Which foreign health insurance companies are accepted for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay)

[wgdanson]

On 12/8/2019 at 12:59 PM, rexall said:

A little off-topic, but just for the record, I have had BOOOPA in Thailand the past 10 years. B500,000 cover, inpatient only. I pay B72K for that. I recently asked them would it would cost to add B40K in outpatient. No can do. Only B75K provided, and it would add approximately another B50K (!!!!) to my premium.  What a crappy deal! B50K to get a maximum of $B75K.  If they used the same math, it would cost B28K to get B40K in coverage. It's a joke!  In my case it is a double joke as it is highly unlikely I would use outpatient as in the vast majority of cases, I would prefer to get outpatient stuff taken care of by a "doc in the box" rather than having to go to the hospital, wait all day, and inhale everyone's germs!

Cigna were quoting a similar disproportionate figure for Outpatient cover.

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, stat said:

Ahem sorry to disagree but in Germany you buy general health insurance with no expiration date and no maximum cover. Usually you pay one month in advance and that's that, no end date specified but you can cancel at any time. Another option for long time travel is insurance up to 5 years and if you cut your travel short you do get your money back. Only limit 5 years cause its travel related.

Would be interesting to see whether the thai embassy in Germany would accept a no-expiration date policy for issuing the OA Visa.  I presume they would want to have the filled-in/signed foreign insurance Certificate by your insurance company stating that your policy meets the IO requirements.  And so you would have to convince your insurance company to fill it in (which might prove difficult as it refers to thai legislation with which they are not familiar). 

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, stat said:

...

Under these scenarios the Thai insurances are a complete waste of money IMHO but needed for extension.

Yes, needed for extension of a Non Imm OA Visa based on retirement.

There are however several options to apply for a different Visa-type that does not require health-insurance.

All of these options are presently embarked upon by OA Visa holders that quite rightly want to escape the expensive and basically worthless thai-approved health-insurance requirement.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Would be interesting to see whether the thai embassy in Germany would accept a no-expiration date policy for issuing the OA Visa.

Then you have to persuade the IO at the airport too. Not a good place to be after chasing a Visa that requires substantial efforts. 

[Crisu]

I have an Expat Retired insurance at the german BDAE

 

https://www.bdae.com/en/health-insurance/for-stays-longer-than-5-years

 

They signed the requested insurance certificate for Non OA with unlimited cover and expiry date 2999.

 

The thai consulate in Berlin confirmed in writing the acceptance of the certificate to issue a Non OA

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Crisu

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, Crisu said:

I have an Expat Retired insurance at the german BDAE

https://www.bdae.com/en/health-insurance/for-stays-longer-than-5-years

They signed the requested insurance certificate for Non OA with unlimited cover and expiry date 2999.

The thai consulate in Berlin confirmed in writing the acceptance of the certificate to issue a Non OA

Thanks for your post, yours being one of the first reports of a Non OA Visa being issued, and making use of the foreign insurance certificate.

Since the expiry date of your insurance is 2999 (lifetime), in principle you will have no problems entering/re-entering Thailand during the almost 2 years you can squeeze out of the Non OA Visa.

However, according to the present legislation, your policy will NOT be accepted when at the end of those 2 years you apply for an extension of stay (as only thai health-insurance is allowed then).

But in your case, that would not be much of a problem as you can simply return to your home-country and re-apply for a Non Imm OA Visa.  Or maybe by then the regulations might have changed also allowing foreign-insurance when applying for an extension of stay.

Note: As mentioned, in principle you will have no problems entering/re-entering Thailand.  But for sure, you will get some puzzled looks and possible scrutiny from border-immigration on entering when they see the 2999 expiry date of your insurance.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Peter Denis

[stat]

23 hours ago, Crisu said:

I have an Expat Retired insurance at the german BDAE

 

https://www.bdae.com/en/health-insurance/for-stays-longer-than-5-years

 

They signed the requested insurance certificate for Non OA with unlimited cover and expiry date 2999.

 

The thai consulate in Berlin confirmed in writing the acceptance of the certificate to issue a Non OA

 

 

Crisu u happy with the insurance? Have you claimed anything and they paid up?

 

Thanks!

[stat]

It boggles my mind how you can have a one year health insurance? What happens if u have a serious condition and your insurance is terminated? BAM u are royally <deleted> because you cant get a health insurance anymore. Just my 2 cents I am very risk enjoying person in the stockmarket but not when I risk my complete lifesaving in opting for a one year insurance.

