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Indian Visitors/the caste system

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got it here in Thailand, skin whitener is a billion baht business, if one is light skinned they are considered, middle class, if one is dark skinned they are thought of as a lower class, as in their stupid little minds, (for example) a dark skinned female is thought of as one who works in the fields, pretty sad realy, next time you go into a decent hotel the receptionist will have a white pasty face, like she has daubed flour on it, , dark skin for me any day of the week

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15 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

got it here in Thailand, skin whitener is a billion baht business, if one is light skinned they are considered, middle class, if one is dark skinned they are thought of as a lower class, as in their stupid little minds, (for example) a dark skinned female is thought of as one who works in the fields, pretty sad realy, next time you go into a decent hotel the receptionist will have a white pasty face, like she has daubed flour on it, , dark skin for me any day of the week

In the west it's the same but for darker skin. Girl and some men will pay for tanning studio, tanning cream, suntan spray,  progressively lower protection suncream, and of course the winter trip to an all inclusive resort in the south. If you can afford a trip every winter then you are probably middle class or higher. 

 

My guess is that white men who like darker skinned women do it because it promotes genetic diversity. 

Edited by Tayaout
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53 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Why is it looked down upon in Western countries, such as the US? Just racism, pure and simple. Absolutely disgusting. Trust me, we're all the same under the skin.

I disagree we're all the same under the skin. I'm in South Carolina now and got to be around a sizable black population for the first time in my life (I'm from Colorado and moved to Thailand in my early 20's so not many blacks to be found).

 

These people simply don't have much in common and they don't get along very well from the couple people that were wiling to say so. Basically everyone just keeps to their own parts of towns and only interact in stores where the blacks are about 95% of all service workers.

 

It's also hard to not notice the black areas of town are in bad shape and whites with any options simply avoid these areas and so you get segregation. No one who is alive to today can be blamed for this but I don't think the whites here are racist just because they want to live around white people that share more in common with them.

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48 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

got it here in Thailand, skin whitener is a billion baht business, if one is light skinned they are considered, middle class, if one is dark skinned they are thought of as a lower class, as in their stupid little minds, (for example) a dark skinned female is thought of as one who works in the fields, pretty sad realy, next time you go into a decent hotel the receptionist will have a white pasty face, like she has daubed flour on it, , dark skin for me any day of the week

It doesn't make much sense to me in Thailand because everywhere here is pretty much the same and there isn't a good part of town for the light skinned Thais and bad part of town for the darker skinned once. That's one of the best things about Thailand, that it's not diverse. Compare that with the US where every city is ghettoized into small ethnic enclaves.

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8 hours ago, baansgr said:

The two caste system is definatley in play within the Indian restaurants throughout Thailand, consisting of the one caste that makes a good ruby and the other caste that can't.

Today Indians travelling abroad have only 2 castes, first is rich and middle class and the 2nd is vegetarians and meat eaters. They travel accordingly as per their afordability and eating habits. 

 

Having said that, the caste system in India comes from what jobs Indians use to do in ancient times. Need to understand the type of government and economy in ancient India. Ancient India always had a king as in any part of the world and was not democratic. The economy that time was basic like in any other country. So the jobs available for people were like being a priest, teacher, farmer, soldier , doctor or low level jobs like cleaners. The surnames of these people came from the kind of job they did. For example in the west if your surname is Smith then maybe your ancestors were blacksmiths. In the same way all people doing certain type of jobs carried a surname which defined what jobs they do or their ancestors use to do. Not being a democracy people who did certain jobs were not allowed to do other jobs. For example son of a teacher was not allowed to be a soldier and was supposed to continue his family tradition of being a teacher. Hence each of these groups who did different jobs got divided into different segments which became the caste system. Some people in modern India still carry these surnames and can get differentiated and discriminated because of their surname. But today India is a democracy and everybody is free to do any job. Also the economy is different today. So someone whose ancestors were cleaners today has a good education and has become a software engineer in the silicon valley in San Fransisco will still be carrying this surname which can be a reason for discrimination amongst Indians. But this guy is no longer a cleaner, he earns Usd 200000 a year which is maybe higher than what Americans can earn. So his job now does not fit his caste and hence the colapse of the caste system which is coming soon

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15 hours ago, swissie said:

If I should receive no answers here, I will not hesitate to ask in one of the many Indian Restaurants in Pattaya on my next visit.

