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'Thatcherism on steroids' - Corbyn says of Johnson's Brexit plans


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2 hours ago, WillyPlatt said:

You ok?

I am beginning to worry about your sanity.

Peter Reid might be a legend in his own lunchtime but he certainly isn't a legend to me.

Before your last can of seven eleven chang hits the deck, let me try and explain how it works.

No one, least me, is suggesting that Johnson et all are whiter than white. They are not. However, they expouse free market economics and a lower tax economy that i agree with.

As someone with a reasonable amount of assets, i would prefer not be taxed unduly on them. I would also prefer a strong pound, not least for the long periods i spend in Thailand.

Unfortunately, Corbin and McDonnell would pose a serious threat to these 2 objectives.

You see, perversely, eventually the less well off in society pay the price for a socialist labour government who get their hands on the keys to the Treasury.

For the record, i have no interest in football and certainly don't fit the stereotype you portray.

Now retired, my commercial life was as an FMCG agent.

For the avoidance of doubt, care to tell me what you did for a living?

Well you started the ad hominem attacks. And for the record I live most of the year in the UK and spend 3 months in Thailand in our condo with my wife of 16 years so I'm not on 7/11 Chang. And yes I would like the pound to be stronger as it was before this Brexit shambles took over our national dialogue. That said I can afford to be a lot poorer and am quite happy to lose a goodly proportion of my wealth if it helps towards a fairer and more equitable society. Finally, no it's none of your business what I did for a living except to say I lucked out buying a house back in the 80s in what became a gentrified area of London and I downsized 2 years ago acutely conscious the effect Brexit would have on property values - it was a a wise decision. I also made some shrewd investments on various areas that have given me enough wealth and savings to do what I want and retire early. So let's keep any dialogue on topic and not personal and  I bear you no grudges , apologies for the mistaken identity.

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56 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well you started the ad hominem attacks. And for the record I live most of the year in the UK and spend 3 months in Thailand in our condo with my wife of 16 years so I'm not on 7/11 Chang. And yes I would like the pound to be stronger as it was before this Brexit shambles took over our national dialogue. That said I can afford to be a lot poorer and am quite happy to lose a goodly proportion of my wealth if it helps towards a fairer and more equitable society. Finally, no it's none of your business what I did for a living except to say I lucked out buying a house back in the 80s in what became a gentrified area of London and I downsized 2 years ago acutely conscious the effect Brexit would have on property values - it was a a wise decision. I also made some shrewd investments on various areas that have given me enough wealth and savings to do what I want and retire early. So let's keep any dialogue on topic and not personal and  I bear you no grudges , apologies for the mistaken identity.

Looks like you benefited from a free market housing market, free market global stock and bond markets and whatever other free market you maximized your personal wealth from the sale of assets in.

Wasn't a council house you bought originally was it?

I bear you no ill will, but you have made the case better than i could ever do.

Its always easier to lecture about making the world a better place after you have used the ghastly Thatcherite capitalist system to make a shed load.

I hope your post does not go unnoticed on this thread and forum.

Good luck to you and your good wife.

As Don King said "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."

Well done.

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37 minutes ago, WillyPlatt said:

Looks like you benefited from a free market housing market, free market global stock and bond markets and whatever other free market you maximized your personal wealth from the sale of assets in.

Wasn't a council house you bought originally was it?

I bear you no ill will, but you have made the case better than i could ever do.

Its always easier to lecture about making the world a better place after you have used the ghastly Thatcherite capitalist system to make a shed load.

I hope your post does not go unnoticed on this thread and forum.

Good luck to you and your good wife.

As Don King said "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate."

Well done.

No not an ex-council house since you ask. I didn't use the system I was just a) lucky to have great parents who gave me intelligence and love b) and to be born at a time of increasing wealth and prosperity c) get a free place at a northern independent school and to be able to go to university at minimal cost  d)and to be able to buy in London when it was affordable on a modest income. These things which are pretty much denied to young folk now, and if I was young I would see a socialist Labour party as a much better personal bet than free market Tories which has given them unaffordable housing, pensions virtually our of reach and a more unequal society and distribution of wealth the like of which I have never seen in my lifetime. I am happy with no children to support their ambitions and dreams now. 

 

Thatcher not only sold off the stock of social housing which was 'homes for heroes' after WW2 and put the UK property market on steroids (a fruitless and empty creation of wealth) she also championed and initiated from the 'Big Bang' markets 'liberalization'  a continuing finacialisation of our society where the most profitable business became literally making money not making things or providing services which lies at the heart of our increasing unequal society today. Whether I profited from it is neither here there. I got the crumbs off the rich mans table that was/is groaning with unearned  riches. I'm not proud of that. 

