United Kingdom might not exist in a decade, half of UK citizens think - poll

[tebee]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Can you give me a few of your ideas why "the UK doesn't work well for anybody within it, whether they be English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish"?

 

My two-word question was meant to elicit some degree of validation of the above claim, whether it be from yourself or the member who originally offered it. I am particularly interested in the claim that it doesn't work well for anybody within it.

 

My one word answer.

Brexit 

[NanLaew]

42 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Apologies for my slow response. 

 

That there is a stark difference in political perspectives has been clear for some time, but the most recent polling shows just how far apart Scottish and English perspectives actually are. Of course, it is an entirely valid view that this is simply the effect of representative democracy, however when it is also clear that the tail (as one of our TV friends has referred to Scotland) can never wag the dog, but must always follow the direction the dog chooses to take, you could ask yourself, quite reasonably, whether you want to remain without influence in the journey you are taking.   

 

As for the rest of the UK, well apparently Scotland is subsidised by English taxpayers so we would lift that burden from their weary shoulders. Our non-Tory MPs are considered a nuisance in the HoC so we would remove that unwanted intrusion in the mother of parliaments (and there are expected to be a lot more of them come the New Year). And our courts have thrown a spanner in the Brexit works that brought a halt to the PM's cunning plan. 

 

See - Scotland out of the UK would solve so many issues. 

 

 

Reasoned arguments well presented, thanks. I watched the latter part of Nicola Sturgeon's campaign kick-off speech and did a wee splutter when she claimed "Scotland is one of the world’s wealthiest countries" even when taken in the context she placed it. I know we have some serious, home-grown talent but so has pretty much every other nation given equal opportunity. However, throwing up the usual 'world class universities' as a validation in an era of broadly acknowledged dumbing down of educational standards, well... it's all a bit of blowing the wee, blue-faced trumpet IMHO.

 

The Tories had apparently forsaken the victories earned under the leadership of Ruth Davidson up in Scotland in 2017 when, after her resignation, they still have only an acting Scottish Conservatives leader and with Jackson Carlaw, a rather faceless one at that.

 

BTW, I find it strange that the graphic that YouGov chose for their Twitter feed doesn't reflect the post-2017 election reality north of the border. I guess their claim to breaking down voting intention '...plus Scotland and Wales' is a tad disingenuous.

 

Scotland the what now?

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

My one word answer.

Brexit 

But Brexit hasn't happened yet so the question still stands unanswered as to what is so irrecoverably broken in the current UNITED KINGDOM that supports the claim "the UK doesn't work well for anybody within it, whether they be English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish" and suggests its days are numbered?

 

At the peril of introducing EU and Brexit tainted comments on a thread about the British Union, I offer that after well over 52 consecutive weekends of gilet juane activity in France, whatever the political or economic course is that they are on, it most definitely doesn't seem to working well for quite a few. However, beyond the odd cross-country march by Brexiteers and a fair turnout of those of the other persuasion in London (I guess they didn't need to walk so far), there a higher degree of social unity on the north side of the Channel.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

no

EU will be same same, UK is not part of Europe, Brits only go there (Europe) for holiday ....

 

Quite a lot go there to live in Spain and France and probably other countries as well.

 

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Deleted post

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Not at all surprised after all the British empire ended after Hong Kong ceased to be a British colony in 1997. Also the decline of British global power. Just a slow demise inevitably. 

A bit like most empires over the centuries, Roman, Moorish, Mongols, China, Spain, France, Germany, UK, the USA  and the EU at some time in the future.

[sawadee1947]

I am sure that aren't only dreams. 

Armageddon will come for UK and my country will be reunited finally and the time of occupation is over. 

We are Europeans and I hope!!! There will be a European Passport in future. ????

[Thomas J]

It will exist but after leaving the European Union the U.K. and France will be members of a new alliance. 

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

I am sure that aren't only dreams. 

Armageddon will come for UK and my country will be reunited finally and the time of occupation is over. 

We are Europeans and I hope!!! There will be a European Passport in future. ????

