trying to buy a condo under 1000000

[Lacrimas]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

    I doubt renting one condo on Airbnb is 'extremely profitable' after you deduct the monthly condo fee, the monthly water fee, the monthly electric fee, the monthly internet fee, the laundry fee, the maid fee, the Airbnb fee, the breakage and resupply fee, and the fee to pay someone to check in and out the illegal renters.  It likely can be profitable if you have 30 or 40 condos you are renting and can utilize economies of scale.  

You can rent a condo at 1000 baht for one night, if you rent it 20 nights a month you make 20.000 baht. Condo fee is maybe 500 baht. Water, Electric and Internet can be 2000 baht. Laundry and Maid fee are not included and the customer pays for them. All the other costs are very low. So out of 20.000 baht you can make 15.000 baht clean which is better than just renting it out for 8.000 baht.

[moontang]

18 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

You can rent a condo at 1000 baht for one night, if you rent it 20 nights a month you make 20.000 baht. Condo fee is maybe 500 baht. Water, Electric and Internet can be 2000 baht. Laundry and Maid fee are not included and the customer pays for them. All the other costs are very low. So out of 20.000 baht you can make 15.000 baht clean which is better than just renting it out for 8.000 baht.

20 move ins and 20 exits.. That is real work, and money...and a studio condo not on the beach is more like 4 or 500 per night, although some seem so Hell bent on using airbnb, they overlook some nice hotels in better locations with 24 hour services.  Not sure how the guest friendly thing fits into the equation.. Just like the Grab touts.. Often standing there waiting, with plenty of cheaper meter taxis around. 

[newnative]

42 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

You can rent a condo at 1000 baht for one night, if you rent it 20 nights a month you make 20.000 baht. Condo fee is maybe 500 baht. Water, Electric and Internet can be 2000 baht. Laundry and Maid fee are not included and the customer pays for them. All the other costs are very low. So out of 20.000 baht you can make 15.000 baht clean which is better than just renting it out for 8.000 baht.

So, you're maybe making 7500 baht more a month after deducting the 500 baht condo fee both rentals have.  Not sure I'd call that 'extremely profitable' with just one rental.  And, of course, illegal in Thailand.  

[madmen]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

With daily Airbnb rentals the owner pays the electric, water, cleaning, laundry, internet, condo fees, Airbnb fee,  and so

Yes but the price is adjusted accordingly. Obviously its more nightly and really how much electricity will be used considering tourists are out and about but the reality is most airbnb bookings are at least 7 days when all the expenses fall back on the customer.

 

Nightly really is still the domain of hotels , Who needs the hassle of driving around with a lost cabby searching for some obscure condo in the middle of the night just for 1 night? not me, I want fast check in an easily located hotel

[parafareno]

i was also quoted 13000 bht maintenance fee per year for my condo......seems quite a lot.....

is that normal price?

[moontang]

56 minutes ago, parafareno said:

i was also quoted 13000 bht maintenance fee per year for my condo......seems quite a lot.....

is that normal price?

A lot less than the West..  that is on the upper end, I would have no problems with it, but would raise my expectations a bit. Hallways should be clean and neat, same with trash area.. now that is something that can vary a lot.. How they store the stinking garbage.  Probably should have a decent pool, too.  How many square meters is it?  I pay 10,000 for 31 sm.. Nice folks, really.  Still using an old dot matrix printer.. 

 

Our water is 17 per unit, but there is a 25 THB per month billing fee. Can be as high as 40 per unit, I have been told. 

[parafareno]

it is 46 sq m with huge pool yes

[moontang]

36 minutes ago, parafareno said:

it is 46 sq m with huge pool yes

Reasonable.. How much for water?  Any TV channels?  I was paying 30 psm pm in CM, no pool. 

[parafareno]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Reasonable.. How much for water?  Any TV channels?  I was paying 30 psm pm in CM, no pool. 

i dont need tv channels, i download all the <deleted> i need.....

 

so how to do transfer from abroad for condo? can my mother do it to my bank account?

can it be any country in the world?

Can it be western union? Or only bank transfer?

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, parafareno said:

i dont need tv channels, i download all the <deleted> i need.....

 

so how to do transfer from abroad for condo? can my mother do it to my bank account?

can it be any country in the world?

Can it be western union? Or only bank transfer?

very important point this, don't rush into it. It needs to settle as an International payment in order to be Foreign quota. I think it has to come from you although someone else on here can confirm

[Peterw42]

11 hours ago, parafareno said:

so it is 2% but you do 50 50 with owner?

Depends on what is agreed to upfront, often 50/50 but can also be buyer pays or seller pays, whatever is agreed to in the sales contract.

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, parafareno said:

i dont need tv channels, i download all the <deleted> i need.....

