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Just got this from the US Embassy Services regarding the need for Insurance


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On 11/8/2019 at 12:16 PM, JESSVANPELT said:

Extensions of stay based on retirement do not require health insurance.

Based on what I've been reading, that's only correct if the person never first entered Thailand with an 0-A visa (because, if they did, they will have to obtain the long-stay insurance or their next extension based on retirement will not be granted).  Those obtaining annual extensions of stay based on an original Non-O visa do not (so far) have to comply with any health insurance requirement.

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22 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Says who?  I have read the police order like I am sure you have and no where does it state what you are stating as fact. Do you know anyone at CW that entered Thailand on an old O-A nonimmigrant visa that has been required to produce insurance for their extension of stay based on retirement? If what you said was fact from CW you would have people on thai forums in the hundreds telling us the true facts and many would not get an extension of stay. You may be worried and upset but don’t state facts that are simply not true. 

I do. Have a close friend in Udon Thani on retirement extensions who was forced to apply for  the Thai insurance or told to leave the country. Happened about a week ago. He originally entered on an OA visa about 10 years ago, been on extensions ever since. He had a Health insurance policy (non-Thai)  for a 1,000,000 US dollars but they refused to accept it.......

 

Immigration officers are a law unto themselves, what the next one will do, who knows, but this DID happen. Can only hope that some sanity will soon prevail, or we all need to start making plans.

 

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22 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Thank you for sharing the truth and not speculation.

I think the guy you quoted has been repeatedly asked what type of visa he extended but has not yet come up with an answer.  It may indeed be the truth but may not be relevant to the insurance question being discussed in this thread.

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On 11/8/2019 at 12:16 PM, JESSVANPELT said:

Extensions of stay based on retirement do not require health insurance.

Those getting a new retirement visa from there homee countries will have to have health insurance.

 

The statement is correct just not complete

Yes every extension for retirement visa needs an insurance.

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Remember , US citizens has some privileges over other countries citizens. in Thailand. Like owning a company 100%.

Embassy don't make mistakes,or copy paste.

US citizens who has health insurance from their home country with global coverage can provide it to immigration with necessary documents.

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21 hours ago, rickudon said:

I do. Have a close friend in Udon Thani on retirement extensions who was forced to apply for  the Thai insurance or told to leave the country. Happened about a week ago. He originally entered on an OA visa about 10 years ago, been on extensions ever since. He had a Health insurance policy (non-Thai)  for a 1,000,000 US dollars but they refused to accept it.......

 

Immigration officers are a law unto themselves, what the next one will do, who knows, but this DID happen. Can only hope that some sanity will soon prevail, or we all need to start making plans.

 

Probably that's a life insurance. I don't know about 1 million dollars health insurance. If anyone can afford to pay premiums for a million dollar insurance then he shouldn't complain about 45000 baht a yr Thai insurance premium, Bcz 1  million dolar US insurance premium will cost 45000 baht a month in US  maybe more with global coverage. Even Union retirees or union workers don't get that kind of coverage. How do I know? because i was a union worker once.

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On 11/9/2019 at 9:26 AM, Sheryl said:

There are very reliable reports from multiple members being told by CW that they would be required to have insurance to get their extensions. These people were asking in advance, not actually extending at that time. One eent so far ad to consult a senior officer.  The most recent such was on 6 November.

 

On what date exactly did these people get their extensions? (Wondering if it is a change subsequent to the earlier reports we got -- which would be very good news). And are you certain their original visa was OA and not O? People often confuse these.

 

 

November 6-8 and these guys have been here for years. Some married but still use retirement extension of stay. All had 800 k in bank. I have not seen their passport to confirm old  O-A non immigrant visa but they know what they are talking about and use to participate in TFV. I asked one to post who does it on his own without an agent and he said no. He is not a fan of TFV.  I am convinced no health insurance is required at CW for an extension is stay except maybe maybe if it is your first extension after entering with an O-A. Most of my friends have Cigna worldwide insurance like I do or some comparable health insurance. But none were asked for Proof of health insurance.
 

So I am signing off on this topic. CW has seen large crowds of people getting extensions of stay and if health insurance was required for people who years ago came to Thailand on an old expired O-A visa the numbers of complainers would be massive. IMO just like the massive uproar over the TM 30 issue which turns out to not be a big deal at CW also. 
 

