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mikebell

Embassy Explanation for Ceasing Immigration letters

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5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I was not being pedantic. I was stating that it was a stat dec not an income letter. I am only relating what an official stated to me at au embassy. If she is wrong so be it. Her explanation... " stat dec is only for use WITHIN au" 

IF that's the case then cannot be provided for Thai imm purposes. She went on to say that the au embassy should never have been providing them. 

I'm only relating what I was told. BTW I had the impression she had been in job for some years and in fact had a trainee with her.

Aside from that I do not believe that embassies are equipped or qualified to check and verify incomes. 

This year there was some doubt whether I would be given an Extension of Stay as one month out of the 12 (from June 2018 onward) fell below the 65,000. Personally I do not fault my American Embassy saying that they cannot  or would not be verifying my income. I do not think it is their responsibility. What I do expect from my Embassy is protection from arbitrary and capricious enforcement of Royal Thai government enforcement. Thus I want my and other foreign governments to work diplomatically and forcefully to say that Amy demand for filing a TM-30 after being out of the home province for more than 24 hours is an unwarranted pueden on the foreign citizens freedom of lawful movement (I believe this has been drawn to the Royal Thai governments attention). That the different offices throughout the Kingdom of Thailand enforce their law/regulation consistent with those laws/regulations and not permit local administrators to vary in their enforcement. I would further encourage my Embassy to inform my US State Department of US citizen treatment and institute equitable, reciprocal law/regulations on citizens from Thailand. This recognizes each country has sovereignty but that the citizens of both countries are treated on an equal basis (and yes, that would include price differentiation at any national government facilities ...).

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23 hours ago, zydeco said:

Can somebody then compare the letters from Canada and New Zealand to the old letters from the UK, US, and Australia. Are they different? 

Why don't you do it?  Or are you in the same position as everyone else in that it's unlikely that anyone would have access to sample letters from those countries?   Bear in mind that the majority of foreign nationals here with retirement extensions probably don't even know about this forum so they're not going to be leaping into action with their letters.

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14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually the word used in the police order is to certify  incomewhich can be done by an applicant self certifying that the information they are attesting to is correct.  The other approximate 80 Embassies who provide letters normally view a few documents the applicant presents and has the applicant take an Oath that it is true under penalty of perjury.

 

It appears this is enough for Thai Immigration as they continue to accept these letters from the 80 countries.

 

IMO, if the UK, US and AUS  would follow the same scenario as the other Embassies, Thai immigration would accept them right now. No Embassy can go back to the original source-Everyone has Data Protect  Laws 

 

These Embassies are simply being stubborn; have cost their countries needed income; have irritated Thai immigration and cause hardship for many of their citizens. IMO they have presented  flawed arguments to their Home Offices in the hopes they wouldn't have to  issue the letters. Even the original statements they issued were similar in nature and show a type of collaboration in the decision to stop these letters.

 

All the infamous 3 had to do was keep issuing the letters and put the onus on Thai immigration whether to accept them or not.  Thai Immigration could have easily asked for any added proof to support the letters- such as foreign bank statements; ATM cards and receipts; or letters from pension providers supporting the amount claimed.

 

Let's now see what the  Thai powers will do with the Diplomatic Notes- the US Embassy and the EU  countries have sent requesting an explanation regarding the medical insurance requirement.   Maybe the Embassies can do some good for their citizens.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously proposing a return to the 2 day camel ride to Bkk for people in their 60s,70s,80s or older so that they can sign a mickey mouse piece of paper that had previously been available by post; having previously been exposed (appearing in person) and widely ridiculed some 15+ years ago?

 

How far is Bkk from CR/CM? Udon?, Haat Yai? How many hours travel time is involved and at what cost inc accommodation?

 

People should think hard before posting.

Edited by evadgib

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1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Are you seriously proposing a return to the 2 day camel ride to Bkk for people in their 60s,70s,80s or older so that they can sign a mickey mouse piece of paper that had previously been available by post; having previously been exposed (appearing in person) and widely ridiculed some 15+ years ago?

The British Embassy letters were obtained exclusively by post.

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5 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

and copies of 3 months bank statements

I thought they wanted 12.

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:21 AM, UncleMhee said:

A whole lot of prefabricated pollywaffle; just as I'd also expect to hear from the Australian Embassy.

