Pulled aside in Chiang Mai

[scottiddled]

25 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

No one is saying under 50s can't survive- but what are they doing to do when they are  60 or 65 and have no government pensions as they never paid into the system; have no superannuation fund as they never paid into the system.  I

 

If one is working for a Thai Company- they won't want you anymore after a certain age.  You will then be forced into an untenable situation.

 

If the most money someone who is youger than 50 is making in Europe is 2900 Euro or in America $2900 per month- that tells me it would be better in the long run to get more education or a marketable skill that pays at least double that amount per month

Good , high paying jobs are abundant in the US.  No one wants to leave their familr but Thais do it constantly by seeking higher wages abroad.

I respect this perspective, but please bear in mind that everyone's situation is different.

 

Sure, for the most part higher-paying jobs are available in the West. But that overlooks three important factors:

1. In some cases, workers can earn more in SE Asia (e.g., teachers with advanced degrees at top international schools, executives for multinationals who are willing to take a "hardship" posting).
2. In many, many more cases, even if the salary is lower, the savings potential is much higher due to lower cost of living. 
3. Regardless of money, many people want to be able to see more of the world. Living in Thailand is not only an experience in its own right, it also makes exploring the rest of Asia much easier. 

 

You are absolutely right to point out the retirement implications. A lot of expats are playing with fire and not accounting for the fact that they're not socking away pension, 401(k), or even Social Security credits. It's a big concern. But for some people, the extra pay (and even greater savings potential) makes accepting long-term work in Asia a smart financial move. They just have to save more and be aware of the possibility that political/employment circumstances may change, so they may not be able to hold that overseas job forever and should be ready to shift gears.

 

All that being said...none of this applies to tourists. Much of it doesn't even apply to some DNs (if they're working for a Western company or an independent contractor paying taxes in the West). And it really doesn't explain the hostility of the salty crowd (I'm not considering you part of that crowd).

Edited November 18, 2019 by scottiddled

[tabarin]

26 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

No one is saying under 50s can't survive- but what are they doing to do when they are  60 or 65 and have no government pensions as they never paid into the system; have no superannuation fund as they never paid into the system.  

A pension does not have to depend on the classic ways, in fact, I would say the classic ways are risky. One can also have a mortgage house back home, rented out and paid for, which will be a asset before pension age. Add on a paid off home in Thailand + savings on your own, perhaps a small inheritance over time. 

[shy coconut]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I obtain 3 month multi entry tourist visas to Vietnam 4 times a year. USA can obtain one yr multiple for about same cost. I could obtain a business 12 month visa with RC and work permit for a "fee".

I won't even start on other countries. 

Why refer to his home country? When I attend to business in oz and  need workers I go on Gumtree and employ the zillion UK etc tourists working for cash. 

Back in the 80's I had something called a working holiday visa in Oz

I think it's main aim was to legitimise casual work, there were restrictions on how 

long a job could last.

Gumtree wasn't invented then, so I usually turned up at the CES early and got

assigned to a movie available.

 

A little off topic, I apologise. The OP was fortunate as there are indeed restrictions on the amount of time spent in Thailand on tourist visas.

[Langkawee]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not available to retired men.

Get ready for your move to Vietnam, indefinite 3 month visas for $40, beer at 60% discount in BIG C or LOTTE MART, much tastier food "COM" and beautiful women. It's not so bad to have to leave Thailand 555. You'll survive. However to find a cheap apartment impossible without a Vietnamese friend and this website https://nha.chotot.com/ IMO. Not easy at all to find cheap apartments. Stuff in English on internet is much higher than market price, IMO, a scam. The greatest thing about Thailand is the ease of finding nice cheap apartments and what traps many farang in Thailand. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Langkawee

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, Tayaout said:

You will eventually get denied on tourist visa. You have been lucky and if you can't get a non-o or elite you should pack your stuff and move on unfortunately. 