 

Anyway I wouldn't worry, it looks like Johnson is on his way to a big majority so there may well be a short-live Boris bounce when the pound gains some traction before the reality check of a society drowning in debt and unaffordable promises catches up with the political dialogue. Coupled with  a world started to literally burn and a global depression coming down the tracks at a frightening speed I would not want to young now.

 

These threads  burn and die quickly - it is a sign that we have too much time to waste in that we bother to obsess and post in this uber-niche echo chamber. And outside of the toxic national debate that is Brexit I hope elsewhere I make a positive and helpful contribution to these boards.  Enough - time to sleep !

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9 hours ago, WillyPlatt said:

You also have to remember that a lot of the new labour contracts are a result of employers not wanting to get sucked into the restrictive terms that full time employees enjoy.

Nothing to do with Thatcher but employers wanting not to get involved with long term issues with staff they cannot get rid of. More a product of well meaning liberal labour laws.

Regarding selling off council houses, the Tories tapped into a desire for people to own their own homes and improve themselves socially and financially by getting on the housing market.

People do not either appreciate or realise the profound effect that Thatcherism had on the UK and abroad.

Blair and Brown were children of Thatcher, so too speak, and continued her free market policies.

I would advise people to watch the recent BBC series about her, to really appreciate she was the greatest peace time Prime Minister the UK has ever seen.

One ma's flexible workforce is another man's zero hours contract. 

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10 hours ago, nauseus said:

Coming from Hull, Lord Two Jags should know better than to say this. I've met hundreds of ex trawler Skippers and crewmen who lost their jobs after the UK joined the EEC - these were the lucky ones who managed to switch to other maritime work. The EEC/EU (CFP) has accounted for a huge decline of the UK fishing industry: jobs, stocks and the marine environment. The Dutch just zap the buggers and the Spanish don't care what they do to get their catches. There is a ridiculous level of waste and unnecessary discarding of edible dead fish.

Most other countries didn't let quota be bought and sold, certainly not to other counties.

 

Our free market loving Tories allowed trawler owners to simply sell the quota to the highest bidder and many of them decided it was easier to do that than bothering to having to employ all those bothersome  trawler Skippers and crewmen.

 

It's a Tory policy that lost those people their jobs not an EU one.

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8 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Thatcher by the sell off of council houses created the hosing crisis that is such a crucial issue today.

Housing crisis well in existence prior to the sale of Council Houses by Thatcher. You might still argue that the sales accentuated the crisis but not originated it. Even that is moot. What messed things up was Thatcher's prevention of local council from using the proceeds from the sales to either create new builds or refurbish existing stock. Instead, Councils were instructed to first of all pay off accumulated debts.

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3 hours ago, tebee said:

Most other countries didn't let quota be bought and sold, certainly not to other counties.

 

Our free market loving Tories allowed trawler owners to simply sell the quota to the highest bidder and many of them decided it was easier to do that than bothering to having to employ all those bothersome  trawler Skippers and crewmen.

 

It's a Tory policy that lost those people their jobs not an EU one.

There weren't any quotas pre EEC. 

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5 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

No not an ex-council house since you ask. I didn't use the system I was just a) lucky to have great parents who gave me intelligence and love b) and to be born at a time of increasing wealth and prosperity c) get a free place at a northern independent school and to be able to go to university at minimal cost  d)and to be able to buy in London when it was affordable on a modest income. These things which are pretty much denied to young folk now, and if I was young I would see a socialist Labour party as a much better personal bet than free market Tories which has given them unaffordable housing, pensions virtually our of reach and a more unequal society and distribution of wealth the like of which I have never seen in my lifetime. I am happy with no children to support their ambitions and dreams now. 

 

Thatcher not only sold off the stock of social housing which was 'homes for heroes' after WW2 and put the UK property market on steroids (a fruitless and empty creation of wealth) she also championed and initiated from the 'Big Bang' markets 'liberalization'  a continuing finacialisation of our society where the most profitable business became literally making money not making things or providing services which lies at the heart of our increasing unequal society today. Whether I profited from it is neither here there. I got the crumbs off the rich mans table that was/is groaning with unearned  riches. I'm not proud of that. 

 

Anyway I wouldn't worry, it looks like Johnson is on his way to a big majority so there may well be a short-live Boris bounce when the pound gains some traction before the reality check of a society drowning in debt and unaffordable promises catches up with the political dialogue. Coupled with  a world started to literally burn and a global depression coming down the tracks at a frightening speed I would not want to young now.

 

These threads  burn and die quickly - it is a sign that we have too much time to waste in that we bother to obsess and post in this uber-niche echo chamber. And outside of the toxic national debate that is Brexit I hope elsewhere I make a positive and helpful contribution to these boards.  Enough - time to sleep !