 

PS: I always have the option to back to Germany and have my old insurance.

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, stat said:

It boggles my mind how you can have a one year health insurance? What happens if u have a serious condition and your insurance is terminated? BAM u are royally <deleted> because you cant get a health insurance anymore. Just my 2 cents I am very risk enjoying person in the stockmarket but not when I risk my complete lifesaving in opting for a one year insurance.

 

PS: I always have the option to back to Germany and have my old insurance.

Normally the health-insurance contract you subscribe to is for an indefinite period, but it is the premium that has to be paid annually.  When you fail to pay the premium, the contract is void.  IO wants to see that you have valid health-insurance, and hence they require a certificate which states that you are covered as well as the period of that coverage (being the period for which you paid the annual premium).

Note 1: Read a post from a TVF member where the IO not only wanted to see the (original) Certificate of health-insurance coverage, but also proof that the premium was paid.  As usual, IO are overdoing it because the insurance-company would not issue the Certificate without the premium being paid.

Note 2: From a risk point of view, the large majority of the thai-approved health-insurance policies are as good as worthless because they are capped at 400.000 THB in-patient.  The cost of any real serious accident or illness will easily be far higher than that figure, thus actually putting you at risk of bankruptcy when you have that bogus-insurance.

[Crisu]

13 hours ago, stat said:

Crisu u happy with the insurance? Have you claimed anything and they paid up?

 

Thanks!

Yes i am happy.

I never claimed anything since i was never sick but i know someone who claimed money for an operation and it was refund to him within 2 weeks without problem. He even did not informed BDAE before the operatiom what he should have done. They paid anyway and just informed him before the next operation to give just a short notice.

And it is even possible that the insurance company settle directly with the hospital if they get in touch.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Crisu

[Peter Denis]

@Sheryl > If you missed this thread, posts #95 till #100, will most probably be of interest for you.

[Sheryl]

On 12/17/2019 at 8:31 AM, Peter Denis said:

Would be interesting to see whether the thai embassy in Germany would accept a no-expiration date policy for issuing the OA Visa.  I presume they would want to have the filled-in/signed foreign insurance Certificate by your insurance company stating that your policy meets the IO requirements.  And so you would have to convince your insurance company to fill it in (which might prove difficult as it refers to thai legislation with which they are not familiar). 

 

There is a TV member who got a German Insurer (HansMerker or something like that) to sign the certificate. And another one with BDAE, see a few posts back. But yes, in some very legalistically minded countries  (like the US and UK) companies are less likely to sign.

 

And as already mentioned some Embassies/Consulates are accepting policy documents in lieu of the certificate. I suspect  more will do so as they find, especially in US and UK, that people just can't get the certificates signed due to the wording.

 

It will however be essential that a policy expiration date be included in the Embassy visa notation, instructions of entry point IOs tell them to look for that and use it to determine how long a permission of stay to grant.  As there is no value to an expiration that goes beyond 366 days from the expiry date of the  OA Visa,  I would suggest people with no-expiration date policies  suggest that date to the Embassy/Consulate as there is a risk that a "no expiration" notation would confuse IOs.

 

The reason most private  Health Insurance policy have yearly expiration dates is that the insurer has no way of knowing the insured person will pay the following year's premium until they do, and indeed does not know exactly what the following year's premium will be until there is an annual analysis of costs (many years see an across the board inflationary adjustment for changes in health care costs etc).   The situation in Germany is I think quiet different as insurance is legally required and there may also be some state subsidies (rather more like the Thai SS system than private insurance in say US/UK/Oz).

[Sheryl]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:34 AM, jacko45k said:

Then you have to persuade the IO at the airport too. Not a good place to be after chasing a Visa that requires substantial efforts. 

 

IOs at airports have been instructed to look for Embassy notation on the visa.

 

As long as this is there, should not have to "persuade", just point it out.

 

As this is a new system and (understandably) not many people are arriving on new OAs, might not be a bad idea to have phone number of the Embassy/Consulate on hand when you enter and try to time entry to their working hours so in a pinch could call them. Probably not needed but a good back up.

 

 

[Sheryl]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:37 AM, stat said:

It boggles my mind how you can have a one year health insurance? What happens if u have a serious condition and your insurance is terminated? BAM u are royally <deleted> because you cant get a health insurance anymore. Just my 2 cents I am very risk enjoying person in the stockmarket but not when I risk my complete lifesaving in opting for a one year insurance.