Armageddon is a bit extreme for me - my dream for the future of the British isles is where each of the constituent countries is supportive of its neighbours, and generally acts in all our shared interests, but is respectful of the differences in culture and opinion that clearly exist across borders; a British Scandinavia, if you will. 

[BritManToo]

"United Kingdom might not exist in a decade"

I suspect I might not exist in a decade either.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

 

I suspect I might not exist in a decade either.

Sooner if we have anything to do with it 

[beautifulthailand99]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

United Kingdom might not exist in a decade

I suspect I might not exist in a decade either.

#metoo

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Armageddon is a bit extreme for me - my dream for the future of the British isles is where each of the constituent countries is supportive of its neighbours, and generally acts in all our shared interests, but is respectful of the differences in culture and opinion that clearly exist across borders; a British Scandinavia, if you will. 

Without the Danish taxes and Norwegian beer prices I hope. The nymphomaniac Swedish twins can only do so much.

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, NightSky said:

Im a British citizen and tax payer and no one asked me for my opinion on this so called 'poll'

 

Its horse manure.

 

 

 

You should read up on statistical sampling size and selection. 

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

United Kingdom might not exist in a decade

I suspect I might not exist in a decade either.

 

Makes 2 of us!

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

But Brexit hasn't happened yet so the question still stands unanswered as to what is so irrecoverably broken in the current UNITED KINGDOM that supports the claim "the UK doesn't work well for anybody within it, whether they be English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish" and suggests its days are numbered?

 

At the peril of introducing EU and Brexit tainted comments on a thread about the British Union, I offer that after well over 52 consecutive weekends of gilet juane activity in France, whatever the political or economic course is that they are on, it most definitely doesn't seem to working well for quite a few. However, beyond the odd cross-country march by Brexiteers and a fair turnout of those of the other persuasion in London (I guess they didn't need to walk so far), there a higher degree of social unity on the north side of the Channel.

 

Brexit, divisive as it is, is divisive across traditional political parties, families etc.

 

It's being used by the nationalists, especially Sturgeon, as an excuse to try and split the UK.

 

I would remind citizens of the UK that they are British Citizens. Not anything else. Read your passport if confused.

 

The National Socialists. which is what the SNP and Paid Cymru are, want independence so they can establish their own little fiefdoms. They're as dishonest and self interested as any other politician. 

 

Wonder how Scotland and Sturgeon would react if the Shetland's and Orkneys, where SNP is particularly welcome, voted to remain in the UK should there be a split? Or Fife declared itself and independent Kingdom?

 

Or South Wales wanted to be separate from North Wales?

 

The Irish nationalists are different. They want to leave the UK and join Eire. Only they don't seem to realize the people of Eire might not be keen on that idea let alone all the Unionists in Northern Ireland.

 

It's time the shower of <deleted> was kicked out of parliament and replaced by MP's of all parties who understand they're governed by the law as well as anyone else.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

I would remind citizens of the UK that they are British Citizens. Not anything else.

I've always thought of myself as English.

In my experience, Scots always refer to themselves as Scottish.

[beautifulthailand99]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've always thought of myself as English.

In my experience, Scots always refer to themselves as Scottish.

I am a citizen of the world and therefore a citizen of nowhere.

 

I viscerally dislike nationalism, which I believe ultimately leads to war, as former French President Francois Mitterrand rightly observed in his final speech to the European Parliament. Whether in the guise of “America first” or Brexit, nationalism goes beyond asserting a right to self-determination based on a shared geography or ethnicity. It involves a dangerous collective sense of superiority over other tribes, races, creeds or religions.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-britain-made-me-a-citizen-of-nowhere/

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

Quite a lot go there to live in Spain and France and probably other countries as well.

 

 

 

yes, they move to Europe and spend their retirement in Europe as opposed to in the UK . . .

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Makes 2 of us!

+ 1

[nauseus]

When I was young I had a polio vaccine. Should have had the pollio one too. Sick of 'em.

