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Elite visa alternatives?


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So I have been here on (probably) too many tourist visas (2 SETVs with extensions, 2 Visa Exempts with extensions, currently on METV) over the last 2 years and its time to either bite the bullet and pay for an Elite visa or consider other countries.   I'm 44 years old by the way so not old enough for retirement visa, nor am I married or have kids with a Thai.

 

Not sure if its relevant but I am a so called "Digital Nomad" and have my own online business and UK Ltd company so I do work where I live on my laptop, probably in the grey area as all of my income ($100K+ per year) comes from the USA.

 

I'm guessing I am answering my own question here as the Elite visa does seem to fit my needs to live somewhere long term without the hassle.    However, if I had a USA passport I would probably move to Vietnam as they offer a 1 year visa for Americans - are there any nearby countries that offer similar for UK passport holders that allow hassle free stay of up to 1 year?   I'm not keen on learning to speak Thai (rubbish at languages) and would prefer the flexibility to move to other parts of Thailand when I want to rather than being stuck where the school is so I'm not considering an Ed Visa - also I have read there is some kind of crackdown on this as well as a way to just extend tourist visas.   

 

So before I do bite the bullet and hand over 500,000 baht for a visa I am wondering if I have exhausted all possible options?

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38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Why not set up something with an umbrella company and be 100% legal with a work permit.. 

Theres nothing 'grey' about living here full time, working, earning 100K a year and not paying any Thai taxes. Thats not a digital nomad, its a digital tax evader.. 

I pay full UK Taxes (corporation tax and personal tax on salary and dividends) currently so not evading tax as far as I know.    I say 'grey' area as its just work I do on my laptop at home and even then most of the income is passive.    

 

Is there an option for a foreigner to legitimately open an equivalent to a UK Ltd in Thailand bearing in mind I would be the only employee?  I have no problem with paying taxes where I live but didn't think this was an option.   The only option I heard of previously was via a company called Iglu which acted as an umbrella company but I heard they have lost the ability to do this to obtain a business visa. 

 

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if you are here 180 days a year this is your tax residency, this is where your tax base is.. So yes, paying taxes in UK is not where they are due and yes you are evading Thai taxation. You know this really tho !! 

No you will not get a branch office option without Thai staff.. The only freelancer / one man band option is the umbrella company route. Iglu obtain visas and extensions on 100s of staff all the time. 

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8 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

So yes, paying taxes in UK is not where they are due and yes you are evading Thai taxation. You know this really tho !! 

I may have come close (or even above 180 days), but I have also spent time in the UK over the last 2 years I have not been living here full time.   Anyway, since I am here on a tourist visa and not allowed to work how could I possible pay tax here?  

 

Iglu does not appear to be an umbrella company any more - their site suggests they only 'employ' people now and do not seem to offer any kind of umbrella services.   Are there any others or was this the only one?  If you do know of a way that I can legitimately pay taxes here, get a work permit etc I am very open to this option.    Do you have any information on where I could look to find out more info?

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13 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If he doesn't bring income into Thailand in the year it's earned he isn't evading any tax in Thailand.

Only the case for non domestic sourced income and savings.. 

 

For income where the person is actively working incountry, that is domestic sourced and taxable. That is what is controlled via the work permit process and why all income from that work needs to be declared. 

 

Of course games are very easy to play, but being easy doesnt make it legal.

 

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14 minutes ago, James105 said:

Iglu does not appear to be an umbrella company any more - their site suggests they only 'employ' people now and do not seem to offer any kind of umbrella services.   Are there any others or was this the only one?  If you do know of a way that I can legitimately pay taxes here, get a work permit etc I am very open to this option.    Do you have any information on where I could look to find out more info?

There were at least 2 others but with much worse costs, I dont have them bookmarked but costed one out and was amazed at how much worse it was.. I understand iglu may have changed the front facing information, so as to not appear to simply be a visa mill, but are performing the exact same service, of 'employing people' and legalizing thier employment based on the income / revenue stream. 

And yes, your visa status and your tax obligations are not in any way correlated, you can be here on 30 day visa exempt stamps and still be here over 180 days and have a tax obligation. The tax obligation doesnt even only depend on work, theres many variables (passive income brought into the country in the year it was earned, pension income, etc etc). 

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This is another one I'm aware of. I have no experience with them but I believe it's the same structure as Iglu. They used have pricing information which is now gone, IIRC it was in a similar ballpark to Iglu, but they were working on a fixed fee basis, presumably with the idea that they run the minimum necessary income through the structure to qualify for the work permit (which is its own issue vis a vis legality, but TIT). I think this one is run by a Thai guy.

 

https://gentres.net/  

https://www.facebook.com/gentresthailand/

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Setting up a company here and getting a work permit is not trivial, and can be expensive, since you are forced to hire Thai employees. However, if your business can be translated into additional business in Thailand, or if your Thai employees can increase your capacity back home, it could be a very good choice.

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32 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I understand iglu may have changed the front facing information, so as to not appear to simply be a visa mill, but are performing the exact same service, of 'employing people' and legalizing thier employment based on the income / revenue stream. 

Why would they need to change their front facing information - is this not a legitimate way to get a business/work visa?

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1 hour ago, James105 said:

I pay full UK Taxes (corporation tax and personal tax on salary and dividends) currently so not evading tax as far as I know.    I say 'grey' area as its just work I do on my laptop at home and even then most of the income is passive.    

 

Is there an option for a foreigner to legitimately open an equivalent to a UK Ltd in Thailand bearing in mind I would be the only employee?  I have no problem with paying taxes where I live but didn't think this was an option.   The only option I heard of previously was via a company called Iglu which acted as an umbrella company but I heard they have lost the ability to do this to obtain a business visa. 

