Given latest (apparently) squeeze on OA extensions I'm reviewing options

[gavlar]

Am currently on OA (retirment) extension with multi re entry permit until March 2020.

In short term I will be returning to UK in December and booked to return Thailand mid January using my re entry permit. 

Does anyone know if I will be prevented from re entering in January without purchasing the new worthless insurance requirement.

 

Long term,  given I currently spend 3 X 60 day "holidays" in Thailand with my partner and (pre school)Thai/UK son and then they spend similar in UK, is it possible for me to simply have 3 X 60 day tourist visas per year, or would that be frowned upon.

 

I went for the OA and subsequent extensions originally, as the plan was to retire full time here in a few years time and thought get it started early so any changes likely to be "grandfathered".

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be happening with the 800k/400k and the latest diabolical insurance requirement is simply just another "nail" that now says maybe we would be better full time in Uk.

Having spent time today going through the various (useless/expensive) policies I really feel for those caught in this trap and while I love my time in Thailand, at least I still have options.

Many thanks in advance for replies to my 2 questions above...

Gavlar 

 

[LivinLOS]

General thought is a re-entry permit is likely to ne honored, its had to see how they could deny that. 

I also am in and out a lot, I avoid tourist visas as I am concerned that over time a build up of them will cause me issues later. 

Are you married ?? Could you get a non imm O for marriage or retirement ?? 

[AussieBob18]

I am looking at doing the same, and I have a mate who has been doing that for some years and now has to change from an O-A Visa as he cannot get insurance (too old).  Assuming you are married to a Thai and only want to stay in Thailand for 3 to 10 months at a time each year, then this might apply to you.

 

Get a Multi-entry Non0 Immigration Visa for Marriage (far easier than a retirement Visa);

The Visa is valid for 12 months from issue date and allows for entry and stay up to 90 days at a time.

 

Use that to enter and stay in Thailand for the first 3 months - come back again within the 12 months from issue for another 90 days - and coming back again for 90 days a 3rd time within the 12 months is OK - but any more than 3 is a problem I believe.

 

If you want to stay for more than 90 days at a time, then before the 90 days expires get an extension of your permission to stay for another 60 days - that gives you 5 months stay.  If you then come back again later before the 12 months expires you will get another 90 days - and another 60 days extension is OK too.  2 lots of 5 months stays - as long as second entry is before the 12 months Visa expires. 

 

If you want to stay for more than the 90 + 60 days (5 months), then just before the 60 days extension expires, leave the country for a quick holiday (few days) and re-enter (Land or Air) and you will get another 90 days (for a total of 8 months), and you can then also get another extension for 60 days (for a net total of 10 months - less those few days overseas).

 

However long you do stay, then when you return to UK, you can then apply for a new ME Non-O Visa (marriage) after the first ME Non-O Visa expires.  No need for 90 day reporting, no real need for TM30, no need for annual extension problems.

 

For someone who is married to a Thai and wants to stay in Thailand for about 6-9 months or so each year (like myself), this appears to be the best solution at this point in time.  But dont tell everyone or they might crack down on that too ????

 

[scubascuba3]

i would have thought 3x60 day tourist visas is the way to go.

 

If it turns out it's a problem, reassess then

[gavlar]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

General thought is a re-entry permit is likely to ne honored, its had to see how they could deny that. 

I also am in and out a lot, I avoid tourist visas as I am concerned that over time a build up of them will cause me issues later. 

Are you married ?? Could you get a non imm O for marriage or retirement ?? 

Hi LivinLOS,

Apologies,  should have said not married-yet-.

Although one can't help but think that surely this is going to eventually apply to that visa category as well...there simply is no justification for it not too for those over 50.

[gavlar]

21 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i would have thought 3x60 day tourist visas is the way to go.

 

If it turns out it's a problem, reassess then

Thanks...I know there is restrictions on Visa exempt, hopefully 3 x 60 day tourist visas shouldn't be an issue. I'll check with my UK consulate in December and report back. Unless Ubonjoe tells me otherwise....