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16 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

One and the same. Social groups are organised by caste. Officially banned in india but still widely practised. Based on yours, your father's and your ancestors occupation, so wealth does enter into it.

 

4 castes + untouchables (dunny cleaners). Probably won't find many from the upper castes in Thailand. Prefer Sigapore, New York, Paris, London. You won't find many from the lowest caste/untouchables. Couldn't afford to travel. Vast majority from the Vaisha caste, farmers, traders, merchants, etc.

 

Very similar to the caste system in the UK which has 5 castes, upper, upper middle, middle, working and lower. According to UN statistics, the UK is the most class concious society in the Western world.

 

Interestingly, it was the British Raj, that formalised and brought into law the caste system in India. Even the word "caste" was brought to India by European colonists, being the portugese word casta, race, lineage, breed.

 

Also worth remembering that many of the "Indians" you see here aren't Indians at all but are Moslem Pakistanis or Bangladeshis.

An interesting résumé but do not forget that the caste system goes back to the year 1000 when the hindu kings banished their darker fellow citizens who fled to Europe and form today the Roma or what you may better understand by the word gypsies. So I guess the Raj was not fully at fault on this one.

 

To keep thing short and simple, I still belive that in many nations and cultures, the rich don't mix with the poor. Caste does not have much to do in this day, as money buys status, regardless of education or social family status background. They are called the "nouveau riches" sometimes.

 

Edited by observer90210

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Don’t we have a subtle caste system in the West? Wot can tell how elite someone is by the way in wot they dress, their behaviour, their language and the gramma wot they use? 


And if that fails we have can move to Thailand a have special visa that tells us! 

 

I agree with Beverly Hills 90210 above... money buys status. Class is something else, but you don’t have to be born with it. 

 


 


 

 

Edited by richard_smith237

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On 11/10/2019 at 7:51 AM, Sanjay Jaybhay said:

Today Indians travelling abroad have only 2 castes, first is rich and middle class and the 2nd is vegetarians and meat eaters. They travel accordingly as per their afordability and eating habits. 

 

Having said that, the caste system in India comes from what jobs Indians use to do in ancient times. Need to understand the type of government and economy in ancient India. Ancient India always had a king as in any part of the world and was not democratic. The economy that time was basic like in any other country. So the jobs available for people were like being a priest, teacher, farmer, soldier , doctor or low level jobs like cleaners. The surnames of these people came from the kind of job they did. For example in the west if your surname is Smith then maybe your ancestors were blacksmiths. In the same way all people doing certain type of jobs carried a surname which defined what jobs they do or their ancestors use to do. Not being a democracy people who did certain jobs were not allowed to do other jobs. For example son of a teacher was not allowed to be a soldier and was supposed to continue his family tradition of being a teacher. Hence each of these groups who did different jobs got divided into different segments which became the caste system. Some people in modern India still carry these surnames and can get differentiated and discriminated because of their surname. But today India is a democracy and everybody is free to do any job. Also the economy is different today. So someone whose ancestors were cleaners today has a good education and has become a software engineer in the silicon valley in San Fransisco will still be carrying this surname which can be a reason for discrimination amongst Indians. But this guy is no longer a cleaner, he earns Usd 200000 a year which is maybe higher than what Americans can earn. So his job now does not fit his caste and hence the colapse of the caste system which is coming soon.

Well, we seem to have at least one Indian Poster on TVF. Thanks for responding. Your description of the caste-system is in accordance to what I have learned about it.


I would still be be interested in:
Do those individual groups that travel to Thailand consist of persons belonging to different castes (within the same group) or do those groups consist of only one particular caste?
And:
How about Indian owned Hotels/Restaurants in Thailand? Does the caste-system play any role in those places?

 

Your comment: "Today Indians travelling abroad have only 2 castes, first is rich and middle class and the 2nd is vegetarians and meat eaters. They travel accordingly as per their afordability and eating habits" would indicate that the traditional caste-system is mostly "de-activated" when travelling outside of India. Correct?

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On 11/9/2019 at 4:54 PM, genericptr said:

Come to think of it isn't Thailand similar? Just watching the news and politics I would say the upper class is lighter skin and more Chinese in appearance than the average Thai I see in the north and especially in the North East.

 

Politics in the US is breaking down along ethnic lines also with the Republicans becoming the de-facto white people after the Democrats decided in 2010 to abandon the white working class as their primary constitute.

 

Looking at the patterns I have to assume India is the same.

well the Thais sure seem to be going the white route.

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