Thai road carnage continues: 73 perish in one day but there may be more

[Airbagwill]

35 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

And where's your proof that these are not proper stats.i think you have come to your own conclusion that they are false or inaccurate.

Thw very title if this thread illustrates the paucities n statistics gathering in Thailand.

It is repeatedly shown that people who ask for "proof" on forums like this normally either don't understand or don't have an argument themselves. You gave no argument.

You need to get yourself up to speed first.

Firstly I explained the WHO stats and their gaps above...if you want to read how they gather their stats especially in countries like Thailand, then they publish a poper on this in conjunction with their annual road safety reports.

Secondly you need to read up on exactly who provides the stats in Thailand and then who collates and analyses them. So look at primary secondary and tertiary resources. You will like i did, find huge shortcomings here.

Finally you seem unaware of the standard international criteria used for publishing such stats. I referred to these earlier.... I've already pointed out that Thailand does not provide these...e.g. serious and minor injury categories... This is pretty much undusputable .... If you can find such stats for Thailand, then go ahead and publish.....but we will still need to see your resources and methodology.

Un the meantime, i suggest a little research in your part would help.

...and please don't confuse "search" with "research".

 

[Airbagwill]

12 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

The idea is, go and turn whenever!  They won't drive by a turnout they missed, drive a bit, make a proper turn around then go back and make the turn they missed.  They wil l jaunt over at the last moment.  Now granted people do that in many countries too.  But the Thais probably look the least before turning.

totally subjective piece of confirmation bias.

[gk10002000]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

totally subjective piece of confirmation bias.

Yep, absolutely agree.  But I can point to many many video posts on youtube of Thais just barreling through intersections, oblivious seemingly to whatever was going on around them. 

[Airbagwill]

8 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Yep, absolutely agree.  But I can point to many many video posts on youtube of Thais just barreling through intersections, oblivious seemingly to whatever was going on around them. 

You realise that is a classic example of confirmation bias?

I could do the same for Russia or any other country with enough dash cams.

You also need to look at vehicle types and see if they correlate to the stats...e.g. 73% in Thailand should be motorcycles....and then factor in dash cam ownership and internet distribution........ I've even seen videos that are clearly from other countries claiming to be from Thailand... in other words confirmation bias at every turn.

 

[gk10002000]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

You realise that is a classic example of confirmation bias.

I could do the same for Russia or any other country with enough dash cams.

You also needto look at vehicle types an see if they correlate to the stats...e.g. 73% should be motorcycles....and then factor in dash cam ownership and internet distribution........in other words confirmation bias at every turn

 

zzzz. boring.  The driving statistics speak for themselves.  One can believe whatever underlying cause they want.

[Airbagwill]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

zzzz. boring.  The driving statistics speak for themselves.  One can believe whatever underlying cause they want.

I'd suggest that comment perfectly encapsulates the general lack of understanding that permeates this debate on road safety in Thailand.

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

An extraordinarily blinkered assessment if road injury or death.

The problem in no way belongs to them...it has ramifications far and wide.

Deaths or injuries usually deprive a family or dependants of income and may require government support it insurance pay outs...these in turn require higher taxes or insurance premiums which YOU end up paying.

Road injuries and deaths cost the Thai economy trillions every year and this affects every single person in the country ...Thai or otherwise. 

What government support might that be - please tell us all about it. 

 

[Prairieboy]

17 hours ago, tso310 said:

The only positive stat I have seen was back in 2018 (I think) and reported here that the belief that amulets protected you fell from 50% to 30%. 

In reality the amulets and other <deleted> hanging from the rear-view mirror probably cause more accidents then they prevent.  There is a reason that civilized countries do not allow this - distracting and vision blocking are two reasons.

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/thailand-roads-deadly-traffic-accidents-class-inequality-a9071696.html

 

[mikebell]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Tuesday's death toll brought the number of at-the-scene fatalities this month to 597.

That's a big improvement; it averages 'only' 42 a day over the last fortnight.  The police are winning!

[Airbagwill]

7 minutes ago, mikebell said:

That's a big improvement; it averages 'only' 42 a day over the last fortnight.  The police are winning!

The police only play a minor role in road safety

[Artisi]

31 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The police only play a minor role in road safety

Did you miss the irony? 

[essox essox]

19 hours ago, dcnx said:

It’s natural selection. 
 

We all know there’s no law enforcement and Thais don’t care if they live or die, so leave them to it. 

 

I never laughed at death until I spent a decade in Thailand. Now I simply don’t care if they all die on the road and spill their brains on the pavement. Their life, their choice. If they don’t care about it, I’m not going to.

the big problem is that THEY kill people WHO DO NOT WANT TO DIE....with their bad driving habits !!!