Another poster who seems to think that others are beneath him.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, jackdd said:

It's called permanent residency, which you should get if you want to live in Thailand permanently

Yes, especially after so many years of marriage to a Thai national. Other countries can do it

so why not Thailand? Don't bother answering that.

[Tayaout]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Another poster who seems to think that others are beneath him.

No. I'm not 40 and was denied entry. Now I'm on non-o but I would have left Thailand if my then girlfriend wasn't pregnant. 

 

The truth is that if he persist on trying to stay in Thailand on tourist or Ed visa he will be denied. I never said it wad right or wrong. 

[Solinvictus]

23 hours ago, Totoandlilly said:

Is it illegal to live in Thailand on those visas? Not everyone are married/old enough to get the retirement visa or dumb enough to pay a tons of money for a elite visa. As long as he is not working illegally,are a criminal etc there shouldn't be a problem, people that spend money should been treated like a criminals, time the Thai immigration starts to require background check from home country and show you have money from that are earned not in Thailand so they can continue live here on whatever visa they want as there are no options for those.

 

One day the might hit the retirees harder and most of you will moan, some if you guys thinks they because you have retirement visa means you are immune to be affected, no you are not.

Talk about the "Debbie Downer" post of the 2019...

[Salerno]

9 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE.

I don't think we are. BTW, was the shouting so the wrinklies could hear you or what? 

[looking for LIFE insurance]

23 hours ago, Totoandlilly said:

Is it illegal to live in Thailand on those visas? Not everyone are married/old enough to get the retirement visa or dumb enough to pay a tons of money for a elite visa. As long as he is not working illegally,are a criminal etc there shouldn't be a problem, people that spend money should been treated like a criminals, time the Thai immigration starts to require background check from home country and show you have money from that are earned not in Thailand so they can continue live here on whatever visa they want as there are no options for those.

 

One day the might hit the retirees harder and most of you will moan, some if you guys thinks they because you have retirement visa means you are immune to be affected, no you are not.

or dumb enough to pay a tons of money for a elite visa

 

I paid 1M BHT or $25,000 for my lifetime "DUMB" Visa.

 

Do the math , I am in/out of the airport in a golf cart within 40 minute.  In/out of CW in under 40 minutes.  I have a visa for life.

 

Let's see how long you last..

Edited November 18, 2019 by looking for LIFE insurance
add content

[looking for LIFE insurance]

I purchased mine 21 years AGO.

[Langkawee]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Another poster who seems to think that others are beneath him.

No, he is just being helpful by stating the facts, better to talk straight than be stranded abroad with no way to collect his personal effects and sell his car. Clearly you can not live on tourist visas anymore, but no problem in Vietnam.

[Langkawee]

3 hours ago, Langkawee said:

Get ready for your move to Vietnam, indefinite 3 month visas for $40, beer at 60% discount in BIG C or LOTTE MART, much tastier food "COM" and beautiful women. It's not so bad to have to leave Thailand 555. You'll survive. However to find a cheap apartment impossible without a Vietnamese friend and this website https://nha.chotot.com/ IMO. Not easy at all to find cheap apartments. Stuff in English on internet is much higher than market price, IMO, a scam. The greatest thing about Thailand is the ease of finding nice cheap apartments and what traps many farang in Thailand. 

The only way to find an apartment in Vietnam is with the help of a Vietnamese friend. This is where foreigners can be scammed and pay much more if you look yourself. A Vietnamese friend has confirmed this. 

[emptypockets]

23 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Yes, it is illegal because there is a maximum number of days in a year that you can stay in Thailand on a tourist visa.

 

Can anybody live in your home country 12 months every year on a tourist visa alone doing visa/border runs to extend their stay?

No, there is not.

[emptypockets]

11 hours ago, scottiddled said:

They'd design a visa system that accounts for digital nomads, gap year folks, folks on sabbatical, the semi-retired, etc. Until then, people are g

It's called a tourist visa.