[gavlar]

50 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

I am looking at doing the same, and I have a mate who has been doing that for some years and now has to change from an O-A Visa as he cannot get insurance (too old).  Assuming you are married to a Thai and only want to stay in Thailand for 3 to 10 months at a time each year, then this might apply to you.

 

Get a Multi-entry Non0 Immigration Visa for Marriage (far easier than a retirement Visa);

The Visa is valid for 12 months from issue date and allows for entry and stay up to 90 days at a time.

 

Use that to enter and stay in Thailand for the first 3 months - come back again within the 12 months from issue for another 90 days - and coming back again for 90 days a 3rd time within the 12 months is OK - but any more than 3 is a problem I believe.

 

If you want to stay for more than 90 days at a time, then before the 90 days expires get an extension of your permission to stay for another 60 days - that gives you 5 months stay.  If you then come back again later before the 12 months expires you will get another 90 days - and another 60 days extension is OK too.  2 lots of 5 months stays - as long as second entry is before the 12 months Visa expires. 

 

If you want to stay for more than the 90 + 60 days (5 months), then just before the 60 days extension expires, leave the country for a quick holiday (few days) and re-enter (Land or Air) and you will get another 90 days (for a total of 8 months), and you can then also get another extension for 60 days (for a net total of 10 months - less those few days overseas).

 

However long you do stay, then when you return to UK, you can then apply for a new ME Non-O Visa (marriage) after the first ME Non-O Visa expires.  No need for 90 day reporting, no real need for TM30, no need for annual extension problems.

 

For someone who is married to a Thai and wants to stay in Thailand for about 6-9 months or so each year (like myself), this appears to be the best solution at this point in time.  But dont tell everyone or they might crack down on that too ????

 

Thanks Aussibob,

Nice one but not married-yet-....but this seems a good option when that day arises. However my gut feeling is this new requirement may get extended to those on O based on marriage and over 50 anyway...only time will tell. It would be helpful to try and plan your future, if the ministry responsible actually took a three/five year view and said here are the changes coming up.

I actually currently have very good insurance for multiple "62 day maximum" trips abroad per annum...but not sure I want to ask my insurance company to sign off that it covers an annual OA retirement visa as it plainly doesn't.

While the cost of this new requirement (at the lowest cover) isn't going to change my life ....maybe when I'm ten years older it will. 

The ones I've read that are supposed to be accepted by immigration, actually dont cover you for anywhere near the cost of a bad event so really it's just a complete waste of money in my current circumstances. 

I should state I absolutely believe in the need for insurance ....but god help those older full time expats with preconditions who it would seem (and their families) are about to be shafted.

[AussieBob18]

9 minutes ago, gavlar said:

Thanks Aussibob,

Nice one but not married-yet-....but this seems a good option when that day arises. However my gut feeling is this new requirement may get extended to those on O based on marriage and over 50 anyway...only time will tell. It would be helpful to try and plan your future, if the ministry responsible actually took a three/five year view and said here are the changes coming up.

I actually currently have very good insurance for multiple "62 day maximum" trips abroad per annum...but not sure I want to ask my insurance company to sign off that it covers an annual OA retirement visa as it plainly doesn't.

While the cost of this new requirement (at the lowest cover) isn't going to change my life ....maybe when I'm ten years older it will. 

The ones I've read that are supposed to be accepted by immigration, actually dont cover you for anywhere near the cost of a bad event so really it's just a complete waste of money in my current circumstances. 

I should state I absolutely believe in the need for insurance ....but god help those older full time expats with preconditions who it would seem (and their families) are about to be shafted.

Yep - using marriage is an option now for long term stays  - but it may not be in the future.  And yes - the Thai health insurance requirement is a scam - just like forcing Expats to put money into a Thai bank account is also a scam. 

 

I believe that as long as you dont do more than 3 Tourist visits for 2 months at a time and all seperated by a few months in one year you should be OK. So a 12 month METV seems the way to go. They cracked down on those using METVs who did border runs every 2 months so they could stay for long periods.  Silly buggers - all they had to do was introduce a rule that says METVs can only be used 3 times in any 12 month period.