Perhaps so, but no one is forced to utilize the service of any Embassy, nor to reside in Thailand. There seems to be a misconception that the world revolves around the disgruntled and self-entitled few.

 

If one percieves that the future holds a negative result, then most likely they will achieve that result by their own design.

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9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

The British Embassy letters were obtained exclusively by post.

They certainly were not. Used to be a 3 day trip for me, Embassy, BKB HQ Silom, and the joys of Suan Plu. Always took the boss and had some decent shopping and sight seeing. 

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19 hours ago, fforest1 said:
23 hours ago, zydeco said:

Can somebody then compare the letters from Canada and New Zealand to the old letters from the UK, US, and Australia. Are they different? 

Sir please dont ask hard questions.....The you might make the guys on here who unquestionably support this action uncomfortable...

 

There is no mystery here....There is a ZERO% chance the embassies all thought this idea up at exactly the same time.....

 

Nope this is just good old fashion anti western sentiment....And dont any one try and say its not because if it was not it would have included ALL embassies every last one of them....They got the big 3 ....More western embassies will probably follow later...   

"Sir please dont ask hard questions.....The you might make the guys on here who unquestionably support this action uncomfortable..."

I doubt that you could indicate even one person here who supports the Embassies' cancellation of the service, there may be some who understand the reason that the Embassies did it, though but that is not "unquestionably supporting their decision"!  Big difference!

 

"There is no mystery here....There is a ZERO% chance the embassies all thought this idea up at exactly the same time....."

You're right, there's no mystery, that's for sure; the reason that they came up with their decisions at that time was that IB made it's requirements known to all the embassies at the same time!

 

"Nope this is just good old fashion anti western sentiment....And dont any one try and say its not because if it was not it would have included ALL embassies every last one of them...."

I will.   First of all your sentiment is nonsense as every embassy was included, not just western embassies, no embassies were exempt from the requirement.   It's just that some embassies seem to be happy to appear to meet the requirements of the IB even if they don't, for the time being.

 

Edited by Just Weird
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18 hours ago, zydeco said:

a diplomatic conflict with the US, the UK, and Australia

Hahahahahaha…  Hardly!

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As always, the UK embassy refused the simple demand of Thai immigration for the sake of arrogance and a sense of superiority.


The US Embassy followed suit with linguistic solidarity, and that of Australia with foolishness.


For my part, I am very happy to be born elsewhere.

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4 hours ago, Surasak said:

I, like any other UK tax payer living in Thailand, can download a statement of my monthly income and tax from the HMRC web site. Why can't the British consulate accept that as proof of my earnings? Or is that too simple?

The British Embassy are not the one's who have to accept it, it's Thailand's Immigration Bureau that has to accept it!

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25 minutes ago, evadgib said:

People should think hard before posting.

I don't believe I said each person needs to travel to the Embassy- they can have the option of going or the option of sending their proof by mail.  The Embassy would need to change their  wording on their document to indicate the applicant is self certifying and has presented documentation that agrees with what is being self certified.

 

If UK law allows for taking an Oath over the phone or by placing a statement  on the form indicating that the applicant is submitting his signature under penalty of perjury that would be fine.

 

There is already a system for all citizens to  transfer  their funds to Thailand or put money in the bank.  If they reinstated the letter, that would be another option.

 

 

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The Austrian Consulate in Pattaya issue a "Letter of Income" for Austrian, Belgian, Dutch, French, German citizens (maybe also for other nationalities I am not aware off). 

 

Since a couple of years, they write now "We hereby certify that..." in their letter. 

 

I use their services for about 15 years. 

 

I still produce the same documents :

 

Copy of my tax income. 

Copy of the monthly payments done by the Belgian Office of Pensions. 

Copy of the last 3 months of my Belgian bank statements, showing the amounts transferred by the Office of Pensions. 

 

Of course all those documents can be falsified. 

 

The Consulate however believe that a very small % will do this, so good people should not be the dupe of the bad ones. 

 

Also for ca. 15-20000 Thb one can obtain easely an extension via an agent, with no need to falsify anything. 

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4 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

British Embassy income letters were verified. US affidavits and Aus stat decs weren't.

The British Embassy never verified that the claimed income was correct.

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