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, Artisi said:

What government support might that be - please tell us all about it. 

 

Are you not awarethzt Thailand has 3 healthcare systems and a welfare system that looks after various people including those injured/maimed in RTIs.

Then of course there is the private sector.....but you chose o ignore that?

[Sticky Wicket]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

This topic appears to be about road deaths - my posts ae about road safety and the factors that lead to this and their perception.

How does your post qualify as being on topic?

Then as you admit to not racing my posts I fail to see how you can comment on them. 

It does however explain why so many people are ignorant of the situations surrounding road safety in Thailand

road safety is an oxymoron in Toyland

[samuttodd]

I was talking to my kin back him this morning on facetime,  and I mentioned that the thing I've noticed about highways and larger roads here is that once they get on the main roads,  they will go as fast as they can.   If you see one on your bumper and try to distance yourself by speeding up,   they will ride your <deleted> as fast as you can go   right on your bumper.

 

 

Anymore,   I have opted to ride along with traffic and get out of the way anytime I can.

 

If you are on a bike,  then do not pass people on the left in the moped edge because they'll turn left right in front of you.   

 

Rawong and chok dee.

[Langkawee]

On 11/14/2019 at 12:33 PM, dcnx said:

It’s natural selection. 
 

We all know there’s no law enforcement and Thais don’t care if they live or die, so leave them to it. 

 

I never laughed at death until I spent a decade in Thailand. Now I simply don’t care if they all die on the road and spill their brains on the pavement. Their life, their choice. If they don’t care about it, I’m not going to.

LOS Land of Satan. Watch your back. And the hospital's are set up to scam foreigners and Thais out of trillions of bath. Immediately go to Penang if you need medical help. 

[Langkawee]

13 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Thw very title if this thread illustrates the paucities n statistics gathering in Thailand.

It is repeatedly shown that people who ask for "proof" on forums like this normally either don't understand or don't have an argument themselves. You gave no argument.

You need to get yourself up to speed first.

Firstly I explained the WHO stats and their gaps above...if you want to read how they gather their stats especially in countries like Thailand, then they publish a poper on this in conjunction with their annual road safety reports.

Secondly you need to read up on exactly who provides the stats in Thailand and then who collates and analyses them. So look at primary secondary and tertiary resources. You will like i did, find huge shortcomings here.

Finally you seem unaware of the standard international criteria used for publishing such stats. I referred to these earlier.... I've already pointed out that Thailand does not provide these...e.g. serious and minor injury categories... This is pretty much undusputable .... If you can find such stats for Thailand, then go ahead and publish.....but we will still need to see your resources and methodology.

Un the meantime, i suggest a little research in your part would help.

...and please don't confuse "search" with "research".

 

What country would want to tell another country they are the LOS Land of Satan. 20 years ago they stopped giving gun homicide statistics which then stood at around 25,000 a year. It makes the Muslim insurgency look relatively like a peaceful sanctuary. I think we can conclude Thai people really are in a hurry to die or be imprisoned. But imprisoned of course only if they are poor. Land of the macabre. 

[Moonlover]

15 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yet another example of a single issue perspective.

 

The truth us that countries like USA had ridiculously simple driving tests and Belgium didn't even gave one until the 1970s. Many of the people suggesting driving tests as a solution never took one themselves yet still consider themselves to be "superb" drivers.

 

Whereas educting drivers of ALL vehicles is a good thing, it is on its own not likely to make any significant contribution to the overall picture.

In fact many Thai road users are significantly better at dealing with the conditions here as they are jot encumbered with the the prejudices, arrogance or preconceptions of the average foreign driver 

You do indeed make a very valid point here. I know quite a number of Thais whom I judge to be safe an sensible drivers, without the benefit of extensive lessons and driving tests. My wife's two nieces run their own business which involves driving many thousands of kilometers a year, yet neither have had an accident and I feel quite safe when I travel with them.

 

My own father never had driving lessons or took a test, (it wasn't necessary in his day) yet he drove all his life without an accident. Good driving is as much about common sense and caution as it is about training and passing tests.

 

Whenever the '7 dangerous days' period crops up we see the same statement every single time. 75 to 80% of deaths are motorcycle related. They occur on rural roads and are usually young males. And I'm sure that this applies throughout the year. Therein lies the problem.

 

They are the deaths that skew the stats into these horrific numbers. Take those deaths away and the casualty figures would roughly equate to those of France. And sadly they are also the accidents that get little or no attention. They are not sensational enough to warrant the attention of the press.

