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brianj1964

O/A visa and insurance experience today

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12 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Even in this case Thailand is far from be losing something

in a lot of cases the old chap has probably already paid during years for his wife\gf and thai family

large amount of money in house, car. land. education and health payments and so on.

Plus the money in bank, if nobody from the family come to claim it.

Globaly the payment balance, even with a ''death run'' is largely in favor of Thailand

It seems to me that hardly a soul in Thailand considers the good of the country as a whole.  It's almost exclusively me, me, me.

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1 hour ago, moontang said:

How many actually had the 800k in the bank?  Seems like that all started at Jomtien, while I agree Phuket seemed to be ground zero for uninsured Brits crashing motorcycles..would like to have seen them target that specifically.  Hard to fathom people learning to ride in Phuket, while on a drinking holiday.  Probably safer in just plain insane BKK.

What started in Jomtien? There's not even any hospitals there. If you read the papers, it was the government hospitals in Phuket that reported about rising costs for non-paid hospital bills. Especially at Vachira Hospital. 

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I don't think any of us have enough info to make even an educated guess as to who is doing a runner on their medical bills.

I have friends in all age groups but my experience is that it's the retired crowd that has the big medical bills. I have 4 friends here in their 60's that had to set up a payment plan with the hospitals as they couldn't settle their bills when discharged. 2 from bike accidents, 1 from a motorbike accident, and the 4th from a heart attack. One has left the country. I don't know if he paid off the b
ill or if he plans to return. I have no idea whether they're here on original O or O-A visas or what their extension is based on.

I also think that many posters here are overstating our value to the Thai economy. Most of my friends aren't spending anywhere near 800k baht a year and a lot of that money just gets exchanged among farangs. they go to farang owned bars and restaurants and patronize farang owned businesses. Some even have farang landlords. here's an example of the good life in Chiang Mai:

rent --15,000/month

food and entertainment and everyday living expenses -- 50,000/ month when in Thailand

Travel expenses are much more but that's spent outside of Thailand.

A new refrigerator -- 30,000 baht, but most of that goes to China.

So, total of less than 800,000 baht a year. For 2 people.

I have no idea what it costs to live in Phuket, Hua Hin, or Bangkok, and how much of the money goes into the Thai economy, but there are an awful lot of retirees in CM.

 

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6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This claim by the Ministry of Health and the hospital sector is in no way substantiated, and it's tiresome to hear people trotting it out as if it was fact. Unpaid bills are a problem no doubt, but the list of culprits almost certainly runs in the following order (with locals leading the way by a country mile).

 

1. Thai nationals, presenting insufficient ID or address information, and those who routinely default on credit card bills. 

2. Regional visitors, including migrant workers from neighbouring countries, again poorly documented. 

3. People on tourist visas or VE who skip the country. High risk taking demographic among younger travellers, with cases often reported in the news.

4. Long stay expats. These are by far the most heavily documented of all groups, the easiest to trace, and those with most to lose if defaulting on their bills. 

 

The complaints of high levels of unpaid bills from Non O-A visa holders are not backed up by any evidence, and highly unlikely. However, people on O-A's do serve as a useful control group for the insurance pilot project. And the pilot project itself serves as a useful excuse for the immigration reformists to cut the legs out from under one of the most favourable visa categories still remaining in 2019. 

The grouping above is reasonable enough, I suppose.  All these groups receive care, and some are unable to pay or avoid payment, but what we are talking about is the problem involving foreigners and the requirement for health insurance for some of them.

 

I used the term "doing a runner."  That was a quick and incomplete reference to the problem, and I apologize for that. It is only part of the problem the health care people have been dealing with. I speculate that the runners are primarily tourists.  I should have added those with insufficient funds who attempt to pay their bills but are unable to cover their health care costs. 

 

I referred in particular to the British expatriates who have been hit hard by the decreasing value of pound to the bhat.  Many, unfortunately, came to Thailand years ago with what has ended up to be insufficient funds. Some British aren't the only ones who have this problem --- especially as expatriates from other countries also get older and incur more health care costs.

 

Some, to my knowledge, do run from their bills back to the NHS.  Some die.  Others are stuck.  Many use up the 800k in the bank.  Others never really had it there in the first place.  It is an open secret that for years many foreigners, not just Brits, were giving false affidavits about income or dodging financial requirements in other ways. The UK, the USA, and Australia will no longer do affidavits.

 

One partial solution is to require health insurance focusing on the old folks using NON-OA visas and extensions of stay. This solution landing on one visa class is ill-designed, to be polite about it!  But it is what the government has come up with so far.  Above I mentioned tourists as a problem.  My guess is that a health care fee to pay for that was not acceptable to TAT, but that discussion is for a another day.

 

This discussion, "O/A visa and insurance experience today," is off track unless someone has actual new experience today to report that is relevant.  I suggest including discussion of experiences with the accredited Thai insurance companies on the longstay.TGIA website.  That would be helpful.

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10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, and all that gets left behind if they can get rid of him before he becomes a burden.

Sad but so true.

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1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

What started in Jomtien? There's not even any hospitals there. If you read the papers, it was the government hospitals in Phuket that reported about rising costs for non-paid hospital bills. Especially at Vachira Hospital. 

Jomtien is or was one of the more crooked immigration offices, and agents were more common there, than anywhere else.  Between the liar letters and the multitude of agents promising anything..it created an environment rife with dishonesty.  Too many trying to bite the apple, and the letters were nullified, and note, they appear to be the only office requiring flow up balance checks.  Chiang Mai isn't far behind.  In both places, retirees, who actually had the nice chunk of money in the bank were the exception.  Many of the injectors simply don't have it..kind of obvious.  Just like a good portion of the insurance injectors don't have it, either, but it will be a pretty big burden on the 75+ crowd.  Old people can be just as selfish as any milineal, or even kindergartner, for that matter.

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I swear I have 2800 in rental income..I just forgot to mention the 2300 in mortgages....that was typical.

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4 hours ago, jayceenik said:

So, Thai authorities think that a  farang on a O-A stay permit extensions with 800/400k in the bank and obviously firm intention to remain in LOS is going to make a runner on a Thailand hospital bill? And get on the next flight out? Never to come back? 

 

Defies all logic!

 

 

As others keep saying, that group has probably the highest likelihood of dying and leaving a large unpaid care bill. 

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1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, and all that gets left behind if they can get rid of him before he becomes a burden.

Yes 

the system is well oiled

since the last 40 years a lot of thais (Mainly from the Issan area) have

made a rocket progression in term of asset owning just with that

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