 

so how to do transfer from abroad for condo? can my mother do it to my bank account?

can it be any country in the world?

Can it be western union? Or only bank transfer?

The money needs to come from outside Thailand and be changed into Thai Baht in Thailand, and into your account. Land office will want document from the bank to show this.

Western union etc often change the money outside Thailand and cannot provide document to take to the land office. 

[Leaver]

22 hours ago, VYCM said:

Just so happens the newly completed Arcadia Beach Resort project has a majority Chinese ownership.

Ok.  Just saw some photos on a hotel booking website.

 

If used as a hotel, it will further enhance "the zero baht tourism" of the Chinese here.  So, after the initial land sale, and construction costs, for the next X amount of years, all profits go back to Chinese.

 

If sold off as small condo's, to Chinese, it's possible it may be used in the same way as The Base, which is like hotel rooms, advertised on AirBnB, and the like.  Once again, money going to China, and more "zero baht tourism" from the Chinese. 

 

How long before the majority of Chinese tourists stay in Chinese owned hotels and / or condo's, and we see mainstream hotels go broke?

 

 

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, newnative said:

    The Chinese already are--remember my last 5 condo sales were to Chinese--at price points from 3.25MB to 10.5MB.  If you've been to a northern China city in winter, you'll understand why they want an escape from the smoggy, dreary, damp, cold, depressing winter days.  The recent, prolonged unrest in Hong Kong is likely bringing about some condo sales in Thailand.  Mainland China and Hong Kong find Thailand condo prices reasonable.  

    I don't know what will happen with the Indians and I make no predictions regarding the property market here.  I do think the EEC and all the recent building activity--Terminal 21, Central Marina revamp, Amari hotel additions, Ozo Hotel, Centre Point 1 and 2,  Mitt Hotel, Brighton, and all the many upgrades being done everywhere are positive signs.  

See Post #223.

 

I will also add, it's possible the Chinese could keep the condo market buoyant here, but possibly to the detriment of hotel establishments. 

 

They could buy cheap condo's for investment, renting them illegally to short holiday tourists.   I mentioned this in my other post, just look at The Base.  Every day hundreds of Chinese check in, and hundreds check out.  All the while, there are signs saying it's illegal to stay less than 30 days. 

 

It almost seems like this is sanctioned for them.  You can't buy a hotel room, but you can buy a hotel room that has a tap and a sink in a corner, and then it can be called a condo, and sold to individuals. 

 

So, my question is, are the Chinese buying "condo's" to reside in, or are they buying "hotel rooms" to rent to their fellow countrymen, through Chinese websites, for short term holiday tourists?

 

Of course, the developer gets to sell the condo's regardless, so doesn't care, but for sure the hotels here would be concerned.

 

There is a reason the 30 day law is not being enforced, and I have a feeling it's to appease property developers, and possibly small Thai property investors.  

 

To the OP, due diligence should be done to ensure you are not simply buying a hotel room in a block catering for Chinese tourists, under the disguise it's a condo for residential living.

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

People always fail to mention, investments can go down in value as well as up, but on this forum everyone thinks they are Soros

Sure, but I own 100% of my share portfolio, and I can liquidate it completely, or part of it, with a phone call.  Not to mention, I send move any profits to where ever I want.

 

The same can't be said about condo's in Thailand. 

[newnative]

19 hours ago, parafareno said:

i was also quoted 13000 bht maintenance fee per year for my condo......seems quite a lot.....

is that normal price?

     That is quite inexpensive.  Many of the new or newer condo projects are charging  35 or 40 baht a sqm or more.  Some are at 50 baht.  At 40 baht a sqm, with a 46sqm condo, your monthly maintenance fee would be 1,840 baht and yearly would be 22,080 baht.  Still, extremely cheap compared to condo fees in the West.  

[scubascuba3]

26 minutes ago, newnative said:

     That is quite inexpensive.  Many of the new or newer condo projects are charging  35 or 40 baht a sqm or more.  Some are at 50 baht.  At 40 baht a sqm, with a 46sqm condo, your monthly maintenance fee would be 1,840 baht and yearly would be 22,080 baht.  Still, extremely cheap compared to condo fees in the West.  

Looking at the condo in question which is mostly thai owned it looks like it needs painting. Every owner doing something different with the balcony, who know if maintenance gets paid, something worth checking

[newnative]

8 hours ago, Leaver said:

See Post #223.

 

I will also add, it's possible the Chinese could keep the condo market buoyant here, but possibly to the detriment of hotel establishments. 

 

They could buy cheap condo's for investment, renting them illegally to short holiday tourists.   I mentioned this in my other post, just look at The Base.  Every day hundreds of Chinese check in, and hundreds check out.  All the while, there are signs saying it's illegal to stay less than 30 days. 

