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swissie

Indian Visitors/the caste system

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Referring to the many visitors from India. I have noticed that they prefer to travel in groups.
As the "caste-system" seems to be well and alive in India, does that mean that Indian group-travellers must belong to the same caste when on Holiday in Thailand within their group? How do "Indian-Run Hotels/Restaurants" in Thailand handle the "cast-issue"?


Or is the caste-system "de-activated" when travelling outside of India?


I am not aware of any Indian posters here, that could easily answer this question, but I could imagine that there are possibly some Farangs here that have lived in India and could shed some light on this.


If I should receive no answers here, I will not hesitate to ask in one of the many Indian Restaurants in Pattaya on my next visit. I consider Indians as an easy-going crowd, confident that they will answer my question freely. Especially after I mention to them that my ancestors never colonised anyone or anything anywhere.
God this is good, coming close to black British Humor.:wink:


Amazingly, all countries seem to have a "cast-system" but only consisting of 2 castes:
The "haves" and the "not haves". Quite simple. The Indian caste-system is far more diversified, thus more interesting.

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The two caste system is definatley in play within the Indian restaurants throughout Thailand, consisting of the one caste that makes a good ruby and the other caste that can't.

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I would tend to consider that people in general, with no regard to their nationality, colour, ethnicity etc etc...would primarily be more inclined to evolve within their social status circles....and maybe the caste issue would be a secondary criteria...  the rich don't mix with the rags and same for the rags who cannot mix with the rich...

 

India has quite a few rich and mega rich,  who evolve in specific circles, where the average Cheap Charlie's do not have the means to look out for them and complain that they are sharing straws....🤣

 

 

Edited by observer90210

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25 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

would primarily be more inclined to evolve within their social status circles....and maybe the caste issue would be a secondary criteria.

One and the same. Social groups are organised by caste. Officially banned in india but still widely practised. Based on yours, your father's and your ancestors occupation, so wealth does enter into it.

 

4 castes + untouchables (dunny cleaners). Probably won't find many from the upper castes in Thailand. Prefer Sigapore, New York, Paris, London. You won't find many from the lowest caste/untouchables. Couldn't afford to travel. Vast majority from the Vaisha caste, farmers, traders, merchants, etc.

 

Very similar to the caste system in the UK which has 5 castes, upper, upper middle, middle, working and lower. According to UN statistics, the UK is the most class concious society in the Western world.

 

Interestingly, it was the British Raj, that formalised and brought into law the caste system in India. Even the word "caste" was brought to India by European colonists, being the portugese word casta, race, lineage, breed.

 

Also worth remembering that many of the "Indians" you see here aren't Indians at all but are Moslem Pakistanis or Bangladeshis.

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1 hour ago, swissie said:

As the "caste-system" seems to be well and alive in Indi

Just my opinion (having never been to India) I would say India is an extremely diverse country with questionable borders that are political more than cultural and comprising of multiple ethnicities. I think what we're calling the caste system is the perspective of one of the ethnic groups in relation to the other and probably the result of being forced to share the same political borders.

 

We don't call it a caste system in the United States but there is clearly a social order with whites (and now east Asians) on top and blacks on the bottom. Visit any city and you'll see the bad parts of town are mostly black and lowest paid jobs filled by mostly blacks or Latin Americans.

 

So my point, is it really correct to say India has a caste system or are we unfairly judging them by a standard that we wouldn't apply to other countries? As a thought experiment wouldn't the caste system go away magically if the borders were redrawn? 

 

My personal opinion is India probably won't last in its current form and break into smaller regions that better reflect the ethnic groups.

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26 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Just my opinion (having never been to India) I would say India is an extremely diverse country with questionable borders that are political more than cultural and comprising of multiple ethnicities. I think what we're calling the caste system is the perspective of one of the ethnic groups in relation to the other and probably the result of being forced to share the same political borders.

 

We don't call it a caste system in the United States but there is clearly a social order with whites (and now east Asians) on top and blacks on the bottom. Visit any city and you'll see the bad parts of town are mostly black and lowest paid jobs filled by mostly blacks or Latin Americans.