 

So the authorities are well aware of the problem but until This country can find a way to address that problem the numbers are not going to change significantly despite all their best efforts.

[Felt 35]

You dont understand the logic by my comment.....well here we go...….what kind of intention can be behind anyone's reason to puff up a situation (in this case bad road safety in Thailand or better no existent safety) which is not only statistically to see but to bee seen by the naked eye 24/7 unless that person can gain something to make it looks better than it is?

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

 

Troll posts and the trolling replies have been removed. 

[Grumpy John]

Because I live in a rural area 25km from Wang Sai Phun which is on the main hwy I can safely say 75% or more of motorcycle riders are unlicensed judging from their riding skills and knowledge of road craft.  How more aren't killed in the district is something of a miracle.  maybe those amulets do work???? ????

[Langkawee]

On 11/14/2019 at 12:33 PM, dcnx said:

It’s natural selection. 
 

We all know there’s no law enforcement and Thais don’t care if they live or die, so leave them to it. 

 

I never laughed at death until I spent a decade in Thailand. Now I simply don’t care if they all die on the road and spill their brains on the pavement. Their life, their choice. If they don’t care about it, I’m not going to.

Its not that they don't care if they live or die, it's that they want to die, same for most road fatalities in the World, research shows the deceased tend to have suicidal tendencies, not just Thais. 

[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

Its not that they don't care if they live or die, it's that they want to die, same for most road fatalities in the World, research shows the deceased tend to have suicidal tendencies, not just Thais. 

The reaction of some on hearing about a death on the road can sometimes just make you wonder.

True story.

Thai lady I knew was telling about her brother who, while on his bike was knocked off by a truck that was turning left. The truck driver realised what he had done and stopped. Where he stopped was blocking a side road so decided to reverse to clear the side road entrance. In doing so he reversed over the guy who had been lying at the side of the road and obviously killed him.

They all, listeners, went into fits of laughter leaving a couple of expats and me speechless.

[mikebell]

On 11/15/2019 at 7:01 AM, Airbagwill said:

The police only play a minor role in road safety

I would go so far as to say the police play NO role in road safety other than to exacerbate the problems.  Their frequent stick-ups cause long tail-backs making impatient drivers (90%) more impatient.

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, overherebc said:

research shows the deceased tend to have suicidal tendencies,

absolute nonsense, there is nothing to suggest that.

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

judging from their riding skills and knowledge of road craft

Unfortunately this is a totally cultural or racist subjective comment

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, mikebell said:

I would go so far as to say the police play NO role in road safety other than to exacerbate the problems.  Their frequent stick-ups cause long tail-backs making impatient drivers (90%) more impatient.

The Thai police are a para-militàry organisation and appear to have little or no training in road safety policing.

It is very likely that the clumsy methods they use actually exacerbate the situation.

The tradition of police acting as judge and jury on top of enforcers represents a serious conflict of interest....as does the very low salary scale.

This is just one example of how far down the wrong road thai road safety has gone.

In order for there to be any significant change, and entirely new police force needs to be recruited and trained to deal with road safety. And this along with major changes in how the laws are written and implemented. Further to this there needs to be a road system that allows these laws to be effective.

This is why simply calling Thai drivers bad is completely irrelevant to the real issues of road safety.

 

[Artisi]

On 11/16/2019 at 8:09 AM, Grumpy John said:

Because I live in a rural area 25km from Wang Sai Phun which is on the main hwy I can safely say 75% or more of motorcycle riders are unlicensed judging from their riding skills and knowledge of road craft.  How more aren't killed in the district is something of a miracle.  maybe those amulets do work???? ????

don't see being unlicensed has anything to do with riding skills or road craft which actually comes down to common sense.

 

[Airbagwill]

45 minutes ago, Artisi said:

common sense.

No such thing...all boils down to a particular subjective perspective.

 

If you want to understand driving sensibilities in Thailand imagine you're in a boat on a river.... it'll all fall into place.......but it is a sense that most foriegners don't have in common with Thai people.

[Airbagwill]

On 11/17/2019 at 11:04 AM, Artisi said:

don't see being unlicensed has anything to do with riding skills or road craft

A good grounding in basic road safety and some driving skills does of course help and reduces idiocy in the first few years of road use.

However if the grounding is good and absorbed then experience will take over from there beneficially. However it is often the case that people are unable to make good use of their training and then start to consider themselves as "experienced" drivers, when in reality their limited ability to make real sense off the environment they drive in, they actually develop and cultivate bad habits, in the mistaken believe they are "good" road users.