[moe666]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:18 PM, Totoandlilly said:

Is it illegal to live in Thailand on those visas? Not everyone are married/old enough to get the retirement visa or dumb enough to pay a tons of money for a elite visa. As long as he is not working illegally,are a criminal etc there shouldn't be a problem, people that spend money should been treated like a criminals, time the Thai immigration starts to require background check from home country and show you have money from that are earned not in Thailand so they can continue live here on whatever visa they want as there are no options for those.

 

One day the might hit the retirees harder and most of you will moan, some if you guys thinks they because you have retirement visa means you are immune to be affected, no you are not.

Yes it is illigal to live on a tourist visa, tourist usually means staying somewhere for a short time and then going home. I would not worry about people who are here on a retirement visa or extension of stay, if you are trying to live here on tourist visa then you need to worry about yourself

[mockingbird]

15 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Yes it is illigal to live on a tourist visa, 

Nonsense. It's not illegal to live in Thailand on a tourist visa.

[Gweiloman]

6 minutes ago, mockingbird said:

Nonsense. It's not illegal to live in Thailand on a tourist visa.

Yes, you are right, it’s not illegal. Sadly, Thai immigration has decided it’s not allowed. So what are you going to do about it? Sue them?

[lkv]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:56 AM, Keepitmovin said:

education visa just ended so I went to Saigon and got a tourist visa.

OP, could I kindly ask (after 6 pages), what is the question?

Edited November 18, 2019 by lkv

[UncleMhee]

11 hours ago, looking for LIFE insurance said:

I paid 1M BHT or $25,000 for my lifetime "DUMB" Visa.

 

Do the math , I am in/out of the airport in a golf cart within 40 minute.  In/out of CW in under 40 minutes.  I have a visa for life.

 

Let's see how long you last..

Ten years of saving and planning a retirement strategy on the correct official visa, O-A; sourced from home country with all the checks and balances, basically blown out of the water by new regulations in the first eighteen months of being here. I was never going to be one of those guys that needed an agent. Guess what?

 

So Good Luck with all that! TIT

 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, emptypockets said:

No, there is not.

Well actually there is, probably 90 days on a single tourist visa. The problem is, one can get another.

[lamyai3]

12 hours ago, looking for LIFE insurance said:

I purchased mine 21 years AGO.

Elite visa was introduced by Thaksin in 2003. 21 years ago it didn't exist, and he was still a couple of years away from being PM. 

[gyps]

I just got back from Vietnam to obtain a one year multiple entry visa with no reporting. I have been here in Chiang Mai for a year and love it. But, don't want to spend another smokey season here and my volunteer visa makes fleeing to the islands impossible. I am of retirement age, so I can get the Retirement visa, but I figured I would look around a bit in this part of the world and do some comparisons. I have been traveling for the past 3 years in Central America and Thailand. The last time I was in Thailand in 1970! My how time flies! Anyhow, the agent who got me the visa (I paid extra for VIP treatment, which was worth every penny of the $465 for the one year multiple visa) told me that business visa is not exclusive to Americans only. I asked her that specifically for guys on this forum. Renewal is $200 per year. If you want her contact information let me know how to contact you. I will be able to explore from Nha Trang other countries including Taiwan to compare them with my experience here in Thailand, which other then then the hours navigating the immigration maze, police license checks, and <deleted> air for 3 months or more last year, has been a great time. I love it here. No sense in wishing for a multiple entry visa with no reporting, for one fourth or more of the cost here...it ain't happening. So, I will either pony up and pay the price including the reporting, or get out of Dodge for good. I am hoping Vietnam satisfies my simple needs at this point of my life.

[scottiddled]

 

10 hours ago, moe666 said:

Yes it is illigal to live on a tourist visa, tourist usually means staying somewhere for a short time and then going home. I would not worry about people who are here on a retirement visa or extension of stay, if you are trying to live here on tourist visa then you need to worry about yourself

What you wrote here is just silly. "Tourist" "usually means" is not always means. Short time? That's subject to interpretation.