 

[Sheryl]

Re-entry permits do not generate a new permission to stay and you already met the conditions for the permission of stay already granted you. So should not be any issue.

 

Further, the police order specifically states that exisitng permissions of stay are exempted until the end date.

 

Whether you will have an issue on next extension at this point is hard to predict, the dust is still settling and contradictory information has been reported from the same Imm offices. Should be much clearer by the time you need to do it, though.

[ubonjoe]

47 minutes ago, gavlar said:

Nice one but not married-yet-....but this seems a good option when that day arises.

Are you the parent of the child you mentioned. If yes you can get non-o visas and extension based upon being his father.

Only 400k baht in the bank is needed or 40k baht of income. 

[scubascuba3]

49 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

So a 12 month METV seems the way to go. They cracked down on those using METVs who did border runs every 2 months so they could stay for long periods.  Silly buggers - all they had to do was introduce a rule that says METVs can only be used 3 times in any 12 month period.

 

•  
• Quote

 

You can't get a 12 month METV, its close to 9 months max, but valid for only 6 months once issued. In the Ops case 3x tourist visas spread over the year sound a better option

[William Osborne]

as a matter of interest how much does this scam insurance cost ?

 

[gavlar]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Re-entry permits do not generate a new permission to stay and you already met the conditions for the permission of stay already granted you. So should not be any issue.

 

Further, the police order specifically states that exisitng permissions of stay are exempted until the end date.

 

Whether you will have an issue on next extension at this point is hard to predict, the dust is still settling and contradictory information has been reported from the same Imm offices. Should be much clearer by the time you need to do it, though.

Many thanks...

[The Fat Controller]

I was warned off exactly what your are planning by the Immigration Officer at BKK two weeks ago !

 

 

[gavlar]

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you the parent of the child you mentioned. If yes you can get non-o visas and extension based upon being his father.

Only 400k baht in the bank is needed or 40k baht of income. 

Yes I have a son...Great...didn't know that, as it was not mentioned on the consulate website in the UK, only an O for married to a Thai.

Can I switch to that reason in Thailand when my next extension on my OA  is due in February or do I have to do it in the UK?

Thanks 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, William Osborne said:

as a matter of interest how much does this scam insurance cost ?

 

 

Pacific Cross is one of the better Thai insurers in that they'll write new policies up to age 75, and then guarantee renewals (albeit at very high prices) into your 90s.

 

Ignore the Standard and Standard Plus rates below as those two are NOT O-A certified. The other types of policies listed and their rates are O-A certified.

 

And then, you can deduct between 25% and 50% off the rack premiums listed below if you're willing to accept annual deductibles on the coverage of 40K, 100K, 200K or 300K.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, gavlar said:

Can I switch to that reason in Thailand when my next extension on my OA  is due in February or do I have to do it in the UK?

Thanks 

You can change the reason for you extension to one for being the parent of a Thai. But some office may say you need to get a single entry non-o visa. Those easy to get at nearby embassies and consulates.

You will first need to legalize your parenthood by way of legitimation to apply for the extension.

Info is here. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

 

[thinktoomuch]

As others have said, you should be able to use your re-entry permit without any issues since this is an existing permission to stay. In fact the new immigration orders specifically stated that they did not affect existing permissions to stay. Unfortunately though no one can say for sure how you will actually be treated at the border.

 

It seems like you have until March next year to decide what to do. I suggest returning as planned in January. If you do have an issue at the boarder ask for a 30-day stamp, then see if you can get that extended at your local immigration office.

 

Keep following the developments. Things will probably change and may eventually be handled at entry points in as consistent a manner as immigration handles anything else. Also Sheryl has previously posted some information from the US embassy that may affect the O-A visa insurance issue. 

 

If things don't look good for the O-A visa you should be able to change to a single entry Non Immigrant O visa when you are back in the UK (or in a neighbouring country). You can then extend this with a retirement extension and get back on that train and see where it takes you.

