Retirement extension via monthly B65K rejected in Khon Kaen

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, rexall said:

Well, if you are not a lawyer, you should be.  

Or a member of the mob.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, john terry1001 said:

But, would the IO still offer the service if no payment was forthcoming?

 

Would 7-11 give you a yoghurt for free?

 

Don´t you see that the man had to go home, get the pictures and once again drive to the office and leave the photos in person? How much would that have been costing. Here an IO is nice and offering to do extra work by giving a line account he can upload his pictures on, The officer after download and print the pictures as well as enter it into his application.

The Immigration Officer did go far beyond the duties, and was beeing very nice and friendly. Why in the world are you calling that a bribe and something illegal? Maybe the Officer did the download and printing at home and took it in the next day and filed it. What do you know?

Complaining about help given, and complaining when no help is given. Then you sorry bunch of people call it hardship. Time for all complainers to grow up and stop beeing such cry babies.

[Matzzon]

49 minutes ago, rexall said:

Mr. Ongo, what is it about that exactly that disturbs you?  

It might be the fact of not having the capital of minimum 800 000 baht when moving to another country might be considered a risky move by some people with the value of planning their life and likes a safe and secure life.

 

Hey, we are talking 800 000 baht? That is something all responsible persons must have as a buffer in a foreign country at the very least.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Matzzon

[Matzzon]

13 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Ah, protection money.

How did you come to that wierd conclusion? Where was any protection needed?

[Sheryl]

18 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Both these, the denial of the combination method and the reports of possible refusals to accept the 65K/month are worrisome. If true, it would mean the screw has just tightened one more notch. 

 

Not by intention on the part of policy makers.  It is clear that both should still be possible. It is implementation insome provinces (not all by any means) that is flawed. And the overall ability of TI to introduce new rules and ensure they are understoof =d and followed, that is and long has been, very sub-optimal.

 

May not matter to those affected but I think it helps to understand that a lot of this is not in fact part of a systemic plan to push us out, as some people have come to feel.

[fourpack]

I believe there is a fair bit of fancy wording in the OP. "Claim"

I notice that when new things come along there is always "claims" of xy and z the recent spate on here of "I was refused" . Just seems a trend to me for "Claims" to come to the fore over changes people don't like or have not researched before going to Immigration thus not getting there required extension and spitting out there proverbial dummy's.

Everyone takes it as read that it's the whole truth honest.

I take it all with a pinch of salt. 

[rexall]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

It might be the fact of not having the capital of minimum 800 000 baht when moving to another country might be considered a risky move by some people with the value of planning their life and likes a safe and secure life.

You are merely rephrasing Mr. Ongo's criticism of people who do not plan well, but you are  not addressing the question: What is it exactly that would disturb Mr. Ongo about it? Sure, it's no secret, many people plan inefficiently, and many would probably be better off not making risky moves as you suggest.  But why is that disturbing to Mr. Ongo?  Is he talking about one of his kids or his best friend or something? Is he expression compassion for those who do not possess the acumen to handle their finances as well as he does?  And if so,  you might think that a little of his compassion might extend to people getting blindsided even while they are attempting to do the right thing.  

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not by intention on the part of policy makers.  It is clear that both should still be possible. It is implementation insome provinces (not all by any means) that is flawed. And the overall ability of TI to introduce new rules and ensure they are understoof =d and followed, that is and long has been, very sub-optimal.

 

May not matter to those affected but I think it helps to understand that a lot of this is not in fact part of a systemic plan to push us out, as some people have come to feel.

Spot on! The only thing is, like you wrote, different offices are taking the liberty to do what they want. That´s why I´ve spoken earlier about that everything that is wrong should be reported. There is a hotline for these kind of things too. It´s just that people must use it, instead of constantly complaining and talk about to soon coming doomsday, where all the white and black foreigners in Thailand will be wiped out by the power of all the "so called new" Immigration Laws. 

[john terry1001]

25 minutes ago, rexall said:

I set that up incorrectly.  The one guy in question was applying for a marriage extension, not retirement. Same issue, though; he wanted to use the monthly income method rather than B400K deposit. [As an aside, do the rules for marriage extensions require offshore money or can it be from any source?] Sorry, I don't think he was using a different Imm office. He was posting on the forum in Khon Kaen so assumed that is where he applied first.  My bad.  Sorry for introducing confusion into an already confusing topic.  I am confirming this info now.