 Take care. You are a good person and I appreciate you and several others on TFV. 

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On 11/10/2019 at 12:04 PM, LivinLOS said:

Its black and white (and red underline ???? ) saying it doesnt say what it says is purely denial.. Listing what is needed for an extension of stay.. 

 

OA-Rules.jpg

What's most important is what is not posted and omitted, and that is the effective date of October 31 from the cut and paste above.  One should read the entire order(attached again) and note #2 just above the cut and paste. 

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR39UI_zBxVLedZKgZeAeYnvb0yyyIsr6SHPhnq64ohzACO7VsLUU_LlGn0

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11 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

What's most important is what is not posted and omitted, and that is the effective date of October 31 from the cut and paste above.  One should read the entire order(attached again) and note #2 just above the cut and paste. 

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR39UI_zBxVLedZKgZeAeYnvb0yyyIsr6SHPhnq64ohzACO7VsLUU_LlGn0

This doesn't change the correctness about what was said above. For any future extension the above quoted rules will probably be applied.

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On 11/11/2019 at 5:42 PM, sencelebi said:

Yes every extension for retirement visa needs an insurance.

Cannot fully agree but it may be terminology.

An Extension of Stay (based on retirement) applied to a Non-Imm O-A Entry/ Permit To Stay, will require insurance.

An O-A Visa obtained in your home country will require insurance.

(The confusion arises as an O-A Visa is often referred to as 'a retirement Visa').

 

A retirement based Extension, applied for in Thailand, based on a regular Non-Imm_O Entry/ Permit to Stay, does not require insurance. (At this time).

 

Edited by jacko45k
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12 hours ago, Wake Up said:

November 6-8 and these guys have been here for years. Some married but still use retirement extension of stay. All had 800 k in bank. I have not seen their passport to confirm old  O-A non immigrant visa but they know what they are talking about and use to participate in TFV. I asked one to post who does it on his own without an agent and he said no. He is not a fan of TFV.  I am convinced no health insurance is required at CW for an extension is stay except maybe maybe if it is your first extension after entering with an O-A. Most of my friends have Cigna worldwide insurance like I do or some comparable health insurance. But none were asked for Proof of health insurance.
 

So I am signing off on this topic. CW has seen large crowds of people getting extensions of stay and if health insurance was required for people who years ago came to Thailand on an old expired O-A visa the numbers of complainers would be massive. IMO just like the massive uproar over the TM 30 issue which turns out to not be a big deal at CW also. 
 

 Take care. You are a good person and I appreciate you and several others on TFV. 

We know that there was a meeting Nov 7 at Suvannabhumi where it was clarified to airport IOs that the insurance requirement pertained only to OAs issued after Oct 31st. Since then no further reports of problems on entry. Quite likely there was clarification given to CW IOs at the same time. Good news if so.

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On 11/10/2019 at 12:04 PM, LivinLOS said:

Its black and white (and red underline ???? ) saying it doesnt say what it says is purely denial.. Listing what is needed for an extension of stay.. 

 

OA-Rules.jpg

You are assuming (1) a literal precision in the wording of TI orders which is not at all their practice. (2) a linguistic precision -- in general and especially for verb tense -- usually absent in the Thai language.

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2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You are assuming (1) a literal precision in the wording of TI orders which is not at all their practice. (2) a linguistic precision -- in general and especially for verb tense -- usually absent in the Thai language.

Ohh I am not at all saying they wont do something different far far from it.. I fully expect all kinds of random applications. 

 

But I am saying that, very clearly, in both this and the arrival stamp in situation which they are now not following, the wording is clear. Almost unusually so. 

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2 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Ohh I am not at all saying they wont do something different far far from it.. I fully expect all kinds of random applications. 

 

But I am saying that, very clearly, in both this and the arrival stamp in situation which they are now not following, the wording is clear. Almost unusually so. 

Not at all the case with the actual Thai wording.