 

If you are registered as the parent of the Thai child at that time you will have more options.

 

Lastly, I know that you weren't asking about this and it may possibly be unwelcome advice so I will speak for myself. I know that if I were the parent of a child I would not want that child educated in the Thai system. So it would either have to be a really good International School (are there any in Thailand?) or back to the UK to a good school. This is something I would want to factor into my future plans.

 

I hope everything works out for you.

Edited November 10, 2019 by thinktoomuch

[AussieBob18]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You can't get a 12 month METV, its close to 9 months max, but valid for only 6 months once issued. In the Ops case 3x tourist visas spread over the year sound a better option

3. Non-Immigrant Visa type "O" (For Dependent, Spouse and family visit and spouse of Thai national)

Purpose of Visit:

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to visit their family in Thailand. There are 2 categories of a Non-Immigrant “O” Visa: Single Entry and Multiple Entries.

---

Additional required documents:

• A proof of relationships such as marriage certificate or birth certificate.
• A confirmation letter from your spouse or family member with copy of their Thai ID card and house registration.
• A copy of the visa or work permit of a spouse or parent who is currently working in Thailand

---

The validity of a Visa

Single Entry:   The validity of a visa is 3 months from the date of issue.

Multiple Entries: The validity of a visa is 12 months from the date of issue.

---

Period of Stay

Travelers will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 90 days unless he or she has a residence permit.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/sydney/en/other/96010-NON-IMMIGRANT-VISA.html

 

[UKresonant]

6 hours ago, gavlar said:

 

Long term,  given I currently spend 3 X 60 day "holidays" in Thailand with my partner and (pre school)Thai/UK son and then they spend similar in UK, is it possible for me to simply have 3 X

60 day tourist visas per year, or would that be frowned upon.

My father will be using 3 x tourist visas per year now, so let's hope it is not frowned upon. ( He used to get two TV at a time under the old system, then he has had Multi-entry non-O ME but his longest trip here was 62 days). So he has being doing 3x59day trips for years now. But now will just go to the consulate every time he is back.

The London embassy website does seem to be saying the 60 day visa is correct to visit friends and family <60days.

 

It gets more complicated once the kid is at school!

 

I enquired about Thai health insurance a few months ago, and because I was not sure to be here more than 180 days a year, they did not think they could offer me a policy. 

 

Not going out the UK more than 90 days at a time seems to be my priority.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by UKresonant

[treetops]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

3. Non-Immigrant Visa type "O" (For Dependent, Spouse and family visit and spouse of Thai national)

Purpose of Visit:

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to visit their family in Thailand. There are 2 categories of a Non-Immigrant “O” Visa: Single Entry and Multiple Entries.

---

Additional required documents:

• A proof of relationships such as marriage certificate or birth certificate.
• A confirmation letter from your spouse or family member with copy of their Thai ID card and house registration.
• A copy of the visa or work permit of a spouse or parent who is currently working in Thailand

---

The validity of a Visa

Single Entry:   The validity of a visa is 3 months from the date of issue.

Multiple Entries: The validity of a visa is 12 months from the date of issue.

---

Period of Stay

Travelers will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 90 days unless he or she has a residence permit.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/sydney/en/other/96010-NON-IMMIGRANT-VISA.html

 

This info from the Thai Embassy in Australia's website is not helpful to the OP applying in the UK.  The visas available are not the same.

Edited November 10, 2019 by treetops

[Number 6]

You can get an O visa based on your child. Many living here doing similar

Edited November 10, 2019 by Number 6

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, thinktoomuch said:

In fact the new immigration orders specifically stated that they did not affect existing permissions to stay.

Could you please show that text ?? 

 

I am trying to compile a list of all the relevant 'detail' parts of the orders and I have heard this but have not seen it. I agree it should be implied, but not seen as you say it specifically stated. 

 

EDIT :: Found it 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by LivinLOS

[thinktoomuch]

45 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Could you please show that text ?? 

 

I am trying to compile a list of all the relevant 'detail' parts of the orders and I have heard this but have not seen it. I agree it should be implied, but not seen as you say it specifically stated. 