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Brexit, divisive as it is, is divisive across traditional political parties, families etc.

 

It's being used by the nationalists, especially Sturgeon, as an excuse to try and split the UK.

 

I would remind citizens of the UK that they are British Citizens. Not anything else. Read your passport if confused.

 

The National Socialists. which is what the SNP and Paid Cymru are, want independence so they can establish their own little fiefdoms. They're as dishonest and self interested as any other politician. 

 

Wonder how Scotland and Sturgeon would react if the Shetland's and Orkneys, where SNP is particularly welcome, voted to remain in the UK should there be a split? Or Fife declared itself and independent Kingdom?

 

Or South Wales wanted to be separate from North Wales?

 

The Irish nationalists are different. They want to leave the UK and join Eire. Only they don't seem to realize the people of Eire might not be keen on that idea let alone all the Unionists in Northern Ireland.

 

It's time the shower of <deleted> was kicked out of parliament and replaced by MP's of all parties who understand they're governed by the law as well as anyone else.

I guess here is as good a place as any to explain my 'tail wags the dog' which surfaced a few pages ago...

 

England has 55M people yet is the only home nation without it's own Parliament, indeed moves are afoot to carve it up into regions in the hope that the English won't notice. This cannot be right.

 

England gave the world 'Common law'. a concept that was adopted around the world & yet has been eroded in the very place in which it started thanks to the likes of B-liar as seen by the lightening speed/blatant bias in which Gina Miller was fast tracked while others have to wait years or get fobbed off at the high port without so much as a hearing. For as long as England remains voiceless or divided into regions the English will remain muted (or at least that seems to be the plan). 

 

The remainder of the UK have had their own Parliaments for 20 years (B-liar/appeasement), enabling a combined population totalling less than half of the 55M to ride rough-shod over the English in absolutely everything.

 

I for one don't like it & cannot believe how the English sleep-walked into such a ridiculous position.

[melvinmelvin]

re the islands up north;

 

what I read in between is that there are movements in the Shetlands arguing

that the islands should aim at going it alone, ie leaving both UK and Scotland behind

 

nowadays its fashionable making one's own country;

the islands

belgium splitting

the guys in barcelona and surroundings

also the guys up north in spain

southern  thailand

nigeria/biafra

quebec

as well as a bunch of others that I cannot be bothered remembering right now

 

 

[Salerno]

You forgot Cornwall 

[ratcatcher]

                                     

                THE UNTIED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN & NORTHERN IRELAND ? 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, rhyddid said:

The next immediate future will be , Scots independence, then Irish, until UK will break apart and all the small independents countries will re join EU as they too small to handle ! Well done Brexiters !

Assuming that they can meet the financial requirements.

 

How tragic for the people of those countries if they leave the UK and then find that they cannot join the EU for a few years.

 

Do you really believe that for instance, Scotland or Wales, can leave the UK and 3 months later become a full member of the EU?

 

What will happen if the country cannot meet the Copenhagen criteria and has left the UK? I suggest that you read up on what your country needs to achieve before you take many further steps.

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/how-do-countries-join-the-eu/

 

A country wishing to join the EU submits a membership application to the European Council, which asks the European Commission to assess whether the applicant can meet the Copenhagen criteria. If the Commission thinks so, the European Council agrees on a framework for negotiations with the candidate country. Membership negotiations cannot start until all EU governments agree.

Negotiations encompass 35 policy areas, known as chapters, covering all current EU legislation. Not all chapters are opened at the same time and the speed of negotiations depends on how quickly the candidate country can adopt EU legislation and fulfill the benchmark conditions set out by the EU. No negotiations on a chapter can be closed until every EU government is satisfied. The negotiation process is only concluded once every chapter has been closed.

Once negotiations are complete, the candidate country signs an an Accession treaty, setting out when it will formally join the EU. This treaty has to be approved by all governments, the European Commission and the European Parliament. Each EU member state also has to ratify the treaty.

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Assuming that they can meet the financial requirements.

 

How tragic for the people of those countries if they leave the UK and then find that they cannot join the EU for a few years.