 

It almost seems like this is sanctioned for them.  You can't buy a hotel room, but you can buy a hotel room that has a tap and a sink in a corner, and then it can be called a condo, and sold to individuals. 

 

So, my question is, are the Chinese buying "condo's" to reside in, or are they buying "hotel rooms" to rent to their fellow countrymen, through Chinese websites, for short term holiday tourists?

 

Of course, the developer gets to sell the condo's regardless, so doesn't care, but for sure the hotels here would be concerned.

 

There is a reason the 30 day law is not being enforced, and I have a feeling it's to appease property developers, and possibly small Thai property investors.  

 

To the OP, due diligence should be done to ensure you are not simply buying a hotel room in a block catering for Chinese tourists, under the disguise it's a condo for residential living.

   Some are buying for investment and some are buying to use for themselves.  My Chinese next-door neighbors paid 12MB for their condo and just use it part-time--and don't rent it out when they aren't using it. Likely don't need the money.  I think buyers of just a single condo are more likely to use it for themselves.

   Many of the new, large projects are becoming instant hotels because, being new, buyers can buy 30 or 40 condos and set up an illegal hotel within the condo--at a cheaper price than buying land and building a 30 or 40 room hotel themselves, with none of the licensing, taxes, and so on to deal with. 

    I'd like to see developers make buyers of multiple units sign a form acknowledging that they understand and have been informed in writing that rentals of less than 30 days are illegal in Thailand, they will abide by Thai law, and they have been made aware that the condo project will not tolerate illegal rentals.  Of course, they likely will still do the illegal rentals but if the condo project switches to fingerprint or facial recognition technology or other methods to stem the illegal rentals they can't complain that they had no idea the rentals were illegal and would not be tolerated.  

    If I was buying a condo to live in--and especially year-round--I wouldn't even consider one of these large, new projects; I simply don't want to live in a hotel with a hotel atmosphere and all the hotel problems.  Having learned some lessons, I would look for an older, smaller project with most of the units already sold and a healthy mix of owner-residents and long-term renters.  

    

    

[moontang]

I was in one the other day, and they said no sales to companies, except the commercial spaces in the lobby. 

[balo]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

At 40 baht a sqm, with a 46sqm condo, your monthly maintenance fee would be 1,840 baht and yearly would be 22,080 baht. 

Sounds expensive to me, I only paid 7000 baht in maintenance fees yearly for a 34 sqm 1 br condo (Paradise Park) built in 2013.  

[beautifulthailand99]

On 11/10/2019 at 9:22 AM, moontang said:

If the market was as bad as many say, there would be many good deals, but there simply aren't.  And been hearing about no balcony lights on for 10 years+... It is just not customary to use them here.  I use mine, but got one of those Sampran led bug lights.  You are still tied to your lease... but that may simply include forfeiture of your deposit... but extensions and TM30 and 90 day reports make it tough on gypsies.  With no escrow companies here or account services, not sure owner financing would be wise, but have gone that route in the West.. A foreigner is not likely to be able to carry a mortgage, and that is where I would be looking for a discount.  I have listed a few here, and was approached by several Thais thinking I had to leave and would sell cheap... just asking for proof of funds weeds out most of them. Many just want to be a middleman.. just like those we buy ugly house people in the West. 

But there are on a need to sell basis and these maybe often posted up on the condo/supermarket noticeboards as a last resort. I am seeing some new properties come on the block I have targeted after remaining constant in numbers for the last 3 months. The new listings seem to be much more 'reasonable' than I want a profit/mate A got X 2 years ago/ especially when the units are more than a studio. Especially so if the farang needs the cash for visa renewal and realizes that cashing out even at bargain prices and renting is the way to go. This high season will be the first to really test the market particularly in the Pattaya/Jomtien area which I would have though has much more struggling farangs than say Bangkok/Hua Hin. Keep vigilant by doing the rounds of your target condos on a regular basis and don't get too hung up on one place but try and get that elusive bargain by being ready to pounce when the right property/buyer pops up. Keep reminding yourself you are in no hurry - the market is going nowhere in the short/medium term except most probably down.

[beautifulthailand99]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:58 AM, Leaver said:

Are you suggesting the Chinese and Indians will buy condo's here, as an investment, to rent to their fellow countrymen, on AirBnB and the the like?

 

Or, are you suggesting the Chinese and Indians will buy condo's here, with a view to holidaying here regularly?

 

Or, are you suggesting the Chinese and Indians will buy condo's here, with a view to living in them upon their retirement?

 

I know the Chinese are renting condo's, for a cheap rate, on long leases, and then renting them out for short stay visitors, at a higher per night rate, and keeping the difference.  This is reasonably risk free, and they can rent many condo's, which not a big outlay, so why would they buy for the same purpose?

