago, my friend I said: How about we close this thread before it goes further downwards Only some speculation so far and nobody has posted anything that could upset anyone. Always tread a fine line just in case friends or relatives have signed up or are made aware of these discussions. The local authorities appear to have done some sort of autopsy that for them confirms accidental drowning. However, there will be a UK coroners autopsy and report once her body returns to the UK. Her body has been released for the sad final journey home. RIP Assuming her body was recovered clothed and there was water in the lungs, then it is possible that while under the influence of alcohol, she waded into the sea, possibly lost her balance, head went under and unable to shout, panic prevailed. The following from Royal Life Saving in Australia (my emphasis) People drown while intoxicated and involved in every type of aquatic activity. Alcohol produces a range of physical changes in the body including: Inner Ear – Fluid in the ear is responsible for balance. Alcohol and a sudden change in temperature, such as when entering the water, can lead to disorientation Hypothermia – In cold situations, the body will attempt to draw blood away from the limbs and to the vital organs to prevent heat loss. Alcohol, however, prevents this and therefore increases the chance of hypothermia Spasm of the Vocal Chords – Water in the windpipe triggers a reflex closure of the windpipe. Alcohol increases the chance that a spasm of the vocal chords will occur, snapping the airway shut and locking the airway closed https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/families/out-and-about/medical/alcohol-and-water-safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaanbiker Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 22 hours ago, smedly said: are you saying that is what happened ? I am discounting nothing but I am up for a proper investigation which in SEA I will always question if you trust authorities in Thailand or Cambodia then that is entirely up to you...……………..I don't I agree with you. These investigations here can't be trusted. RIP, young girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 There were credible expat experts involved in the exam. Of course, we have not heard from them what they found/concluded, only the authorities' conclusion. But I believe they will have directly briefed the family. In the end it is up to the family-- and they have much more info than we do -- to decide if they are satisfied. As they plan on bringing the body back to the UK there will also automatically be a UK coroner investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harriott456 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 9:32 AM, Sheryl said: Why do people keep saying this? What possible scenario is there whereby what happened to her could not have happened had she been travelling with others? In fact, by all accounts she befriended other backpackers and stayed very much with the group... which is how backpackers usually travel. But of course, at a party, people disperse a bit, people go off to the bathroom alone, etc. As they would even if travelling as part of a family or a couple. This idea that somehow what caused her death was the fact that she was a solo traveler is nonsense. It is not like she went off alone to a deserted spot. She walked in a large group to a public event. You're right, its an automatic stereotypical comment posted by people that really have no idea or experience. i would hazard a guess this girl had been drinking decided to take a swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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