Thai road carnage continues: 73 perish in one day but there may be more

[nausea]

I suppose they'll get fed up with it eventually, not that I hold out much hope, my SO still needs the alarm pinging away to put on her seatbelt. I can understand why amulets are so popular, the only thing you can do in this situation is pray you're not the next victim. Anyway, I ride in a substantial pick-up and only use motorcycles when absolutely necessary. I try to reduce the risk but you're in the hands of God really, if some idiot decides to do his/her thing.

[SteveK]

11 minutes ago, nausea said:

I suppose they'll get fed up with it eventually

Not anytime soon it seems.

[TKDfella]

5 hours ago, dcnx said:

It’s natural selection. 
 

We all know there’s no law enforcement and Thais don’t care if they live or die, so leave them to it. 

 

I never laughed at death until I spent a decade in Thailand. Now I simply don’t care if they all die on the road and spill their brains on the pavement. Their life, their choice. If they don’t care about it, I’m not going to.

Are you saying that all those that died in the accidents were guilty...were they all Thai?

[sunnyboy2018]

I find Thailand is much safer than many other countries I have lived in and driven in. There is something very odd about the way these stats are rolled out without context. For me driving in Saudi and Libya was much more dangerous. Saudi was particularly frightening. But in Thailand driving is easy, mellow and safe so for me there is a disconnect between personal experience and the oft reported 'carnage ' stats. Can anybody explain?

[PatOngo]

5 hours ago, Vacuum said:

No: 1 tip should be to get rid of all amulets in their cars. THEY DO NOT WORK!

Don't burst their bubble!

[PatOngo]

22 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I find Thailand is much safer than many other countries I have lived in and driven in. There is something very odd about the way these stats are rolled out without context. For me driving in Saudi and Libya was much more dangerous. Saudi was particularly frightening. But in Thailand driving is easy, mellow and safe so for me there is a disconnect between personal experience and the oft reported 'carnage ' stats. Can anybody explain?

What amulet are you wearing?

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, happy chappie said:

Who cares,that's 76 people that ain't going to crash into me and do a runner or blame me.i was speaking to a fella last week.3 girls,no license,insurance smashed into the side of him that hard his airbags went off and done quite a bit of damage.they all met at the station to sort it out.he walked in and there were 30 members of the girls family there and some even behind the desk.well he was getting the blame and even his insurance assessor was there blaming him because they had no choice but stick with the thais.

i had a old woman knock my pcx over that was parked up.just gave the old wai said had no money and went off shopping at the market.no problem though as it must of been not my fault and cost 9,200b for headlight and front mudguard.

if I ever have an accident here I will 100% do as they do and drive off.

Maybe the insurance assessor realised the bloke WAS to blame and nothing to do with siding with Thais.

Perhaps he pulled out in front of the bike?

[WhatsNext]

2 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I find Thailand is much safer than many other countries I have lived in and driven in. There is something very odd about the way these stats are rolled out without context. For me driving in Saudi and Libya was much more dangerous. Saudi was particularly frightening. But in Thailand driving is easy, mellow and safe so for me there is a disconnect between personal experience and the oft reported 'carnage ' stats. Can anybody explain?

If you are in a car this is actually true, check out the World Health Organisation statistics. You'll find that Thailand is about as safe as Canada, as long as you are travelling in a car that is.

The moment you sit on a motorbike, everything chages however and thailand turns into a death roulette. 

 

Apart from that, nobody honks their horn, point a middle finger at you or otherwise shows signs of roadrage, that is untill they do and pull out an AK47 or a hatchet.

 

Enjoy thailand till it enjoys you.

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I find Thailand is much safer than many other countries I have lived in and driven in. There is something very odd about the way these stats are rolled out without context. For me driving in Saudi and Libya was much more dangerous. Saudi was particularly frightening. But in Thailand driving is easy, mellow and safe so for me there is a disconnect between personal experience and the oft reported 'carnage ' stats. Can anybody explain?

Quite agree with you. My experience parallels yours having driven a lot in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And in fact the most terrifying journey I've made in the last 5 years was just 2 months ago travelling from Hurghada to Cairo in Egypt . It was an absolute nightmare. By comparison driving and riding in Thailand is a real pleasure.

 

So why the apparent disparity between the the stats and the experience? I think it's all down to where you drive and when you drive. I live in the countryside of Issan and I do my best to avoid rush hour traffic and the school runs, which often coincide of course. And in particular I avoid the main commuter roads between 4 and 6 pm. And I rarely venture out at night. Around here, seeing or even hearing of an accident is a rare event.

 

 

[Bangkokazy]

I look a little cynical at the 73 kill in one day. Means 73 new jobs if all those killed had work.

[Orton Rd]

Film out soon about the cave where 13 might have died, nationwide hoo ha and wall to wall media coverage with politicians pulling out all the stops. Must be at least 13 kids killed every day on motorbikes and nothing effective is ever done about it, strange people.

[Nkpjed]

It’s simple math:

  
little or no education/instruction + zero law enforcement = horrific road carnage

 

[Airbagwill]

The Thaivisa article states numbers but like the government and other posters on this thread make no effort to understand the underlying causes.