 

It isn't grey, you live and work here, so need a work permit. It doesn't matter where your customers or your income is coming from. If you live here more than 180 days a year you are a tax resident too.

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6 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I'd look elsewhere for a more permanent place and then only visit Thailand occassiinaly. PI does the SRRV for life and wait till you are 50 for Thailand

Unfortunately, the PI is not an option due to poor internet connectivity.  

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Money earned a year prior and deposited in Saving accounts is not taxed again in Thailand. With his income, plausible to have savings of a year old, to live on. 
Kind of silly to start about tax evading as well, Thais do it best. Most 'businesses' aren't even officially registered as such, Thais consider it a 'Shop' if small.

Anyway, I would just get the Elite visa for 5 years, to be hassle free and then consider after that again. It is a fair amount of time to see things play out.

Edited by tabarin
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2 hours ago, tabarin said:

Anyway, I would just get the Elite visa for 5 years, to be hassle free and then consider after that again. It is a fair amount of time to see things play out.

This was my original thinking, although I am wondering if would qualify for the Smart visa.   I know I meet the earning requirements but don't know too much else about it... the information out there is somewhat confusing.

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3 hours ago, James105 said:

Why would they need to change their front facing information - is this not a legitimate way to get a business/work visa?

Because as a BOI based tech company, that has the Thai employee requirement, they are legally able to do this. 

 

However they probably dont want the BOI to assume thier sole purpose is selling visas over growing a tech company that can employ non thais. Theres a distinction. 

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3 hours ago, racket said:

You are wrong because in order to obtain a work permit he has to a) work for a company registered in Thailand b) earned income in Thailand. If he would be a tax evader then what about the millions of tourists who check their work emails while on vacation? You do realize that he is working FROM Thailand while running his business from another jurisdiction. 

Your right.. Without those things working in Thailand is no legal.. 

That doesnt mean without those things he can do as he pleases. 

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16 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Because as a BOI based tech company, that has the Thai employee requirement, they are legally able to do this. 

 

However they probably dont want the BOI to assume thier sole purpose is selling visas over growing a tech company that can employ non thais. Theres a distinction. 

So what IGLU does is actually a grey area and was probably not correctly explained when they applied for their BOI approval.

This means their work permits issued on this basis could be deemed to be breaking the rules any day and in this case people would have 24 hours to leave Thailand. Doesn't sound like a good option. With a tourist visa you can at least be sure to stay in Thailand for the next 90 days, and it costs only a fraction.

Edited by jackdd
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As someone in a similar position I would say you would have to be pretty silly to buy the elite visa!! No one knows what thailand will be like in a few years time it has already gone downhill fast in just the last 6 years. You can buy a 1 year business visa for vietnam for 450usd that is multiple entry as well, no need to get re entry permits. The other option is to do a ED visa here for a year if you want to stay and not leave. End of the day with the sort of money you are earning it would be far better to just spend 3 months in thailand and the rest of the time in Vietnam or even Malaysia!!

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6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

So what IGLU does is actually a grey area and was probably not correctly explained when they applied for their BOI approval.

This means their work permits issued on this basis could be deemed to be breaking the rules any day and in this case people would have 24 hours to leave Thailand. Doesn't sound like a good option. With a tourist visa you can at least be sure to stay in Thailand for the next 90 days, and it costs only a fraction.

What iglu and others do, is run a tech company than can engage as many non Thais as they wish.. BOI certified. 

The purpose of that tech company (I am wildly guessing) isnt 'to circumvent Thai labour law for freelancers'.. As such, thier web site information is geared to the correct purpose of the company. 

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44 minutes ago, theonetrueaussie said:

As someone in a similar position I would say you would have to be pretty silly to buy the elite visa!! No one knows what thailand will be like in a few years time it has already gone downhill fast in just the last 6 years. You can buy a 1 year business visa for vietnam for 450usd that is multiple entry as well, no need to get re entry permits. The other option is to do a ED visa here for a year if you want to stay and not leave. End of the day with the sort of money you are earning it would be far better to just spend 3 months in thailand and the rest of the time in Vietnam or even Malaysia!!

I'd love to be able to get a 1 year visa for Vietnam but I can't find any information that this is a viable option for a non US passport holder.  This is from https://www.myvietnamvisa.com/visa-requirements/united-kingdom.html.  

 

Q: I am about to apply for a visa online as I arrive in Hanoi on Friday.  I visit Vietnam often, so would like to apply for a 1 year visa, but some forums suggest that this is only available for US citizens.  Is a 1 year available to a British citizen?

A: We are afraid that 1 year visa is currently available for US passports only, we will keep you updated when it becomes available for UK passport holders.

 

Vietnam is a less viable option than Thailand it seems as maximum stay is only 3 months (unless US).

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The last time I recall someone being arrested and charged for being a DN in Thailand was let’s see...never.

 

I was in very much the same situation as you. I opted for the Elite visa, even though I am married and have a kid. Point blank told numerous immigration officers what I do and they just don’t care.

 

Not to beat this archaic topic to death anymore than it already has been over the years, I am considering a Thai company with my wife so that we can start financing in Thailand—is. Mortgage etc.

 

Lastly, to answer the latter part of your question: Cambodia I believe offers long term visas, as does the Philippines. I think Vietnam allows extensions that visa agents can get for you — might be worth looking into. 

Edited by mduras01
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7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Why not set up something with an umbrella company and be 100% legal with a work permit.. 

Theres nothing 'grey' about living here full time, working, earning 100K a year and not paying any Thai taxes. Thats not a digital nomad, its a digital tax evader.. 

everything in Thailand is grey. And blue. And purple. 

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