I have noticed that Brexit threads never die but they are eventually closed by mods. We even had a short memorial service for the passing of the biggest one, which I think was was nearly 1000 pages (good old days). ????

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6 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

No not an ex-council house since you ask. I didn't use the system I was just a) lucky to have great parents who gave me intelligence and love b) and to be born at a time of increasing wealth and prosperity c) get a free place at a northern independent school and to be able to go to university at minimal cost  d)and to be able to buy in London when it was affordable on a modest income. These things which are pretty much denied to young folk now, and if I was young I would see a socialist Labour party as a much better personal bet than free market Tories which has given them unaffordable housing, pensions virtually our of reach and a more unequal society and distribution of wealth the like of which I have never seen in my lifetime. I am happy with no children to support their ambitions and dreams now. 

 

Thatcher not only sold off the stock of social housing which was 'homes for heroes' after WW2 and put the UK property market on steroids (a fruitless and empty creation of wealth) she also championed and initiated from the 'Big Bang' markets 'liberalization'  a continuing finacialisation of our society where the most profitable business became literally making money not making things or providing services which lies at the heart of our increasing unequal society today. Whether I profited from it is neither here there. I got the crumbs off the rich mans table that was/is groaning with unearned  riches. I'm not proud of that. 

 

Anyway I wouldn't worry, it looks like Johnson is on his way to a big majority so there may well be a short-live Boris bounce when the pound gains some traction before the reality check of a society drowning in debt and unaffordable promises catches up with the political dialogue. Coupled with  a world started to literally burn and a global depression coming down the tracks at a frightening speed I would not want to young now.

 

These threads  burn and die quickly - it is a sign that we have too much time to waste in that we bother to obsess and post in this uber-niche echo chamber. And outside of the toxic national debate that is Brexit I hope elsewhere I make a positive and helpful contribution to these boards.  Enough - time to sleep !

No one has a clue how the UK election will turn out. Yes, the Tories will get the most seats but more independents than ever will get into Parliament.

Unfortunately, most pundits expect a hung parliament. In other words, back to log jam.

Sometimes a little democracy is a bad thing. That's why Thatcher's revolution got done, she had the majorities to do it.

Dress it up anyway you want, Parliament will try and stop the will of the people.

That will open up a can of worms that could include race crime and a total disregard for law and order.

This thread is not about Brexit but Thatcherism. You have written eloquently about how lucky you where to end up in the financially secure state you are today.

You seem to miss one of the most important points of Thatcherism. The ability to pass assets and property to the next generation. That's how the ladder works.

Whether it be renationalising utilities or increasing wealth taxes, the Labour government will set out to destroy what Thatcher/Blair/Brown created.

Why you don't understand the hypocrisy in your posts is quite beyond me.

You want to pull the ladder up on the millions behind you.

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2 hours ago, WillyPlatt said:

No one has a clue how the UK election will turn out. Yes, the Tories will get the most seats but more independents than ever will get into Parliament.

Unfortunately, most pundits expect a hung parliament. In other words, back to log jam.

Sometimes a little democracy is a bad thing. That's why Thatcher's revolution got done, she had the majorities to do it.

Dress it up anyway you want, Parliament will try and stop the will of the people.

That will open up a can of worms that could include race crime and a total disregard for law and order.

This thread is not about Brexit but Thatcherism. You have written eloquently about how lucky you where to end up in the financially secure state you are today.

You seem to miss one of the most important points of Thatcherism. The ability to pass assets and property to the next generation. That's how the ladder works.

Whether it be renationalising utilities or increasing wealth taxes, the Labour government will set out to destroy what Thatcher/Blair/Brown created.

Why you don't understand the hypocrisy in your posts is quite beyond me.

You want to pull the ladder up on the millions behind you.

No I want to hand the ladder back , because there is no ladder now now only a waning gulf between the 'boomers' and the rest.  ????

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4 hours ago, nauseus said:

There weren't any quotas pre EEC. 

But that is by an large that it was only in the 70's that we'd started to realize the disastrous environmental effects of overfishing . Improvements in fishing technology that had improved the amount we could catch were being countered by the loss of fish stocks. 

 

Something like the quota system would have been needed anyway or we would have seen more "cod wars"

 

Note that we actually do slightly better out of being part of the EU than just fishing our own waters, due to the catch being allocated by historical reasons.  The combined EU fishing fleets land about 6 million tonnes of fish per year, of which about 700,000 tonnes are from UK waters. The UK's share of the overall EU fishing catch in 2014 was 752,000 tonnes, the second largest catch of any country in the EU.