If you're applying for a marriage extension and also have a work permit and income from working in Thailand, plus are paying tax on that income, it can be used as (part of) the monthly 40k baht requirement. Any shortfall required from your income must however must be transferred every month from outside Thailand.

 

 I also understand that because it's possible income earned in Thailand is sometimes erratic, the rules say 'an average of 40k baht per month......' to allow for the occasional shortfall. I don't know if that 'average' part of the rule also applies to income transferred in from outside Thailand though.

 

 Hopefully, Ubonjoe will come on here to explain the rules much clearer than I have.

[Matzzon]

5 minutes ago, rexall said:

You are merely rephrasing Mr. Ongo's criticism of people who do not plan well, but you are  not addressing the question: What is it exactly that would disturb Mr. Ongo about it? Sure, it's no secret, many people plan inefficiently, and many would probably be better off not making risky moves as you suggest.  But why is that disturbing to Mr. Ongo?  Is he talking about one of his kids or his best friend or something? Is he expression compassion for those who do not possess the acumen to handle their finances as well as he does?  And if so,  you might think that a little of his compassion might extend to people getting blindsided even while they are attempting to do the right thing.  

I wrote: irresponsible, risky as 2 things that might be disturbing. I can also add the foolishness of a person chosing to move and reside in a country without that small amount of money. 

Ok, I know, for some not small. Buy, hey, nobody said that every single beeing is suitable and able to settle in another country just because their neighbour could.

 

Regarding compassion for then not can use the option monthly income in Khon Kaen, if it´s any truth in that, they have my full compassion. However, my stance about the need of a minimum of 800k baht also still stands. If it was up to me, the amount would be at a minimum of 2M baht. Don´t get me wrong. Not for be able to stay, but for be able to have a good security in your new life.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Matzzon

[rexall]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not by intention on the part of policy makers.  It is clear that both should still be possible. It is implementation insome provinces (not all by any means) that is flawed. And the overall ability of TI to introduce new rules and ensure they are understoof =d and followed, that is and long has been, very sub-optimal.

 

May not matter to those affected but I think it helps to understand that a lot of this is not in fact part of a systemic plan to push us out, as some people have come to feel.

No, of course it isn't a "systematic plan" as in a bunch guys sitting in a smoke filled room brainstorming ways they can slowly turn the screws to reduce the presence of retirees. Stuff like this is rarely a conspiracy in so many words. However, you are correct, it doesn't matter to those affected, nor should it.  Oh, wll, I am not going to hold anyone responsible because it is just the system out of control.  Phooey on that!

[rexall]

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Spot on! The only thing is, like you wrote, different offices are taking the liberty to do what they want. 

Oh, that little thing.  Is that all it is?  I feel better already!

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, rexall said:

Oh, that little thing.  Is that all it is?  I feel better already!

How good! I am happy for you. However, did you read the rest? What is needed to be done by all, for anything to ever change. Complaining on Thai Visa Forum just don´t cut it.

[rexall]

5 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I wrote: irresponsible, risky as 2 things that might be disturbing. I can also add the foolishness of a person chosing to move and reside in a country without that small amount of money. 

 

Stipulating that your observations about people's foolishness may be correct, I ask again, why would that disturb you?  And, BTW, I was addressing that to Mr. Ongo, not you necessarily. 

Sorry, I just cannot embrace your brand of faux Stoicism and Horatio Algerism.  However, while I do not embrace your views, neither am I disturbed about them.

[Kelsall]

Last year in Chiang Mai the visa service I use told me the best way to get the visa extension was with the 800k method, if you have the money.  I had always done the embassy letter but did as she suggested and had no trouble.  Others I know did fine with the 800k method, no problems.  I know one who had trouble with the 65k route, but was able to get it done eventually after supplying much documentation.  Another has had to go out of the country and start over as one of the monthly deposits was not coded as FTT and Immigration wouldn't budge. 

 

So the message from Immigration is clear:  Go the 800k route if you have the money.

[rexall]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

How good! I am happy for you. However, did you read the rest? What is needed to be done by all, for anything to ever change. Complaining on Thai Visa Forum just don´t cut it.