 

It can equally be translated:

Gets a non OA visa OR

Has gotten/has recived a non OA visa

Etc etc

They did not add any of the helper words which would clarify verb tense

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Sigh.  I've never felt more stressed about coming back to Thailand than I have since this new order.  I am a 56 year old who spends anywhere from 4 to 6 months per year in Thailand for the winter months.  I'm not a fan of border runs, so the OA Visa is the best for that length of time. In addition, I'm hearing if you rack up to many runs, you stand a chance of getting rejected 

 

I received my OA visa in mid October, prior to the deadline from my consulate in USA.  While they did not require insurance at that time, I still purchased a policy from Regency designed specifically for this new requirement.  (As a side note, I still get travel insurance). My broker ,who got me the policy, had them fill out the certificate from the website and sign it.  I do not think it has any kind of stamp however, which may pose a problem. Who knows

 

I plan on arriving next week, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best    when I arrive, I'll post my experience here on a new thread 

Edited by bangkokbanjo
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20 minutes ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Sigh.  I've never felt more stressed about coming back to Thailand than I have since this new order.  I am a 56 year old who spends anywhere from 4 to 6 months per year in Thailand for the winter months.  I'm not a fan of border runs, so the OA Visa is the best for that length of time. In addition, I'm hearing if you rack up to many runs, you stand a chance of getting rejected 

 

I received my OA visa in mid October, prior to the deadline from my consulate in USA.  While they did not require insurance at that time, I still purchased a policy from Regency designed specifically for this new requirement.  (As a side note, I still get travel insurance). My broker ,who got me the policy, had them fill out the certificate from the website and sign it.  I do not think it has any kind of stamp however, which may pose a problem. Who knows

 

I plan on arriving next week, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best    when I arrive, I'll post my experience here on a new thread 

Snap, 56 as well, I was looking to the OA as a possible Multi entry until this came along (option no longer viable), as I understand from enquiries some months ago, these Thai insurance policies may not be effective staying under 6 months in Thailand (unless something has changed that I've not found yet).  

Hope Regency works out ok, I take it you have to e-mail them for this Thailand specific policy?

I will look for your update...

 

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7 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Snap, 56 as well, I was looking to the OA as a possible Multi entry until this came along (option no longer viable), as I understand from enquiries some months ago, these Thai insurance policies may not be effective staying under 6 months in Thailand (unless something has changed that I've not found yet).  

Hope Regency works out ok, I take it you have to e-mail them for this Thailand specific policy?

I will look for your update...

 

I actually never plan on using this policy, as I got it just for satisfying the requirements for the OA visa.   

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On 11/8/2019 at 5:09 PM, CALSinCM said:

 

A very good friend of mine who is in his early 70s has been coming here one or twice a year for extended periods on an O-A visa.  He comes for the same reasons a many single (and perhaps married) foreign guys do.  Inexpensive (until recently), female company, and exotic scenery (it ain't Kansas or Texas or anything like America).  My friend doesn't drink so I won't add that as an attraction.

With the news that O-A visas were going to require insurance, he relocated his itinerary to Cambodia almost immediately.  He began going there right after the initial news regarding insurance broke. 

His view is reflective of what will probably become a common view for guys 65 and up:  Why purchase an insurance policy that is over-priced for the minuscule amount of benefits paid and that is so packed with exclusions for pre-existing conditions and age related conditions including moratoriums on most pathologies that affect aging people that the policy is essentially useless - especially if you can self-insure.  And he has the money to self-insure.
"But, you really, really need insurance because if you get sick you may end up with a 1 or 2 million THB bill."  Really?  And what good is an insurance policy that doesn't cover that 1 or 2 million THB bill?  Seriously!

So my friend said the heck with it (I can't print what he really said) and now splits his time between Cambodia and the US. 

I believe that they'll be a downturn in the number of men in the 65 year old and up range coming to Thailand on O-A, which is sort of a harbinger of what's to come if suddenly the Non-O expats find themselves saddled with having to obtain worthless, expensive mandatory insurance for the sole purpose of 'having the privilege' to reside in Thailand. 

"Good riddance losers!"  Yeah, whatever.  Thailand isn't the only game in town and in short order nor will it be the best imho.

@CALSinCM Where in Cambodia is your friend hanging out?

I've heard that the visa situation there is very easy, but that the country can be rough around the edges.

