wwest5829 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, DrJack54 said: I was not being pedantic. I was stating that it was a stat dec not an income letter. I am only relating what an official stated to me at au embassy. If she is wrong so be it. Her explanation... " stat dec is only for use WITHIN au" IF that's the case then cannot be provided for Thai imm purposes. She went on to say that the au embassy should never have been providing them. I'm only relating what I was told. BTW I had the impression she had been in job for some years and in fact had a trainee with her. Aside from that I do not believe that embassies are equipped or qualified to check and verify incomes. This year there was some doubt whether I would be given an Extension of Stay as one month out of the 12 (from June 2018 onward) fell below the 65,000. Personally I do not fault my American Embassy saying that they cannot or would not be verifying my income. I do not think it is their responsibility. What I do expect from my Embassy is protection from arbitrary and capricious enforcement of Royal Thai government enforcement. Thus I want my and other foreign governments to work diplomatically and forcefully to say that Amy demand for filing a TM-30 after being out of the home province for more than 24 hours is an unwarranted pueden on the foreign citizens freedom of lawful movement (I believe this has been drawn to the Royal Thai governments attention). That the different offices throughout the Kingdom of Thailand enforce their law/regulation consistent with those laws/regulations and not permit local administrators to vary in their enforcement. I would further encourage my Embassy to inform my US State Department of US citizen treatment and institute equitable, reciprocal law/regulations on citizens from Thailand. This recognizes each country has sovereignty but that the citizens of both countries are treated on an equal basis (and yes, that would include price differentiation at any national government facilities ...). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 23 hours ago, zydeco said: Can somebody then compare the letters from Canada and New Zealand to the old letters from the UK, US, and Australia. Are they different? Why don't you do it? Or are you in the same position as everyone else in that it's unlikely that anyone would have access to sample letters from those countries? Bear in mind that the majority of foreign nationals here with retirement extensions probably don't even know about this forum so they're not going to be leaping into action with their letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Thaidream said: Actually the word used in the police order is to certify incomewhich can be done by an applicant self certifying that the information they are attesting to is correct. The other approximate 80 Embassies who provide letters normally view a few documents the applicant presents and has the applicant take an Oath that it is true under penalty of perjury. It appears this is enough for Thai Immigration as they continue to accept these letters from the 80 countries. IMO, if the UK, US and AUS would follow the same scenario as the other Embassies, Thai immigration would accept them right now. No Embassy can go back to the original source-Everyone has Data Protect Laws These Embassies are simply being stubborn; have cost their countries needed income; have irritated Thai immigration and cause hardship for many of their citizens. IMO they have presented flawed arguments to their Home Offices in the hopes they wouldn't have to issue the letters. Even the original statements they issued were similar in nature and show a type of collaboration in the decision to stop these letters. All the infamous 3 had to do was keep issuing the letters and put the onus on Thai immigration whether to accept them or not. Thai Immigration could have easily asked for any added proof to support the letters- such as foreign bank statements; ATM cards and receipts; or letters from pension providers supporting the amount claimed. Let's now see what the Thai powers will do with the Diplomatic Notes- the US Embassy and the EU countries have sent requesting an explanation regarding the medical insurance requirement. Maybe the Embassies can do some good for their citizens. Are you seriously proposing a return to the 2 day camel ride to Bkk for people in their 60s,70s,80s or older so that they can sign a mickey mouse piece of paper that had previously been available by post; having previously been exposed (appearing in person) and widely ridiculed some 15+ years ago? How far is Bkk from CR/CM? Udon?, Haat Yai? How many hours travel time is involved and at what cost inc accommodation? People should think hard before posting. Edited November 17, 2019 by evadgib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Thaidream said: IMO, if the UK, US and AUS would follow the same scenario as the other Embassies, Thai immigration would accept them right now. No Embassy can go back to the original source-Everyone has Data Protect Laws At no time has TI said that they would reject letters from the 3 offending embassies if they continued to produce them. They continued to accept said letters for 6 months after the embassies had discontinued them. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, evadgib said: Are you seriously proposing a return to the 2 day camel ride to Bkk for people in their 60s,70s,80s or older so that they can sign a mickey mouse piece of paper that had previously been available by post; having previously been exposed (appearing in person) and widely ridiculed some 15+ years ago? The British Embassy letters were obtained exclusively by post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgdanson Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, DannyCarlton said: and copies of 3 months bank statements I thought they wanted 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 11:21 AM, UncleMhee said: A whole lot of prefabricated pollywaffle; just as I'd also expect to hear from the Australian Embassy. Perhaps so, but no one is forced to utilize the service of any Embassy, nor to reside in Thailand. There seems to be a misconception that the world revolves around the disgruntled and self-entitled few. If one percieves that the future holds a negative result, then most likely they will achieve that result by their own design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phutoie2 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said: The British Embassy letters were obtained exclusively by post. They certainly were not. Used to be a 3 day trip for me, Embassy, BKB HQ Silom, and the joys of Suan Plu. Always took the boss and had some decent shopping and sight seeing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, fforest1 said: 23 hours ago, zydeco said: Can somebody then compare the letters from Canada and New Zealand to the old letters from the UK, US, and Australia. Are they different? Sir please dont ask