 

Most importantly, the naked assertions surrounding about "living" somewhere are just the salty squad's way of justifying criticism of anyone they think stays in Thailand too long--which is ironic given that most of the salty squad are camped out here on relatively cushy/convenient retirement visas. 

 

By some definitions, you "live" wherever you spent the night last. By others, you have a relatively stable home somewhere for years and not be considered a resident. Depending on which government/bank/utility company you ask, the answer to "where do you live?" can differ. 

 

Sure, if someone is making a home in Thailand and intends to stay permanently, they can't rely on a tourist visa. At best, they can start with a tourist visa and transition to something else. But unless they've cut all ties to their previous home and have no intention of returning (or leaving Thailand for some place else), there's nothing illegal about someone being in Thailand on a tourist visa. You're just throwing out "living" as if it's a meaningful, legal term. It's a classic salty squad move.

 

The real problem here is that the Thai government is ridiculously inept when it comes to implementing clear laws and communicating them to the public. There is absolutely nothing illegal about someone applying for tourist visas (or using exemptions) ad infinitum. There's only discretion, which we have seen time and again is just arbitrary and often used as a way of correcting (perceived) flaws in the law by illegally misapplying other provisions. A grumpy IO's snap judgment that someone has been in Thailand "too long" is the worst kind of banana republic justice. Justifying their denial of admission on the grounds of "insufficient means of support" (often when the traveler has the cash in hand, or when they're never even asked to show it), is a crime in and of itself. 

 

I get that it's sometimes hard to have sympathy for people you think are stretching the definition of "tourist," but when the salty squad does it, it's just hypocritical and spiteful. If someone has the desire, time, and means to spend six months or sixteen months in Thailand, there's nothing wrong with that. If you think there is, advocate for a change in Thai law that would impose clear restrictions on tourism. 

 

11 hours ago, emptypockets said:

It's called a tourist visa.

10 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Yes, you are right, it’s not illegal. Sadly, Thai immigration has decided it’s not allowed. So what are you going to do about it? Sue them?

Hence the problem with Thailand's unique blend of corruption, lack of governmental stability, and incompetence. 

 

The tourist visa doesn't really provide a clean solution to many in gap year, sabbatical, or semi-retired, or digital nomad circumstances. It gives you a month or two, followed by another trip to another office, usually in another country. That's a waste of time and resources, and doesn't really provide clarity to folks who want to follow the rules and know the limits. 

 

Heck, even the United States authorizes six-month stays for tourists on a visa, with no reporting requirements and the opportunity to extend, if needed. That's the norm. Got a three-year visa and you're coming for two weeks? You're (electronically) stamped in for six months. 

 

Honestly, folks should make a bigger stink about IO abuses of discretion. The fraudulent grounds for denial, reliance on agents, different enforcement perspectives at different entry points, all of this portrays Thailand in a very negative light. Just because it won't impact someone looking to vacation on a beach for two weeks doesn't mean it has no impact on the decisions of a significant number of people. I spent a month in Thailand before deciding to look into relocating long-term, and several factors almost pushed me to Malaysia instead: governmental (in)stability and immigration hassles. 

 

The saddest thing is that a forum like this could be a force for change, but enough of the salty squad have drank the Kook Aid. Psychologically, it's similar to a hazing culture. Those who have been through it feel justified in seeing others suffer. They'd rather not have fairness or justice for everyone--they just want others to suffer as they feel they have. If people would drop the "I belong here because I jumped through all the hoops (or paid big money to an agent to get around them), so I want others jump through them as well or get out" attitude, it would be easier to push for change. The salty squad just provide cover for Thai authorities who think their rules are fair/appropriate. 