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On 11/7/2019 at 12:10 PM, transam said:

Scotland voted to stay in the UK union. The SNP, shield beaters, want to take Scotland out of the union.

Now, you really should read up on what is going on in the UK and not read your local rags...????

Boris Johnson heading to Scotland and said  " Only a vote for the Conservatives will stop the SNP's plans to break up the UK."

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1 hour ago, tebee said:

But that is by an large that it was only in the 70's that we'd started to realize the disastrous environmental effects of overfishing . Improvements in fishing technology that had improved the amount we could catch were being countered by the loss of fish stocks. 

 

Something like the quota system would have been needed anyway or we would have seen more "cod wars"

 

Note that we actually do slightly better out of being part of the EU than just fishing our own waters, due to the catch being allocated by historical reasons.  The combined EU fishing fleets land about 6 million tonnes of fish per year, of which about 700,000 tonnes are from UK waters. The UK's share of the overall EU fishing catch in 2014 was 752,000 tonnes, the second largest catch of any country in the EU.

If we weren't constrained by the CFP it would have been a lot more....mutter mutter ????

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33 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Boris Johnson heading to Scotland and said  " Only a vote for the Conservatives will stop the SNP's plans to break up the UK."

Thankfully Scotland hasn't voted for the Tories since 1955 - another one of the reasons more and more are wanting away from this so called union.

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1 hour ago, nauseus said:

If we weren't constrained by the CFP it would have been a lot more....mutter mutter ????

So you are saying if we were on our own we should have continued to wipe out fish stocks ? 

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The Tories will be delighted to be rid of Scotland, and their policies have been aimed at that since Thatcher introduced the poll tax early in Scotland where there were NO tory MPs. Until that day, I would have voted Tory.  No more.  When the Unionists drop the Conservatives, I’ll vote for them again, but never for a party with that contempt for the Scottish electorate.

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1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

Boris Johnson heading to Scotland and said  " Only a vote for the Conservatives will stop the SNP's plans to break up the UK."

That’s admitting defeat and acknowledging the dissolution of the Union without even a vote. The sooner we have a Unionist party independent of the Tories, the more chance of saving our country.

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36 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

The Tories will be delighted to be rid of Scotland, and their policies have been aimed at that since Thatcher introduced the poll tax early in Scotland where there were NO tory MPs. Until that day, I would have voted Tory.  No more.  When the Unionists drop the Conservatives, I’ll vote for them again, but never for a party with that contempt for the Scottish electorate.

that tories would be delighted to get rid of Scotland is badly refelected in Westminster debates

the Scotland "going it alone" idea ain't getting much support in Westminster, Tory or not

 

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On 10/26/2019 at 10:57 AM, sawadee1947 said:

T

 

54 minutes ago, tebee said:

So you are saying if we were on our own we should have continued to wipe out fish stocks ? 

 

not sure where that sawadee1947 thing on the top came from, but I just deleted the content,

TV is full of ideas today

-------

anyway, tebee and the throw up causer:

 

re fish and other submerged species; it is worth noting that Greenland wanted out of EEC/EU because

they wanted a very different management of the submerged food resources

fisheries has also been a very hard nut for Iceland to crack

 

guess things look a bit different re fish when your whole country is absolutely dependent on it

 

 

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5 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

the evidence is on Corbyn's commie anti semitic rants.

But but but..... isn't Corbyn an alleged folllower of Marx and Trotsky? Maybe you would be more credible to accuse Corbyn of being part of the jewish conspiracy to take over the world?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/10/2019 at 8:13 PM, oldhippy said:

But but but..... isn't Corbyn an alleged folllower of Marx and Trotsky? Maybe you would be more credible to accuse Corbyn of being part of the jewish conspiracy to take over the world?

Is Labour now not called New Labour, if so, what happened to New Labour...?

 

Or perhaps Labour wants to go back to how they were, which I assume is Corbyn's goal, a short step from being Communist...

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7 hours ago, kamdonacaden said:

Corbyn's plan to scrap ALL immigration rules and throw the doors wide open to any one; force all businesses to give shares to all employees; and  Onlinesbi sudoku incometaxindiaefiling give workers "unprecedented" but not yet disclosed rights and protection will do what for the economy?

More unattributed hogwash.

 

And by the way, what’s wrong with ‘worker’s rights and protections’?

 

 

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Guido confirms that the leaks are true. Some folk running scared.

 

The situation for other publications currently going through hacked DMs – of which their journalists were neither the sender or the recipient – is more complicated. There is no public interest defence for the hacking. There is no evidence of crimes – apart from the act of hacking. There is a lot of stuff that is embarrassing for politicians and journalists. Am looking at you, Ms Hyde…

 

 

https://order-order.com/2019/11/19/banks-twitter-direct-message-leaks/

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