Popular Post Sheryl Posted November 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2019 8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said: I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves when it comes to any future health insurance changes for retirees and those married to a Thai. The way I see it is, the government recently put in changes with regard to the retirement extension, i.e. as usual, have your 800,000 in the bank 3 months beforehand, but now you cannot touch 400,000 of it, from my understanding for 6 months, that said, it appears that they have done this to show that if anyone gets ill, it doesn't fall back on the Thai government, so one has to have enough money in the bank to cover oneself for hospital treatment. What most haven't seen is that, no one is being forced to have an insurance policy of any sort and those too old to get cover, would have 400,000 in the bank for 6 months, in the event of being hospitalised. So in essence, everyone is covered, self insured so to speak. A) You comply with the amended regulation, i.e. have the usual 800,000 in the bank, keep 400,000 in it for 6 months in case you get sick so you can cover the hospital cost, or part thereof it, and you get to stay in Thailand. B) What A shows us that you do not lose any money on purchasing any insurance policy, i.e. if you can get one and we know the older ones cannot get cover, so you get to use the 400,000 baht after 6 months, whereas if it was the other way around, it would have GONE to the insurance company if they enforced it, i.e. that retirees had to get an insurance policy, in other words, it's a win/win. The above said, were this might change is when those who don't have the money and use an agent, who then need hospital treatment and cannot pay the bills because the money was only put in to show immigration that the farang had the money, then was taken out straight afterwards, will in no doubt shine a loophole on this and the government might say, ok, we are now enforcing that you take out private health cover which could and would have an impact on everyone, in particular, those too old to get cover, those without the money to stay in the country, and the corrupt immigration officials, and agents, so it would be a wide ranging sword cutting off a lot of heads. C) With regard to the marriage extension, all I can see at worst case scenario is that they increase the 400,000 in the bank to equal the retirement extension, i.e. 800,000, again no insurance policy required. So to sum this up, what I believe the Thai government have done is forced farangs to cover themselves, sort of self insuring by having 400,000 in the bank for 6 months, me personally, I don't think its a bad thing, i.e. it takes the pressure off of the Thai government who in the end would have to foot the bill, and are making sure that farangs have enough money in the bank in case of an emergency IMO. it is a complete misunderstanding that the 400K is there for medical expenses. Use it as such and your permission to stay is voided. If the insurance provision applies to you, money in the bank -- no matter how large an amount -- is not at this time an acceptable substitute. Which is a big problem for anyone over 75 since there are no Immigration approved policies available for them. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sheryl said: it is a complete misunderstanding that the 400K is there for medical expenses. Use it as such and your permission to stay is voided.. Says you. It is a reasonable assumption to make in the absence of any other reason for leaving 400,000THB in an account. Oh, there is a very good reason, Immigration want to screw with people’s budgets, if you believe that then you belong to the brigade who feel that we don’t deserve to be in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, Sheryl said: it is a complete misunderstanding that the 400K is there for medical expenses. Use it as such and your permission to stay is voided. If the insurance provision applies to you, money in the bank -- no matter how large an amount -- is not at this time an acceptable substitute. Which is a big problem for anyone over 75 since there are no Immigration approved policies available for them. I learn something everyday, thanks Sheryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, tgeezer said: Says you. It is a reasonable assumption to make in the absence of any other reason for leaving 400,000THB in an account. Oh, there is a very good reason, Immigration want to screw with people’s budgets, if you believe that then you belong to the brigade who feel that we don’t deserve to be in this country. Well you're free to spend it but your next extension will be ruined. Add to that the recent theory that NEW O visas for retirement are being phased out, that would mean either leaving Thailand or going back to your home country to apply for an O-A visa with required insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sheryl Posted November 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, tgeezer said: Says you. It is a reasonable assumption to make in the absence of any other reason for leaving 400,000THB in an account. Oh, there is a very good reason, Immigration want to screw with people’s budgets, if you believe that then you belong to the brigade who feel that we don’t deserve to be in this country. The relevant police order clearly states that the balance can never drip below 400K. That is hardly consistent with it being there to use for medical expenses. Same police order clearly shows that people using the 65k a month income month are not required to keep 400K in the bank. Why would that be if the intent is to have people self insure? (and what kind of self insurance is it that can never be used?) The rules about seasoning and now minimum balance have evolved in response to the fact that people who don't really meet the required financial keep managing to get extensions anyhow. It is not an effective response since it does nto address the true cause (agents and corrupt IOs) but that was the genesis of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 A post with a falsified/doctored quote has been removed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireland32 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I was in Immigration today Udon, The guy stood up and said get a retirement visa , these Marriage visa ‘s are too much paper -work, They really Frown on the marriage visas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gavlar Posted November 11, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said: Regardless, governments everywhere in the world can change immigration rules, more so in Thailand, so if your not prepared for the change or implementation regardless of what we all think, and in particular are not prepared to part with those funds for whatever reason, we have options to leave. I have private health insurance for the family and myself with a pre-existing condition, it costs me 110,000 baht a year, money down the drain some say, sure, but you pay for it for peace of mind, it is not a visa requirement for me, and I am fortunate enough to be under 60, just to get it and always look at recouping it through investments. Some not so fortunate, but we all make our beds, as for those to old to get insurance, one would think that immigration would be relaxed if funds were in an account in Thailand, but hey, I am not their advisor and I don't make up the rules, it is what it is, fair or unfair, we all have choices, no one in Thailand gives a rats and if you don't have a plan B, well your not a planner IMO. I agree with some broad points you raise but the policies on offer are rubbish, to put it midely, particularly for older expats with preconditions. They are completely worthless in many cases. In the case of "saengd" above, and no doubt many others, it is simply nothing more than a charitable donation, which will increase every year. However your last sentence in this scenario is plainly wrong. Does your plan B kick in at a months notice...lucky you if it does. How can you have a plan B with practically zero notice, which if this spreads to other "O" classifications, may result in families being split, firesale of properties, people desparate to stay and using illegal agents and, if caught, potentially being banned from Thailand and their families who rely on them, if not worse. Many expats have invested time and in many cases millions of Baht, have families here etc etc.. Yes it's their country and they can do what they like but give a little more notice, like maybe a year, so people can put a plan B in effect, or maybe have better input from those affected, through our embassys, so exceptions, such as having an extra 400k on top of already required sums in the bank, excludes the requirement. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Langsuan Man Posted November 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2019 What are you supposed to do if you are not in Thailand for the full year ? Buy an insurance policy that is only issued for a year and have six months you can't use ! Does anyone really think that if they return to their home country that these Thai health insurance policies are going to be accepted there ? The whole rub with this insurance scheme (and for once the verb is a correct one) is that they must be issued by a Thai insurance company. That is like telling me I must fly Thai International if I want to come to Thailand I have been here for six moths a year since 2007 on a new O-A Visa every two years and my Blue Cross/ Blue Shield policy has been honored by all hospitals in Thailand, some require me to pay and then get reimbursed and other times, direct billing. But bottom line is I have always been insured I pay $250 a month for Medicare Part B and $250 a month for BC/BS and now the Thais expect me to pay between 51 -85 K Baht more just to come here and spend my money. I think not, the the shine has worn off of Thailand 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post saengd Posted November 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2019 There's an element of blaming the victim in some of these posts, suggesting that people are not good planners or should be better investors to help pay for the insurance is just not appropriate. When I first decided to retire here in 2004 I went to the Thai Embassy in London and asked which visa I should get, they said the O-A visa. From about 2007 onwards I always kept a fair amount of money in Thai. banks and I've never tried to break the rules or play the system. And I've always had a workable Plan B, two years ago I bought a flat in my home country and for the past two years we split our time between the two locations. Today, I don't feel like I'm a victim of this fiasco because my visa doesn't expire until May and I have options. But if my visa were to have expired say this month I most certainly would feel like a victim and quite rightly so. I am angry that the whole debacle has been implemented so poorly and potentially, so very poorly thought through. Yes I could throw 100k at an insurance company to solve the problem in May but why should I have to, this is not my problem and I am not the cause of it, I can afford to pay my hospital bills and I do pay them. So suggesting I am somehow a party to my own predicament is way out of line. If my financial circumstances were different and I was five years older I could easily find myself in the midst of a major humanitarian crisis where my family was being separated and I had nowhere to live, all for reasons that were not of my making, thankfully I'm not in that situation, by the grace of... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 15 hours ago, saengd said: You missed the point, I am in a position to self finance my health care, I don't want to be insured and have no need to be so, all my medical bills will be fully paid. I can get a policy with Pacific Cross that will exclude most things and effectively be worthless, but it will allow me to extend my visa. Are you expecting Thailand to then adapt it's requirements to fit your circumstances and objection to getting yourself insured? The only option is to insist you keep the money tied up in a local bank account ready to cover any hospital bills...or get insurance. It appears Thailand would prefer to support its own insurance industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saengd Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Are you expecting Thailand to then adapt it's requirements to fit your circumstances and objection to getting yourself insured? The only option is to insist you keep the money tied up in a local bank account ready to cover any hospital bills...or get insurance. It appears Thailand would prefer to support its own insurance industry. They don't have to insist, I do that voluntarily. If they said I could do without the need for health insurance if I kept 3 mill. in the bank, I'd say that's just fine with me. BTW I do have health insurance with an overseas insurer but it doesn't meet their requirements, it's catastrophic illness coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, saengd said: They don't have to insist, I do that voluntarily. If they said I could do without the need for health insurance if I kept 3 mill. in the bank, I'd say that's just fine with me. BTW I do have health insurance with an overseas insurer but it doesn't meet their requirements, it's catastrophic illness coverage. Yes they do, this is not a place where people are trusted to their word and given voluntary options! The option of self insurance, based on cash, I agree should be there, but it would involve tying up that 3 million. Perhaps in an escrow account. I believe not many would go for that. It should be simple to meet a 400,000/40,000 insurance requirement, what sticks in the craw is it having to be a select group of Thai insurers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavlar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Yes they do, this is not a place where people are trusted to their word and given voluntary options! The option of self insurance, based on cash, I agree should be there, but it would involve tying up that 3 million. Perhaps in an escrow account. I believe not many would go for that. It should be simple to meet a 400,000/40,000 insurance requirement, what sticks in the craw is it having to be a select group of Thai insurers. Surely it sould involve 400k being tied up....not on trust but proof reqd at next extension...or better still a credit card with proof of credit limit above 400k...both these options are actually better at guaranteeing 400k available for hospital treatment as the policies you are required to buy may not payout depending on preconditions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saengd Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, jacko45k said: Yes they do, this is not a place where people are trusted to their word and given voluntary options! The option of self insurance, based on cash, I agree should be there, but it would involve tying up that 3 million. Perhaps in an escrow account. I believe not many would go for that. It should be simple to meet a 400,000/40,000 insurance requirement, what sticks in the craw is it having to be a select group of Thai insurers. I would happily show Immi. proof every year that my word was good. "this is not a place where people are trusted to their word", which is why they insist of Thai insurers, that prevents visa applicants from using bogus counterfeit insurance certificates which we all know would happen, khao San Road would be jumping! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavlar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, saengd said: I would happily show Immi. proof every year that my word was good. "this is not a place where people are trusted to their word", which is why they insist of Thai insurers, that prevents visa applicants from using bogus counterfeit insurance certificates which we all know would happen, khao San Road would be jumping! Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing...bogus certificates for those staying here illegitimatly...is immigration going to ring the relevant insurance company to check every applicant...would the insurance company even be allowed to disclose info under privacy laws. Or would they buy a policy on monthly payments, go through process and then cancel policy ...as usual it's the honest stayer who gets wacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saengd Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, gavlar said: Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing...bogus certificates for those staying here illegitimatly...is immigration going to ring the relevant insurance company to check every applicant...would the insurance company even be allowed to disclose info under privacy laws. Or would they buy a policy on monthly payments, go through process and then cancel policy ...as usual it's the honest stayer who gets wacked. I believe there is a database of insured people that only the insurance companies can update but that Immi. can inspect. Of course that begets the next question, when will rogue elements of the insurance industry start to go freelance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTXR Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 On 11/10/2019 at 5:47 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Pacific Cross is one of the better Thai insurers in that they'll write new policies up to age 75, and then guarantee renewals (albeit at very high prices) into your 90s. The last time I looked, it seemed Pacific Cross only wrote new policies up to age 75 for the three NonOA-approved plans, not for their standard plans (which have deductibles). I'll check again. I think I remember they only wrote their various standard, premier, maxima, etc. plans up to age 65. I'll check again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 4MyEgo Posted November 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2019 11 hours ago, gavlar said: Does your plan B kick in at a months notice...lucky you if it does. I might be one of the rare ones, but yes plan B can kick in as soon as tickets are booked. An example would be on a recent return trip from Sydney when we stopped off in Phuket for a week, I renewed our kids Australian passports, my wife advised me against it, saying the next trip isn't for at least 18 months, why go to the expense and lose the 18 months of no use of the passports, I looked at her, smiled and said plan B, not another word was said. I have learned in life to duck and weave due to constant changes, and to do my best to have a plan B, C & D, call me paranoid, but I don't like change if I have no control over it. If I had to use plan B and exit, the house would be locked up until such a time we returned, if required, I also am one who only invests as much as one is prepared to lose, i.e. 10% of my worth, in other words, I wouldn't invest anymore than that in a foreign country, especially one that has had so many coupes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gavlar Posted November 12, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said: I might be one of the rare ones, but yes plan B can kick in as soon as tickets are booked. An example would be on a recent return trip from Sydney when we stopped off in Phuket for a week, I renewed our kids Australian passports, my wife advised me against it, saying the next trip isn't for at least 18 months, why go to the expense and lose the 18 months of no use of the passports, I looked at her, smiled and said plan B, not another