 

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1 hour ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Sigh.  I've never felt more stressed about coming back to Thailand than I have since this new order.  I am a 56 year old who spends anywhere from 4 to 6 months per year in Thailand for the winter months.  I'm not a fan of border runs, so the OA Visa is the best for that length of time. In addition, I'm hearing if you rack up to many runs, you stand a chance of getting rejected 

 

I received my OA visa in mid October, prior to the deadline from my consulate in USA.  While they did not require insurance at that time, I still purchased a policy from Regency designed specifically for this new requirement.  (As a side note, I still get travel insurance). My broker ,who got me the policy, had them fill out the certificate from the website and sign it.  I do not think it has any kind of stamp however, which may pose a problem. Who knows

 

I plan on arriving next week, so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best    when I arrive, I'll post my experience here on a new thread 

 

They are no longer applying this requirement to visas issued before Oct 31 at the airport. Initially did and after a few days of drama and chaos there was a meeting where it was clarified.

 

And if they were, with the signed the certificate you would be OK for the first year. Subsequent years might be an issue though.

 

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 5:58 PM, sencelebi said:

Probably that's a life insurance. I don't know about 1 million dollars health insurance. If anyone can afford to pay premiums for a million dollar insurance then he shouldn't complain about 45000 baht a yr Thai insurance premium, Bcz 1  million dolar US insurance premium will cost 45000 baht a month in US  maybe more with global coverage. Even Union retirees or union workers don't get that kind of coverage. How do I know? because i was a union worker once.

Rubbish.  I have free HEALTH insurance for life after retiring from a County job (union job ) in the USA and my policy has NO DOLLAR AMOUNT LIMITS for both in-patient and out-patient coverage (worldwide) for life.  I have already used it here in Thailand - Blue Cross / Blue Shield a.k.a. Global Core.  I pay nothing for it (now that I am retired) so please don't state your experience as a fact and assume that everyone is in the same boat with regards to health insurance.

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On 11/11/2019 at 5:58 PM, sencelebi said:

Probably that's a life insurance. I don't know about 1 million dollars health insurance. If anyone can afford to pay premiums for a million dollar insurance then he shouldn't complain about 45000 baht a yr Thai insurance premium, Bcz 1  million dolar US insurance premium will cost 45000 baht a month in US  maybe more with global coverage. Even Union retirees or union workers don't get that kind of coverage. How do I know? because i was a union worker once.

Plenty of people paying premiums for 1 million USD in cover under an expat policy with premiums nowhete near that.  Don't confuse coverage in the US with an expat policy issued out of US or other western country. 

 

1 million US is typical cover level for such policies though I have seen a few  at 500,000 USD. Typically one has a choice of coverage area (1) worldwide including USA  (2) worldwide excluding USA. Some also offer a third tier that excludes a few other places. The worlwide inc USA premiums are very high but the rest not.  My 1 million policy excludes USA, UK, Singapore, Hong kong and a few other places I forget because I never go there. Costs me about 8,000 baht a month.

 

The excluded countries -- inc USA -- are usually covered for emergency care during trips of short duration though. 

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35 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

They are no longer applying this requirement to visas issued before Oct 31 at the airport. Initially did and after a few days of drama and chaos there was a meeting where it was clarified.

 

And if they were, with the signed the certificate you would be OK for the first year. Subsequent years might be an issue though.

 

 

Well, I'm hoping that is true.  I'll find out in a week and post here 

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On 11/8/2019 at 10:51 PM, sirineou said:

Let me see if I understand this. You will go trough the inconvenience of moving to another country,  so that you would not endure the inconvenience and lower cost of applying for an extension to stay based on Marriage?

Actually  no inconvenience to  move. I  have  dual  nationality outside of Thailand.  Lower  cost?  Not  really anymore especially with  the  additional  cost  of dubious valid  "Insurance" compelled   from Thai  based  or  affiliated  providers. Wife is  agreeable to  a new location of  habitation. Yes..married. Have  used  the  basis  of stay as  retirement because  is  less  of a  drama or  ourselves  and  Immigration   due to  the  "visitation   exercise  and  cost to  their  system.

Consider  that  reality of the  fact that  if only  500  of  those such as  myself   depart  thailand and  take  with us  our  fixed  deposits, no  longer  contribute  to  the  base economy via  living expenses derived from offshore income then  the  loss overall   will  be greater to  Thailand than  that deemed to  be the nominated  accused  cost attributed  to  those  such as  myself.