Baseless racist slurs against Thai people in general may satisfy personal bigotries but have no place in the debate on road safety in Thailand.

Neither do personal observations of RTIs, or single issue approaches passed off as solutions.

Until the authorities adopt internationally recognised scientifically proven holistic approaches, no significant progress will ever be made.

This isa problem that succesive Thai leaders have failed to understand yet they apparently are unaware of this. They cant solve the problem themselves as they don't know what it is....they need to accept help and advice from outside....... Or cynically continue to accept the unecessary deaths and maiming of thousands of Thai citzens. This in turn is costing the Thai economy trillions of baht every year.

If these deaths were caused by a war there would be public uproar.

[Airbagwill]

12 hours ago, dcnx said:

It’s natural selection

You clearly don't understand evolution.

Natural selection would result in a race of "super-drivers" and road death figures would come tumbling down.

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, nausea said:

I suppose they'll get fed up with it eventually, not that I hold out much hope, my SO still needs the alarm pinging away to put on her seatbelt. I can understand why amulets are so popular, the only thing you can do in this situation is pray you're not the next victim. Anyway, I ride in a substantial pick-up and only use motorcycles when absolutely necessary. I try to reduce the risk but you're in the hands of God really, if some idiot decides to do his/her thing.

completely misunderstand road safety

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, happy chappie said:

Who cares,that's 76 people that ain't going to crash into me and do a runner or blame me.i was speaking to a fella last week.3 girls,no license,insurance smashed into the side of him that hard his airbags went off and done quite a bit of damage.they all met at the station to sort it out.he walked in and there were 30 members of the girls family there and some even behind the desk.well he was getting the blame and even his insurance assessor was there blaming him because they had no choice but stick with the thais.

i had a old woman knock my pcx over that was parked up.just gave the old wai said had no money and went off shopping at the market.no problem though as it must of been not my fault and cost 9,200b for headlight and front mudguard.

if I ever have an accident here I will 100% do as they do and drive off.

Completely irrelevant anecdotal evidence.

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

[Airbagwill]

13 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I have probably seen more accidents here than in all of the rest of the world put together and I lived in India for three years. Almost without fail, every accident I have seen here has been as a result of one or more parties involved having done something incredibly stupid. They don't learn from the carnage, and they don't seem to care about it either. No one does anything whatsoever to even slow it down, especially the cops who are supposed to, but are too busy collecting tea money. Be very careful out there folks, as there is more than one idiot around every corner.

Personal observation is the most inaccurate way of assessing road safety.

For a start, I would suggest you have not factored in confirmation bias.

[Airbagwill]

12 hours ago, Artisi said:

Mai pben rai. 

As others have said, if the individual doesn't care why should I. 

Just look out for No1, if someone want to commit suicide in front of me, problem belong them. 

An extraordinarily blinkered assessment if road injury or death.

The problem in no way belongs to them...it has ramifications far and wide.

Deaths or injuries usually deprive a family or dependants of income and may require government support it insurance pay outs...these in turn require higher taxes or insurance premiums which YOU end up paying.

Road injuries and deaths cost the Thai economy trillions every year and this affects every single person in the country ...Thai or otherwise. 

[Airbagwill]

11 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

You were faster.

Thailand is a role model for what happens when you allow motor vehicles without driving school, laughable driving test on the office yard and close to NO preventive and on the road policing.

Since I did the motorbike license from scratch here, I feel more fearful on Thai roads.

 

 

Yet another example of a single issue perspective.

 

The truth us that countries like USA had ridiculously simple driving tests and Belgium didn't even gave one until the 1970s. Many of the people suggesting driving tests as a solution never took one themselves yet still consider themselves to be "superb" drivers.

 

Whereas educting drivers of ALL vehicles is a good thing, it is on its own not likely to make any significant contribution to the overall picture.

In fact many Thai road users are significantly better at dealing with the conditions here as they are jot encumbered with the the prejudices, arrogance or preconceptions of the average foreign driver 

[gk10002000]

80 per day works out to .04 % of the population per year.  Chicken feed.  Until it starts costing the generals in charge some money out of their pockets, absolutely nothing is going to change

[gk10002000]

The Thai mentality in general does not accept nor believe in responsibility.  Need car to get around, so go get car.  Anything and everything else related to a car is secondary or tertiary or best.  Financial responsibility, accident or damage or death responsibility, safe driving responsibility, etc.  All far removed from the majority of Thai's minds.  Millions upon millions have a small village mentality and think they are driving on a small not busy village road and they can drive in any manner or direction they please

[Dexlowe]

11 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

I used to think that the key to the problem (at least up my way) was that they were taught irresponsible behaviours at a very young age and that there was NO-ONE to provide an alternative role model..not parents,family,government agencies,police or schools.

I still think that way. Every now and then I come across a local whom I admire. But what's the use of "every now and then"? Role models are needed ALL of the time -- a constant refrain of care and attention from EVERYONE so that sense gets inculcated into children from a very young age. (The fractured approach of the government towards safety on the roads is pathetic.) That this doesn't happen speaks volumes about the general state of Thai society, its mores and its compassion. 