 

PS: I always have the option to back to Germany and have my old insurance.

 

You misunderstand. The policies are paid for annually (some allow quarterly or monthly payments but the contract is still for one year) but that does not mean they can terminate you after one year. 

 

In most countries (but not unfortunately Thailand)  policies have to guarantee lifetime renewal and cannot drop you unless you miss a premium or have committed fraud. They also cannot raise your rates based on claims. So actually you are perfectly secure as  long as you pay your premiums. There will be age and inflation  related increases, but the company cannot terminate you.

 

The  reason private insurance policies usually have yearly expiration dates is because the company has no way of knowing if you will choose to renew the following year, in a context where insurance is voluntary or people have choice of insurers. You might decide to drop coverage or change insurance providers.

 

Policies also usually have a clause that gives the insured a grace period to still pay the premium beyond the expiration date, say 1 month, keeping the same coverage active.

 

In Thailand also an insurer cannot terminate you while the policy is in effect and must adhere to whatever renewal terms are stated in the policy. However these vary greatly. Some guarantee lifetime coverage while others only up to a certain age. And in Thailand, unlike most countries, insurers are allowed to raise premium rates on an individual basis due to your having had a large claim or developed a chronic condition. Such increase would be on top of the normal age related increases.  So with Thai insurance the risk is that you will in effect get priced out, or that the policy cannot be renewed past a certain age though this last thing you can guard against by selecting only policies that provide lifetime or virtually lifetime renewal.

 

My foreign-issued policy expires next Spring just as it did last Spring. The insurer is required to send me a renewal notice and to renew it if I pay the next year's premium, as of course I will. And as I went through a broker I have the added comfort of knowing they will help insure I don't forget when the premium is due.

 

Insurance policies are legal contracts. They all contain provisions which spell out the renewal provision (and contrary to what some say,  these are in perfectly normal sized font).

[stat]

On 12/20/2019 at 3:26 AM, Sheryl said:

 

You misunderstand. The policies are paid for annually (some allow quarterly or monthly payments but the contract is still for one year) but that does not mean they can terminate you after one year. 

 

In most countries (but not unfortunately Thailand)  policies have to guarantee lifetime renewal and cannot drop you unless you miss a premium or have committed fraud. They also cannot raise your rates based on claims. So actually you are perfectly secure as  long as you pay your premiums. There will be age and inflation  related increases, but the company cannot terminate you.

 

The  reason private insurance policies usually have yearly expiration dates is because the company has no way of knowing if you will choose to renew the following year, in a context where insurance is voluntary or people have choice of insurers. You might decide to drop coverage or change insurance providers.

 

Policies also usually have a clause that gives the insured a grace period to still pay the premium beyond the expiration date, say 1 month, keeping the same coverage active.

 

In Thailand also an insurer cannot terminate you while the policy is in effect and must adhere to whatever renewal terms are stated in the policy. However these vary greatly. Some guarantee lifetime coverage while others only up to a certain age. And in Thailand, unlike most countries, insurers are allowed to raise premium rates on an individual basis due to your having had a large claim or developed a chronic condition. Such increase would be on top of the normal age related increases.  So with Thai insurance the risk is that you will in effect get priced out, or that the policy cannot be renewed past a certain age though this last thing you can guard against by selecting only policies that provide lifetime or virtually lifetime renewal.

 

My foreign-issued policy expires next Spring just as it did last Spring. The insurer is required to send me a renewal notice and to renew it if I pay the next year's premium, as of course I will. And as I went through a broker I have the added comfort of knowing they will help insure I don't forget when the premium is due.

 

Insurance policies are legal contracts. They all contain provisions which spell out the renewal provision (and contrary to what some say,  these are in perfectly normal sized font).

Thanks for your post Sheryl!

 

So its basically the same as in Germany. Even here I can cancel and change my health insurer as long as I have a new one. The only difference being that the foreign contract has an expiration date written on it and the German does not contain a formal end of contract; however I can terminate the contract anytime if I choose to do so but the company cannot. However companies can more or less raise the price in some cases up to 50% a year.

 

Does finally someone managed to get stamped in for another "fresh" 12 months on a reentry to Thailand on an OA Visa with non Thai Health Insurance?