I am  not so sure about that. One thing that Asian cultures hate and abhor is transparency, and whether it is ThaiVisa or some other medium, the internet may make doing business as usual increasingly more difficult for the bureaucracy. 

Or not.

[zydeco]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

If it was up to me, the amount would be at a minimum of 2M baht. Don´t get me wrong. Not for be able to stay, but for be able to have a good security in your new life.

I can think of a dozen ways your 2 million baht in the bank could get vaporized. Security? This isn't a financial topic, but ask Venezuelans about security. The one and only thing that should be secure is the fixed requirement. If the 800K is there--and the bank doesn't fail--we should be credited with fulfilling our obligation. If something else comes along to make your daily funds relatively worthless, that is another matter. Buy gold. That is the only relative financial security available in Thailand. Ask the people who lived through 1997-1999.

Edited November 15, 2019 by zydeco

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, rexall said:

I ask again, why would that disturb you?

Clearly you cannot read and understand. What disturbs me is in my opinion that people are foolish enough to take such a big risk of moving without an enough big buffer.
 

3 minutes ago, rexall said:

Sorry, I just cannot embrace your brand of faux Stoicism and Horatio Algerism.

When using such fine language, one wuold think that you do not miss to understand my simple and bold language. 

Anyway, I let you take the rest with Mr. Ongo. 

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, rexall said:

I am  not so sure about that. One thing that Asian cultures hate and abhor is transparency, and whether it is ThaiVisa or some other medium, the internet may make doing business as usual increasingly more difficult for the bureaucracy. 

Or not.

Get your point. However, I would go more towards not. Other mediums like Facebook maybe might work better. Thai Visa, is like a more closed community to foreigners, which do not make it same powerful for others than us.

[rexall]

19 minutes ago, fourpack said:

I believe there is a fair bit of fancy wording in the OP. "Claim"

I notice that when new things come along there is always "claims" of xy and z the recent spate on here of "I was refused" . Just seems a trend to me for "Claims" to come to the fore over changes people don't like or have not researched before going to Immigration thus not getting there required extension and spitting out there proverbial dummy's.

Everyone takes it as read that it's the whole truth honest.

I take it all with a pinch of salt. 

I was the one who used the word "claimed" and I used it deliberately to be clear that I was reporting what the OPs said, and not something I could absolutely establish as a fact. I was not suggesting I thought there was something suspect in what the OPs said. Quite the contrary, I consider their reports to be reliable.  This thread has been fun, but the point of starting it in the first place was to try to get a feel for how reliable the information actually is (or isn't) and to what extent, if any, there are similar incidents out there. This is not complaining, it is something that potentially has an impact on the lives a lots of people.

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I can think of a dozen ways your 2 million baht in the bank could get vaporized. Security? This isn't a financial topic, but ask Venezuelans about security. The one and only thing that should be secure is the fixed requirement. If the 800K is there--and the bank doesn't fail--we should be credited with fulfilling our obligation. If something else comes along to make your daily funds relatively worthless, that is another matter. Buy gold. That is the only relative financial security available in Thailand. Ask the people who lived through 1997-1999.

Oh, 1997-1999. Then I was running 3 companies, so I guess asking will be overrated. 

As you and I are well aware of, is that it´s very hard to protect yourself against an international or even a national economic crasch. There are things to do, to be able to minmize the pain inflicted. However, I guess it all comes down to a choice. Are you willing to risk a little and place the money asked for in Thailand, or are you better off in another place that do not ask? In this case that must be a factor taken into the economical situation and possible losses vs gains.

[Vacuum]

6 minutes ago, dikcwakka said:

make no mistake they dont call it the emmigration department for nothing, sole qualification for getting a job there is to truly and thoroughly HATE farang

You're wrong. The only way to get a job in RTP/Immigration, is to hand over a brown envelope.

[bigginhill]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Ah, protection money.

The op forgot the photos, he offered a solution where he would do a favour and print them then add to op,s file, thus saving a round trip. A mutual exchange, offered not imposed. I would have accepted in his shoes, seeing he had forgotton the photos. A solution whereby all are satisfied, I see no problem

[EricTh]

52 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

 

 

So the message from Immigration is clear:  Go the 800k route if you have the money.

 

However, those people who don't have 800k tied up in the bank use the monthly deposit method because they can recycle the money back.