From Order of the Royal Thai Police no. 548 / 2562.

 

I interpret this section to mean that any permission to stay granted prior to October 31st 2019 is not invalidated on or after October 31st. So the immigration police won't clap you in irons at your next 90 day report. They won't come to your apartment and deport you because you don't have insurance, etc, etc. You are fine until you have to obtain a new permission to stay.

 

A re-entry stamp allows you to keep your existing permission to stay alive when you leave the country. Will all immigration officers honour it? Who knows.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't select text from the orders posted in the Police Orders section of this website so I have attached screenshots instead. Hopefully everyone will be able to see them.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by thinktoomuch

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Pacific Cross is one of the better Thai insurers in that they'll write new policies up to age 75, and then guarantee renewals (albeit at very high prices) into your 90s.

 

Standard plan is not approved for O-A visa?

 

I wonder how many retirees can afford the premium plan.

 

The older one gets, the more the premium fees which will make life tougher.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, EricTh said:

 

Standard plan is not approved for O-A visa?

 

I wonder how many retirees can afford the premium plan.

 

The older one gets, the more the premium fees which will make life tougher.

 

Pacific Cross has said, and their chart above shows, that their Standard and Standard Plus plans are NOT certified for the O-A program. But their Standard Extra is.

 

The temporary solution, of course, is to get out of any O-A visa connection and into a different type of visa. How long that approach will remain a viable alternative, who knows...

 

 

[gavlar]

4 hours ago, thinktoomuch said:

As others have said, you should be able to use your re-entry permit without any issues since this is an existing permission to stay. In fact the new immigration orders specifically stated that they did not affect existing permissions to stay. Unfortunately though no one can say for sure how you will actually be treated at the border.

 

It seems like you have until March next year to decide what to do. I suggest returning as planned in January. If you do have an issue at the boarder ask for a 30-day stamp, then see if you can get that extended at your local immigration office.

 

Keep following the developments. Things will probably change and may eventually be handled at entry points in as consistent a manner as immigration handles anything else. Also Sheryl has previously posted some information from the US embassy that may affect the O-A visa insurance issue. 

 

If things don't look good for the O-A visa you should be able to change to a single entry Non Immigrant O visa when you are back in the UK (or in a neighbouring country). You can then extend this with a retirement extension and get back on that train and see where it takes you.

 

If you are registered as the parent of the Thai child at that time you will have more options.

 

Lastly, I know that you weren't asking about this and it may possibly be unwelcome advice so I will speak for myself. I know that if I were the parent of a child I would not want that child educated in the Thai system. So it would either have to be a really good International School (are there any in Thailand?) or back to the UK to a good school. This is something I would want to factor into my future plans.

 

I hope everything works out for you.

Many thanks for the sound advice on all counts,  I must confess your last point is also under deep discussion currently with my partner...

[gavlar]

11 minutes ago, gavlar said:

Many thanks for the sound advice on all counts,  I must confess your last point is also under deep discussion currently with my partner...

Sometimes this forum can get a bit testy and negative but anytime I have sought help and guidance you guys have always come through for me and I want you to know it is much appreciated ...I hope at some point in the future to be able to provide similar wise counsel to others in need of it. 

[AussieBob18]

9 hours ago, treetops said:

This info from the Thai Embassy in Australia's website is not helpful to the OP applying in the UK.  The visas available are not the same.

You missed a point I made in an earlier post where I said '...dont know what Visas are available in UK, but in Aus.......'

I guess the first 'challenger' meant to say what you pointed out - that the UK does not have that Visa available - which in itself is a bit surprising. 

[thinktoomuch]

22 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

I guess the first 'challenger' meant to say what you pointed out - that the UK does not have that Visa available - which in itself is a bit surprising. 

Multiple Entry Non-immigrant O visas used to be available in the UK until the E-Visa system went live there in the middle of June this year.

 

I believe that it is the same for all embassies using that system. We can only hope that the previous variety of visas will return sometime soon.