word was said. I have learned in life to duck and weave due to constant changes, and to do my best to have a plan B, C & D, call me paranoid, but I don't like change if I have no control over it. If I had to use plan B and exit, the house would be locked up until such a time we returned, if required, I also am one who only invests as much as one is prepared to lose, i.e. 10% of my worth, in other words, I wouldn't invest anymore than that in a foreign country, especially one that has had so many coupes. Like you I have a plan B (change to non o) and a plan C (given only stay in Thailand 6 mths a year try tourist visas and D (resettlement to UK including selling house, land etc) and fortunately don't have to act on any of my 3 options until things become clearer and even then not until mid February. If things get clarified fairly quickly, the main point of my post above is that I am sure a fairly low % of those on OA -and possibly even O in the future- have an option except to move on....that in my view is desperately unfair for those with family connections 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, gavlar said: Like you I have a plan B (change to non o) and a plan C (given only stay in Thailand 6 mths a year try tourist visas and D (resettlement to UK including selling house, land etc) and fortunately don't have to act on any of my 3 options until things become clearer and even then not until mid February. If things get clarified fairly quickly, the main point of my post above is that I am sure a fairly low % of those on OA -and possibly even O in the future- have an option except to move on....that in my view is desperately unfair for those with family connections Well done and totally agree with the above. I believe I am also on the O (marriage visa) and as said before have private cover for myself and the family which costs me around 62,500 baht per annum and 45,500 per annum for the family, that said, I am up for renewal in June and the family in January, with the AUD dropping and no doubt the policies increasing, I am looking at reverting back to self insuring, e.g. family renewal being scrapped first, and then mine in June, however will have to monitor things with mine as we go forward because for someone with a pre-existing and turning 60 next birthday, and being in good health, touchwood, I know if immigration extends its O-A requirement to the O, finding insurance cover again with a pre-existing would be trying to say the least and being over 60 adding to the stresses, so might scrap the families and keep mine, and put the amount saved for the families policy to the side. Sure hope they don't extend it to other extensions/visa's and come up with some kind of alternative, like proof at time of extension funds to cover hospital costs in the some of XZY. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, gavlar said: Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing...bogus certificates for those staying here illegitimatly...is immigration going to ring the relevant insurance company to check every applicant...would the insurance company even be allowed to disclose info under privacy laws. Or would they buy a policy on monthly payments, go through process and then cancel policy ...as usual it's the honest stayer who gets wacked. This is why they have a database of all the approved local companies that immigration can check. So its fair to assume thats why the overseas insurers are acceptable 'for the first year only' so you use them to get your visa, arrive, get stamped to the end date of the insurance (evidence shows they are stamping 12 months, against the orders instructions) and then for extension incountry, they will be checking you have approved insurance from the longstay website, which is linked to a database they have verification access to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, JTXR said: The last time I looked, it seemed Pacific Cross only wrote new policies up to age 75 for the three NonOA-approved plans, not for their standard plans (which have deductibles). I'll check again. I think I remember they only wrote their various standard, premier, maxima, etc. plans up to age 65. I'll check again.... Nope, PC will write new policies, including their general public policies, up to and including age 75. The trigger at age 65 and above is a requirement for a medical exam, which isn't typically required for their new policies under age 65. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavlar Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 12:52 PM, 4MyEgo said: Well done and totally agree with the above. I believe I am also on the O (marriage visa) and as said before have private cover for myself and the family which costs me around 62,500 baht per annum and 45,500 per annum for the family, that said, I am up for renewal in June and the family in January, with the AUD dropping and no doubt the policies increasing, I am looking at reverting back to self insuring, e.g. family renewal being scrapped first, and then mine in June, however will have to monitor things with mine as we go forward because for someone with a pre-existing and turning 60 next birthday, and being in good health, touchwood, I know if immigration extends its O-A requirement to the O, finding insurance cover again with a pre-existing would be trying to say the least and being over 60 adding to the stresses, so might scrap the families and keep mine, and put the amount saved for the families policy to the side. Sure hope they don't extend it to other extensions/visa's and come up with some kind of alternative, like proof at time of extension funds to cover hospital costs in the some of XZY. Before you scrap your insurance, if it's a Thai company, check as per Sheryls posts if it is underwritten by one of the accepted companies in the Thai scheme. That way, assuming your original visa was an "O" and this new order rolls out to include "O,s" it will be accepted. In fact if your on an OA originally it would be accepted for that as well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, gavlar said: Before you scrap your insurance, if it's a Thai company, check as per Sheryls posts if it is underwritten by one of the accepted companies in the Thai scheme. That way, assuming your original visa was an "O" and this new order rolls out to include "O,s" it will be accepted. In fact if your on an OA originally it would be accepted for that as well. Thanks, its an overseas company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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