 

So my point, is it really correct to say India has a caste system or are we unfairly judging them by a standard that we wouldn't apply to other countries? As a thought experiment wouldn't the caste system go away magically if the borders were redrawn? 

 

My personal opinion is India probably won't last in its current form and break into smaller regions that better reflect the ethnic groups.

Thats what India used to be all the different states were independent the last to join The Republic of India was Goa

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39 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I think what we're calling the caste system is the perspective of one of the ethnic groups in relation to the other and probably the result of being forced to share the same political borders.

 

Not in any way shape or form. It's based on the Hindu religion. 80% of Indians are Hindus and spread throughout India. 14% of Indians are Moslem and there are border disputes based on religeon/ethnicity but not the caste system.

 

Interestingly, Islam was brought to India by the Moguls, who conquered India and ruled it for absolutely yonks, leaving Moslems being regarded, generally, as amongst the upper classes.

 

 

Edited by DannyCarlton
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6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Not in any way shape or form. It's based on the Hindu religion. 80% of Indians are Hindus and spread throughout India. 14% of Indians are Moslem and there are border disputes based on religeon/ethnicity but not the caste system.

 

There's at least 2 different groups in the country which are visibly very different and as I understood it those were at least 2 of the castes. Are there any Brahmins that have jet black skin for example?

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11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Not in any way shape or form. It's based on the Hindu religion. 80% of Indians are Hindus and spread throughout India. 14% of Indians are Moslem and there are border disputes based on religeon/ethnicity but not the caste system.

 

Interestingly, Islam was brought to India by the Moguls, who conquered India and ruled it for absolutely yonks, leaving Moslems being regarded, generally, as amongst the upper classes.

 

 

Hence the Taj Mahal was built

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Come to think of it isn't Thailand similar? Just watching the news and politics I would say the upper class is lighter skin and more Chinese in appearance than the average Thai I see in the north and especially in the North East.

 

Politics in the US is breaking down along ethnic lines also with the Republicans becoming the de-facto white people after the Democrats decided in 2010 to abandon the white working class as their primary constitute.

 

Looking at the patterns I have to assume India is the same.

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1 minute ago, genericptr said:

Come to think of it isn't Thailand similar? Just watching the news and politics I would say the upper class is lighter skin and more Chinese in appearance than the average Thai I see in the north and especially in the North East.

 

Politics in the US is breaking down along ethnic lines also with the Republicans becoming the de-facto white people after the Democrats decided in 2010 to abandon the white working class as their primary constitute.

 

Looking at the patterns I have to assume India is the same.

It's true that in India dark skin is looked down upon, just the same as Thailand. In Thailand, it's associated with people who work in the fields, lower class, baan noak. Not sure about why it's looked down upon in India, possibly the same.

 

Why is it looked down upon in Western countries, such as the US? Just racism, pure and simple. Absolutely disgusting. Trust me, we're all the same under the skin.

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About 195,000 Indian Thais have full Thai citizenship, mainly in the cities could be more

A Tamil community has been around since the 1860s. Most of the Indians arrived in the last century, notably from Tamil Nadu. Tamil Nadu is an ancient state in India, a lot of Tamil people came during the Chola period. Some others came from Punjab, Rajasthan and some from Gujarat. Buddhism and Hinduism originally arrived in Thailand from India and spread over the years.

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49 minutes ago, genericptr said:

We don't call it a caste system in the United States but there is clearly a social order with whites (and now east Asians) on top and blacks on the bottom. Visit any city and you'll see the bad parts of town are mostly black and lowest paid jobs filled by mostly blacks or Latin Americans.

 

A Caste system is not a class system. But good deflection.  :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Buddhism and Hinduism originally arrived in Thailand from India and spread over the years.

More so Buddhism than Hinduism. Fortunately it didn't completely supplant the original religeon of Thailand, Animism. The oldest religion in the world and global. Very similar to Shamanism in the US. If I were to adopt a religion, it would certainly be that, similar to Druidism in the UK, worship of palnts and animals and all that is nature + our ancestors.

 

My wife pays as much, if not more, tribute to Jao Thi as she does Buddah.

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1 minute ago, LomSak27 said:

 

A Caste system is not a class system. But good deflection.  :thumbsup:

It's exactly what it is. Nice try but no cigar.

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