hard questions.....The you might make the guys on here who unquestionably support this action uncomfortable... There is no mystery here....There is a ZERO% chance the embassies all thought this idea up at exactly the same time..... Nope this is just good old fashion anti western sentiment....And dont any one try and say its not because if it was not it would have included ALL embassies every last one of them....They got the big 3 ....More western embassies will probably follow later... "Sir please dont ask hard questions.....The you might make the guys on here who unquestionably support this action uncomfortable..." I doubt that you could indicate even one person here who supports the Embassies' cancellation of the service, there may be some who understand the reason that the Embassies did it, though but that is not "unquestionably supporting their decision"! Big difference! "There is no mystery here....There is a ZERO% chance the embassies all thought this idea up at exactly the same time....." You're right, there's no mystery, that's for sure; the reason that they came up with their decisions at that time was that IB made it's requirements known to all the embassies at the same time! "Nope this is just good old fashion anti western sentiment....And dont any one try and say its not because if it was not it would have included ALL embassies every last one of them...." I will. First of all your sentiment is nonsense as every embassy was included, not just western embassies, no embassies were exempt from the requirement. It's just that some embassies seem to be happy to appear to meet the requirements of the IB even if they don't, for the time being. Edited November 17, 2019 by Just Weird 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 18 hours ago, zydeco said: a diplomatic conflict with the US, the UK, and Australia Hahahahahaha… Hardly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Surasak said: I, like any other UK tax payer living in Thailand, can download a statement of my monthly income and tax from the HMRC web site. Why can't the British consulate accept that as proof of my earnings? Or is that too simple? The British Embassy are not the one's who have to accept it, it's Thailand's Immigration Bureau that has to accept it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, evadgib said: People should think hard before posting. I don't believe I said each person needs to travel to the Embassy- they can have the option of going or the option of sending their proof by mail. The Embassy would need to change their wording on their document to indicate the applicant is self certifying and has presented documentation that agrees with what is being self certified. If UK law allows for taking an Oath over the phone or by placing a statement on the form indicating that the applicant is submitting his signature under penalty of perjury that would be fine. There is already a system for all citizens to transfer their funds to Thailand or put money in the bank. If they reinstated the letter, that would be another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 The Austrian Consulate in Pattaya issue a "Letter of Income" for Austrian, Belgian, Dutch, French, German citizens (maybe also for other nationalities I am not aware off). Since a couple of years, they write now "We hereby certify that..." in their letter. I use their services for about 15 years. I still produce the same documents : Copy of my tax income. Copy of the monthly payments done by the Belgian Office of Pensions. Copy of the last 3 months of my Belgian bank statements, showing the amounts transferred by the Office of Pensions. Of course all those documents can be falsified. The Consulate however believe that a very small % will do this, so good people should not be the dupe of the bad ones. Also for ca. 15-20000 Thb one can obtain easely an extension via an agent, with no need to falsify anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 hours ago, DannyCarlton said: British Embassy income letters were verified. US affidavits and Aus stat decs weren't. The British Embassy never verified that the claimed income was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 hours ago, zydeco said: 17 hours ago, evadgib said: 'The Embassy aint doing Nuffink' rolls off the keyboard a little too easily whenever expectation exceeds reality. I see. It's all highly "hush-hush." Actions being taken to improve our lot that we are not in a position to understand or we are too dense to understand. Alright, then, can someone please name something that our embassies have done over the past five to ten years to make our lives easier, either with Thai Immigration or dealing with the embassies themselves? "Alright, then, can someone please name something that our embassies have done over the past five to ten years to make our lives easier..." It is not the Embassy's, or the Government's job, to "make expats lives easier"! Geez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Just Weird said: The British Embassy never verified that the claimed income was correct. They verified it by checking the official documents that you sent with your application. I'm not going to get into an argument with you (which is the real reason for your post) over the semantics of the word "Verification". Lets just say that Thai Immigration are more than happy with the letters from 80 other embassies who carry out verification in the way I have described. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod the Sod Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 12:49 PM, zydeco said: Was it? Why? The UK, as well as the US and Australia, could have simply continued issuing the letters and leave it up to Thai Immigration to accept them or not. What were the "Thai authorities" going to do? Launch an invasion of the embassies? Are the Canadian and New Zealand embassies continuing to issue letters that are accepted by Thai Immigration? If so, are they substantially different from those issued by the US, UK, and Australia? Do they not have privacy laws, too? I am at a loss to understand your thinking. The UK Government, through their Embassy cannot guarantee that your "declared" pension income and sources are actually correct because they do not have the information to do that, yet you think they should anyway..like for the fun of it I guess, or because it is easy to do so,....or because it helps people who maybe have no right to be here to stay regardless, illegally. ALL because we are British and "they" are their Embassy. Your reasoning is that the Thais couldn't do anything really once they had this letter, and so the Embassy should jolly well keep on issuing them for that reason alone, even though they may be completely fraudulent in content. That way the Brits are all OK, life carries on as normal and ignores that fact that a reasonable percentage do not have the minimum level of income required by Thailand if you are to live here. I kind of get a feeling for your view on