 

Most people won't spend all 65k in a month so they recycle it back even though there are transfer cost involved. It's a loophole so 800k in Thai bank plugs the loophole.

[KeeTua]

In September I was successful with getting my 1 year extension at Khon Kaen based on 65K/month for 12 months.

 

At first the IO said I needed 800K deposit in the bank. I said that 65K/month was allowed. We went back and forth politely until the IO got up and went to the IO in the small office at the rear, the one that signs off on the extensions.

 

Came back and said OK but they were very firm that it needed to be 12 months which I was able to prove. All clearly international transfers.

 

My suggestion is to dress and speak politely. If there is some problem, trying to convince the IO to ask the boss will go better if they have some respect for you.

 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I never said that I approve or even value corruption.

 

I also don't write the law and of course am entitled to my opinion on overstayers, but perhaps you didn't read my post reply on overstayers further down the post, might want to refresh, "up to you".

 

I saw his gesture as a win/win, i.e. saving me a 3 hour return trip, which would have wasted my time, fuel into the environment, and my pocket, and contributing to their Xmas fund saved me all of the above, for 500 baht, chicken feed, he could have told me to come back, that would have peeeed me off.

 

I see no corruption here, a business transaction maybe, besides I once had to pay them 1,500 baht to come to our place to take photos together, as they have to pay for their own fuel, I confirmed this with a friend of a friend who has a brother-in-law who is in immigration, a bit like the cops having to purchase their own guns.

 

I consider myself an opportunist, if it works and saves me time and is for a small amount of money, sure thing, but to have to pay an agent 20k-30k to stay in the country because I don't have the funds, well that's got to hurt, but each to their own, and that's what I call getting lynched using your word.

Of course my post wasn't for you, but for Matzzon

read it again slowly and you should see it.

Cheers

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, bigginhill said:

The op forgot the photos, he offered a solution where he would do a favour and print them then add to op,s file, thus saving a round trip. A mutual exchange, offered not imposed. I would have accepted in his shoes, seeing he had forgotton the photos. A solution whereby all are satisfied, I see no problem

You should read\understand better

1/ it's not the OP who forgot the photo

2/ offered was not imposed, but was not free

''it was a Friday, and I was told that I could send new ones in to the I/O on his LINE profile, he would download and print them off and put them with the application, i.e. if I would like to donate something to their Xmas fund, of which I did as it would have been a 3 hour return trip, money spent on fuel and my time etc etc, wife didn't want too....lol, so the 500 baht was worth it IMO, in other words he did me a favor as opposed to me returning on Monday.''

i understand you should have accepted too, but if you don't see any problem

you don't know the definition of corruption (You can form a club with Matzzon who doesn't seem to understand it also) because it's not a random guys offering a random service. he is a public agent solliciting a bribe to do something in direct relation with his public job. Normaly if the IO want to be correct he should give to the user the internet local office link to send the photos FOR FREE.

You get it now or not yet?

Edited November 15, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[rexall]

3 hours ago, KeeTua said:

In September I was successful with getting my 1 year extension at Khon Kaen based on 65K/month for 12 months.

 

At first the IO said I needed 800K deposit in the bank. I said that 65K/month was allowed. We went back and forth politely until the IO got up and went to the IO in the small office at the rear, the one that signs off on the extensions.

 

Came back and said OK but they were very firm that it needed to be 12 months which I was able to prove. All clearly international transfers.

 

My suggestion is to dress and speak politely. If there is some problem, trying to convince the IO to ask the boss will go better if they have some respect for you.

 

Is it OK if I post this on the Khon Kaen Forum?  I won't use your name if you don't want.

[madmen]

8 hours ago, rexall said:

Just the past week two applicants were flatly refused the B65K method even though they claim

And the friend of a friend posts continue to dominate followed by the inevitable 20 "they don't want us here" posts

 

Can we just stick to first person reports from now on !! How can the report be questioned if the owner is not even in the room?

Edited November 15, 2019 by madmen

[Skallywag]

7 hours ago, zydeco said:

Living in servile fear is no way to go through your retirement years. Maintaining human dignity and respect for yourself, to me, is more important than bowing and scraping and hoping some immigration office will have anything but contempt for you because you did so. 

 

Moving to any foreign country with nothing in assets but one monthly pension check to your name would likely cause you to be "living in... fear" in any foreign country, not just Thailand.