 

Do you really believe that for instance, Scotland or Wales, can leave the UK and 3 months later become a full member of the EU?

 

What will happen if the country cannot meet the Copenhagen criteria and has left the UK? I suggest that you read up on what your country needs to achieve before you take many further steps.

 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/how-do-countries-join-the-eu/

 

A country wishing to join the EU submits a membership application to the European Council, which asks the European Commission to assess whether the applicant can meet the Copenhagen criteria. If the Commission thinks so, the European Council agrees on a framework for negotiations with the candidate country. Membership negotiations cannot start until all EU governments agree.

Negotiations encompass 35 policy areas, known as chapters, covering all current EU legislation. Not all chapters are opened at the same time and the speed of negotiations depends on how quickly the candidate country can adopt EU legislation and fulfill the benchmark conditions set out by the EU. No negotiations on a chapter can be closed until every EU government is satisfied. The negotiation process is only concluded once every chapter has been closed.

Once negotiations are complete, the candidate country signs an an Accession treaty, setting out when it will formally join the EU. This treaty has to be approved by all governments, the European Commission and the European Parliament. Each EU member state also has to ratify the treaty.

You are assuming that this would be the wishes of the Scottish people. While it is true that there was a majority vote to remain in the EU, I saw estimates that as many as 30% of SNP voters were also in favour of Brexit - there is considerable overlap.

 

But even if we either choose not to join the EU or we find the process of joining slower than anticipated, why would this be a reason not to seek independence? 

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, rhyddid said:

The next immediate future will be , Scots independence, then Irish, until UK will break apart and all the small independents countries will re join EU as they too small to handle ! Well done Brexiters !

Then London should become a super city-State like Singapore on steroids and free itself from the clutches of the rest of England. Build a wall around  it and to defend itself from the hordes that will seek to enter this  golden land. The rest of the left-behind country can do what it wants. The starving masses will be useful for cheap labour that robots cannot do and those cap-doffers and knee-crawlers might come in handy as they will cause no trouble and do what they are told. 

 

Economy
With a gross value added of $546.4 billion, London’s economy would be roughly equal in size to that of Sweden, and would be the 22nd largest in the world. That’s right: we’d have the same monetary clout as a national economy founded almost entirely on meatballs, flat pack furniture, and hotels made of ice. Of course, the likelihood is that we’d join the Eurozone -- support for the EU is higher in London than anywhere else in the UK, so we’d probably be using the same currency as the Germans too.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/london/what-london-would-be-like-as-a-country

 

[nauseus]

42 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Then London should become a super city-State like Singapore on steroids and free itself from the clutches of the rest of England. Build a wall around  it and to defend itself from the hordes that will seek to enter this  golden land. The rest of the left-behind country can do what it wants. The starving masses will be useful for cheap labour that robots cannot do and those cap-doffers and knee-crawlers might come in handy as they will cause no trouble and do what they are told. 

 

Economy
With a gross value added of $546.4 billion, London’s economy would be roughly equal in size to that of Sweden, and would be the 22nd largest in the world. That’s right: we’d have the same monetary clout as a national economy founded almost entirely on meatballs, flat pack furniture, and hotels made of ice. Of course, the likelihood is that we’d join the Eurozone -- support for the EU is higher in London than anywhere else in the UK, so we’d probably be using the same currency as the Germans too.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/london/what-london-would-be-like-as-a-country

 

It's getting late.

[tebee]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You are assuming that this would be the wishes of the Scottish people. While it is true that there was a majority vote to remain in the EU, I saw estimates that as many as 30% of SNP voters were also in favour of Brexit - there is considerable overlap.

 

But even if we either choose not to join the EU or we find the process of joining slower than anticipated, why would this be a reason not to seek independence? 

They were in favour of brexit because they could see it would be the route to an independent Scotland.

 

This is something the DUP were too stupid to realize about NI

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, Salerno said:

You forgot Cornwall 

And East Pakis.... sorry, Bangladesh.