life. You know, like a Russian justifying stealing a watch from a display stand because "no-one was manning the stand, and so possession of the watch belongs to the person in physical possession of the watch". No wonder the world is going to the dogs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said: Contrary to what some people on this thread claim, I have never heard of anyone providing false income documents to the British Embassy. Zero evidence that this ever took place. Well, zero evidence only to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Just Weird said: It is not the Embassy's, or the Government's job, to "make expats lives easier"! Geez... It's not their job to make life harder either, which is what they did by cancelling the letters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thaidream said: I don't believe I said each person needs to travel to the Embassy 'Stat Dec's' have to be signed in the presence of the person doing the authenticating. Resorting to mail was a nice little earner for as long as it lasted but came unstuck when the host nation tried to strong-arm Embassies into acting as guarantors. Data protection regs in the real world rendered them unable to comply which in turn lead to the current fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Weird Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said: 6 minutes ago, Just Weird said: It is not the Embassy's, or the Government's job, to "make expats lives easier"! Geez... It's not their job to make life harder either, which is what they did by cancelling the letters. You need to address that to the IB, not the Embassy, the Embassy's intention wasn't to make life harder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said: I am at a loss to understand your thinking. The UK Government, through their Embassy cannot guarantee that your "declared" pension income and sources are actually correct because they do not have the information to do that, yet you think they should anyway..like for the fun of it I guess, or because it is easy to do so,....or because it helps people who maybe have no right to be here to stay regardless, illegally. ALL because we are British and "they" are their Embassy. Your reasoning is that the Thais couldn't do anything really once they had this letter, and so the Embassy should jolly well keep on issuing them for that reason alone, even though they may be completely fraudulent in content. That way the Brits are all OK, life carries on as normal and ignores that fact that a reasonable percentage do not have the minimum level of income required by Thailand if you are to live here. I kind of get a feeling for your view on life. You know, like a Russian justifying stealing a watch from a display stand because "no-one was manning the stand, and so possession of the watch belongs to the person in physical possession of the watch". No wonder the world is going to the dogs! Verbiage. My P60’s, backed up by corresponding bank statement evidence, was about as kosher as you can get. Whilst the Embassy didn’t exactly go in hard on due diligence, I would guess that 90% of what crossed their desks was genuine. If the IO’s had half a brain they would know how to evidence monthly income without the need for any embassy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said: and ignores that fact that a reasonable percentage do not have the minimum level of income required by Thailand if you are to live here. You are assuming that British expats forged the documents that they sent to the embassy. I have seen zero evidence that there was even one case of this. An urban myth. British expats who didn't have the required income paid an agent 15k baht to provide a workaround for them. Something they still do. Unaffected by the cessation of the letters. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, evadgib said: 'Stat Dec's' have to be signed in the presence of the person doing the authenticating. Resorting to mail was a nice little earner for as long as it lasted but came unstuck when the host nation tried to strong-arm Embassies into acting as guarantors. Data protection regs in the real world rendered them unable to comply which in turn lead to the current fiasco. So what do the 80 other embassys do to issue their letters. Bearing in mind that countries such as Germany have virtually the same data protection laws as the UK. Edited November 17, 2019 by DannyCarlton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Just Weird said: Well, zero evidence only to you! So you do have evidence. Care to share? Or is it your usual perpetration of urban myths that you have read on TV? Edited November 17, 2019 by DannyCarlton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Just Weird said: You need to address that to the IB, not the Embassy, the Embassy's intention wasn't to make life harder! IB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 5:07 AM, mikebell said: Unfortunately the UK’s Data Protection laws prohibit organisations, including Government departments, from providing personal information to third parties about customer details. This might be a major problem...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thingamabob Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I'm no fan of the embassy here in Bangkok. Too many people doing very little. However, on this question, I understand their case. The author of the letter has written a polite and thorough explanation of the issues involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 On November 16, 2019 at 12:49 PM, zydeco said: s the US and Australia, could have simply continued issuing the letters and leave it up to Thai Immigration to accept them or not. Yes. The US embassy's income affidavit made it clear that the amounts claimed were as stated and sworn to by the applicant and the embassy was not responsible for their accuracy. If Thai immigrations found that unacceptable, that should have been their call. Many of us using that method had backup proof to support the amounts claimed, although the variety of documents and languages providing that proof might have overwhelmed immigrations officers, that too could have been left to officers to accept or reject. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 6 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) I think the OP has no clue as to what purpose an embassy serves. I'm certain they had a good laff about all the income the embassy was abdicating. I'm baffled why is it so hard for people 10-20 years older than me, a lifetime to save, many never married and childless. Supposedly flush pension. Can't bank the 800k? I could literally save that while teaching English here starting at zero in two years. Maybe 18 months and without overtime or weekends. Stop crying and just put the money in the bank. When will this topic cease. ???? Edited November 17, 2019 by Number 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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