[happy chappie]

6 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Maybe the insurance assessor realised the bloke WAS to blame and nothing to do with siding with Thais.

Perhaps he pulled out in front of the bike?

No she run a red light and t boned him.if it had been a truck then the 3 girls would of not been here today.like he said he had no chance against the 30 relatives and obviously some of them know the police.the insurance was a international company not thai.

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I find Thailand is much safer than many other countries I have lived in and driven in. There is something very odd about the way these stats are rolled out without context. For me driving in Saudi and Libya was much more dangerous. Saudi was particularly frightening. But in Thailand driving is easy, mellow and safe so for me there is a disconnect between personal experience and the oft reported 'carnage ' stats. Can anybody explain?

There are a few significant factors.

Firstly the figures obsessed on are road deaths per 100 k. This is only one of a set of criteria used by WHO and the like in assessment of health and safety .

Then one has to bear in mind that in Thailand, the gathering and analysis of stats is little short of a joke. You can read up on how WHO trues its best to make sense of these and nite the huge gaps in their published stats. Nonetheless there is an overall 0icture that emerges and still the media (and Thai authorities) get it wrong.

Using this single type of stat it seems that 80% of Thai road deaths... (Injuries, severe and minor are jot counted) are accounted fir by vulnerable road users. Motorcyclists riders and passengers account for 73% of the total.

Then do a bit of maths and it turns out that drivers and passengers in 4-wheeled private vehicles are at risk of dying to about the sane extent as the average for the USA.

SO ....not quite as dangerous as the media would generally imply.

If you look at deaths per km travelled Thailand's position drops to somewhere round 100th in the world.

Look for the internationally graded injury categories serious and minor..... They aren't available.

Look for the number of reported collisions, they aren't available either.

Look for evaluation, incident by incident...no one is even trained to do this 

Thailand still has an appalling road safety record but without proper stats, analysis or evaluation, it is impossible to even begin an effective road safety program...... However it also gives free rein to those who wish to create misleading perspectives of the reality of self driving in Thailand, which are then amplified through the process of confirmation bias.

[Airbagwill]

12 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

75-100 is about right 

30,000 per year is the external calculations including deaths not at the scene.

Something to be proud of , yet nobody gives a toss

 

Think about all the people who are maimed  & severely injured on top of that. 

 

Saying that you don't see that many peg legs or one armed folk about.

 

So yet again we see the paucity if personal obsrvation

[happy chappie]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Completely irrelevant anecdotal evidence.

Oh really.so it must of been 2 girls and she had a license and insurance and he went through the red light.he didn't get charged,didn't get claims of compensation.the families where there to make sure their angels didn't get in to trouble.

[happy chappie]

17 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

There are a few significant factors.

Firstly the figures obsessed on are road deaths per 100 k. This is only one of a set of criteria used by WHO and the like in assessment of health and safety .

Then one has to bear in mind that in Thailand, the gathering and analysis of stats is little short of a joke. You can read up on how WHO trues its best to make sense of these and nite the huge gaps in their published stats. Nonetheless there is an overall 0icture that emerges and still the media (and Thai authorities) get it wrong.

Using this single type of stat it seems that 80% of Thai road deaths... (Injuries, severe and minor are jot counted) are accounted fir by vulnerable road users. Motorcyclists riders and passengers account for 73% of the total.

Then do a bit of maths and it turns out that drivers and passengers in 4-wheeled private vehicles are at risk of dying to about the sane extent as the average for the USA.

SO ....not quite as dangerous as the media would generally imply.

If you look at deaths per km travelled Thailand's position drops to somewhere round 100th in the world.

Look for the internationally graded injury categories serious and minor..... They aren't available.

Look for the number of reported collisions, they aren't available either.

Look for evaluation, incident by incident...no one is even trained to do this 

Thailand still has an appalling road safety record but without proper stats, analysis or evaluation, it is impossible to even begin an effective road safety program...... However it also gives free rein to those who wish to create misleading perspectives of the reality of self driving in Thailand, which are then amplified through the process of confirmation bias.

And where's your proof that these are not proper stats.i think you have come to your own conclusion that they are false or inaccurate.

[Airbagwill]

11 hours ago, happy chappie said:

if I ever have an accident here I will 100% do as they do and drive off.

They don't, and your misinterpretation of the situation could land you, deservedly, in jail.

If you do ever have an accident the most important thing you can do for yourself is ring your insurance rep.

If you haven't got the number to hand at all times, you are doing yourself a serious disservice.

[gk10002000]

14 hours ago, overherebc said:

Don't so much laugh as just shake my head at the things I see.

Yesterday saw a scooter turning right in front of a car that was going the wrong way on the wrong side of the road.

Luckily the scooter rider was only scatched a bit when the car hit her scooter and she fell off.

At the same X road I've waited to turn right and as soon as I start to move I've had pick-ups and bikes from behind me appear on my right hand side, they just couldn't wait to get in front.

The idea is, go and turn whenever!  They won't drive by a turnout they missed, drive a bit, make a proper turn around then go back and make the turn they missed.  They will jaunt over at the last moment.  Now granted people do that in many countries too.  But the Thais probably look the least before turning.