There is little  about  this  new policy  that  averts  my  suspicion that it is  a  contrived  extortion  on  behalf  of  private  business  .

I personally  would  prefer to put  expenditure  into  the provision  of  departure  and  access to  another  more  discretionary  nation  than to  maintain  my presence in Thailand  now.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Actually  no inconvenience to  move. I  have  dual  nationality outside of Thailand.  Lower  cost?  Not  really anymore especially with  the  additional  cost  of dubious valid  "Insurance" compelled   from Thai  based  or  affiliated  providers. Wife is  agreeable to  a new location of  habitation. Yes..married. Have  used  the  basis  of stay as  retirement because  is  less  of a  drama or  ourselves  and  Immigration   due to  the  "visitation   exercise  and  cost to  their  system.

Consider  that  reality of the  fact that  if only  500  of  those such as  myself   depart  thailand and  take  with us  our  fixed  deposits, no  longer  contribute  to  the  base economy via  living expenses derived from offshore income then  the  loss overall   will  be greater to  Thailand than  that deemed to  be the nominated  accused  cost attributed  to  those  such as  myself.

There is little  about  this  new policy  that  averts  my  suspicion that it is  a  contrived  extortion  on  behalf  of  private  business  .

I personally  would  prefer to put  expenditure  into  the provision  of  departure  and  access to  another  more  discretionary  nation  than to  maintain  my presence in Thailand  now.

 

 

 That's entirely different than what I understood the situation to be.

If you have other better options then why not? I also have the option of dual nationality, and have initiated the process of activating it. in fact  right after this I will be calling to follow up on some documents I send.

Life is all about having options , and IMO it is foolish not to exercise the best ones. 

A change of environment might be good

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21 minutes ago, sirineou said:
46 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Actually  no inconvenience to  move. I  have  dual  nationality outside of Thailand.  Lower  cost?  Not  really anymore especially with  the  additional  cost  of dubious valid  "Insurance" compelled   from Thai  based  or  affiliated  providers. Wife is  agreeable to  a new location of  habitation. Yes..married. Have  used  the  basis  of stay as  retirement because  is  less  of a  drama or  ourselves  and  Immigration   due to  the  "visitation   exercise  and  cost to  their  system.

Consider  that  reality of the  fact that  if only  500  of  those such as  myself   depart  thailand and  take  with us  our  fixed  deposits, no  longer  contribute  to  the  base economy via  living expenses derived from offshore income then  the  loss overall   will  be greater to  Thailand than  that deemed to  be the nominated  accused  cost attributed  to  those  such as  myself.

There is little  about  this  new policy  that  averts  my  suspicion that it is  a  contrived  extortion  on  behalf  of  private  business  .

I personally  would  prefer to put  expenditure  into  the provision  of  departure  and  access to  another  more  discretionary  nation  than to  maintain  my presence in Thailand  now.

 

 

 That's entirely different than what I understood the situation to be.

If you have other better options then why not? I also have the option of dual nationality, and have initiated the process of activating it. in fact  right after this I will be calling to follow up on some documents I send.

Life is all about having options , and IMO it is foolish not to exercise the best ones. 

A change of environment might be good

Also look into the option that your second nationality might provide an embassy income letter if thats an issue. Mine does, so even if I don't decide to live there I can at the very least  use that nationalities income affidavit.

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On 11/13/2019 at 2:19 PM, MeePeeMai said:

Rubbish.  I have free HEALTH insurance for life after retiring from a County job (union job ) in the USA and my policy has NO DOLLAR AMOUNT LIMITS for both in-patient and out-patient coverage (worldwide) for life.  I have already used it here in Thailand - Blue Cross / Blue Shield a.k.a. Global Core.  I pay nothing for it (now that I am retired) so please don't state your experience as a fact and assume that everyone is in the same boat with regards to health insurance.

So far US insurance companies don't seem to want to play in the Thai sandbox, so you, like a lot of us local and federal retirees are in the same boat.  Wait till you get Medicare and have to pay for Part B premiums and supplemental insurance (wrap around) and I am going to bet that your going to have to take Medicare Part B despite your claim of I pay nothing for it

 

Once you hit 65 your going to find lots of surprises regarding health insurance despite what your agencies retirement counselors may have told you 

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