They are (Chinese) - in the block we have a studio one bought five units from a long term farang owner who had a portfolio he is looking to liquidate and get out of the market. The in-house agent who is a mate of the missus is doing quite a few deals in the second hand market - but hey want blood. To a cashed up Chinese investor they are cheap as chips and a much safer bet than there own country. 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 11/11/2019 at 11:44 AM, newnative said:

   I CAN answer this question and, with the Chinese, the answer is they are buying for investment and they are also buying to live in.   My last 5 condo sales have been to Chinese.  One of the sales was, I think, for investment and the other 4 buyers planned to live in the condos, either full or part-time with holiday and other visits.  Two of the condos were 2 bedroom/2 bath, one was a Bangkok studio, and the other 2 were 1 bedrooms.  Prices ranged from 3.25MB to 10.5MB.

    Next door to me is an older, retired Chinese couple who bought their condo (not from me) and visit part-time, mostly in the winter months.  When I lived at another condo project there was an extended Chinese family that had bought 3 condos side-by-side at the pool level.  Grandparents, parents, and kids visited several times a year.  I thought they might rent out the units when they weren't there but I never saw them rented out.

     I don't have any experience selling to Indians and I don't know what will happen with that large population but it wouldn't surprise me if they have started buying condos in Thailand--which is not too far away. They are certainly coming in large numbers and that could result in some sales at some point.

    One thing to consider is the mindset that considers Pattaya 'dead' because the local farang watering hole once popular with westerners is now mostly empty.  My favorite bar is empty=Pattaya is dead=the property market must also be dead.  In reality, Pattaya is doing quite well with a different tourist demographic.  In my personal experience, my condo sales in my first years here were mostly to westerners, Thais, and Russians.  In addition to my last 5 sales being to Chinese, I also had a sale to a Singaporean.  So, my recent condo sales are somewhat reflecting the changing tourist demographic.  

So true the market may be bottoming out with some real bargains to be had. That said I have no anecdotals about Indians coming into the sale market in a way that the Chinese obviously are. 

[moontang]

I am looking at a dead persons house...330 wah, 100 sm house...nat gas, newish roof.  7000 feet elevation.  About 1.5 million THB, but it is in a potato and cattle region of Colorado.  Might be ideal for splitting the year with BKK.

[fhickson]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

I am looking at a dead persons house...330 wah, 100 sm house...nat gas, newish roof.  7000 feet elevation.  About 1.5 million THB, but it is in a potato and cattle region of Colorado.  Might be ideal for splitting the year with BKK.

its always good to have some sort of fallback residence in your home country, no matter how cheap or small.

 

makes all the difference to me knowing i have somewhrre to run should things turn sour here. lots of things  health, legal  financial can go wrong in a country where you have no citizenship.

[madmen]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:11 AM, Leaver said:

Sure, but I own 100% of my share portfolio, and I can liquidate it completely, or part of it, with a phone call.  Not to mention, I send move any profits to where ever I want.

 

The same can't be said about condo's in Thailand. 

So mr Buffet your portfolio only goes up never down? All stock market gurus are living the high life in Thailand if you believe all the gun trader posts lol why not Manoca ?

 

What happens when your stock <deleted>ts itslef ? you sell at a big loss or wait praying it doesn't fall further and sell through panic at a much much bigger loss?

 

 

[fhickson]

7 hours ago, madmen said:

So mr Buffet your portfolio only goes up never down? All stock market gurus are living the high life in Thailand if you believe all the gun trader posts lol why not Manoca ?

 

What happens when your stock <deleted>ts itslef ? you sell at a big loss or wait praying it doesn't fall further and sell through panic at a much much bigger loss?

 

 

a portfolio is at least under personal control. it can be held or sold immediately.

 

a condo you may not be able to sell. it relys on a willing buyer which is not under your control.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:50 PM, thaitero said:

No bubbles in Pattaya..
EEC will bring jobs, money and investments, Expansion of UTP and high speed train station will bring more people of all sorts also,,,

Hi speed rail will allow Bkk residents to move out of that hell hole to Pattaya and still work in Bkk.

Only problem is will the hi speed rail ever get built?

[moontang]

10 hours ago, fhickson said:

a portfolio is at least under personal control. it can be held or sold immediately.

 

a condo you may not be able to sell. it relys on a willing buyer which is not under your control.

I have never seen a stock that didn't require a willing buyer, too. 

[ThomasThBKK]

33 minutes ago, moontang said:

I have never seen a stock that didn't require a willing buyer, too. 

Stocks are liquid enough even when it crashes... RE is called an illiquid asset for a reason...