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, gyps said:

I just got back from Vietnam to obtain a one year multiple entry visa with no reporting. I have been here in Chiang Mai for a year and love it. But, don't want to spend another smokey season here and my volunteer visa makes fleeing to the islands impossible. I am of retirement age, so I can get the Retirement visa, but I figured I would look around a bit in this part of the world and do some comparisons. I have been traveling for the past 3 years in Central America and Thailand. The last time I was in Thailand in 1970! My how time flies! Anyhow, the agent who got me the visa (I paid extra for VIP treatment, which was worth every penny of the $465 for the one year multiple visa) told me that business visa is not exclusive to Americans only. I asked her that specifically for guys on this forum. Renewal is $200 per year. If you want her contact information let me know how to contact you. I will be able to explore from Nha Trang other countries including Taiwan to compare them with my experience here in Thailand, which other then then the hours navigating the immigration maze, police license checks, and <deleted> air for 3 months or more last year, has been a great time. I love it here. No sense in wishing for a multiple entry visa with no reporting, for one fourth or more of the cost here...it ain't happening. So, I will either pony up and pay the price including the reporting, or get out of Dodge for good. I am hoping Vietnam satisfies my simple needs at this point of my life.

 

Are you american? 1 year visas aren't available to other nationalities anymore, they are suspended and the max length is 3 months, i hope you know of all the blacklistings happening to vietnam business visas. As they are all fake registered to fake companies, there are tons of people that got into issues using them. Tons of reports on expat.com: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=827419

 

 

Vietnam has the same address reporting thailand has, so does cambodia btw, so i am not sure what you are even talking about, better make sure your address is reported to the local police: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=283684

 

Vietnam also has the same air pollution issues in the cities, so once again not sure what you are on about.

 

 

So you are now essentially in a country that has NO RETIRMENT visa option at all, on a prolly fake business visa, i find that irresponsible. If you don't  want to pony up the cash for a thai retirement application i would recommend you to look at the philiphines instead, the only other country with a sane visa system (it's actually much better than the thai one) for long time stays.

Edited November 19, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, scottiddled said:

 

The saddest thing is that a forum like this could be a force for change, but enough of the salty squad have drank the Kook Aid. Psychologically, it's similar to a hazing culture. Those who have been through it feel justified in seeing others suffer. They'd rather not have fairness or justice for everyone--they just want others to suffer as they feel they have. If people would drop the "I belong here because I jumped through all the hoops (or paid big money to an agent to get around them), so I want others jump through them as well or get out" attitude, it would be easier to push for change. The salty squad just provide cover for Thai authorities who think their rules are fair/appropriate. 

Well stated and  and accurate assessment.   I , personally,  feel no animosity if someone cones to Thailand' tries to live the dream and succeeds or doesn't.  

 

I don't think I am salty but I have seen a thing or two living in Thailand and I do point out that long term planning is needed to stay in Thailand and live a decent, happy existence, make a future for your family and stay legal.  

 

The World has changed since I first came here in 1971 and so has Thailand.  IMO Thailand is attempting to restrict foreigners from coming to the country on a long term basis and that is not just those  under 50 but adding requirements and different processes for retired people age 50  plus.  Even gertting married to a Thai is more difficult than 10 years ago, with some Ampurs refusing to do the work or requiring added docs and even waiting times.

 

IMO The Thai power structure (not the Thai people) have tired of foreign influence; foreign ideas and have blamed us for a degradation of their culture.  To them, it's better to court the Indians and Chinese , not only due to their potential number' but they come in for 15 days and leave to be replaced  by others on a weekly basis.  

 

I still like Thai people; learned to understand their thinking  but in no way can any foreigner ever understand the totality of the nuances of being Thai. However, I would reccommend learning at least to speak and understand Thai so as to grasp what is happening around you. It;s alos an insight into the whole Thai world of living.

 

Even though I am retired and  in the sunset of life- I still like to talk to younger foreigners and Thais.  They represent new ideas; new ways of thinking and a lack of the prejudicial behavior that existed in the past.  

 

Some older people can be salty- simply from being dealt a hard hand and thus not open to new ideas.  However, most of us are open minded, know there are massive changes ahead  and need to move forward  in adapting.

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well actually there is, probably 90 days on a single tourist visa. The problem is, one can get another.

People on a non-immigrant visas/extensions are called "temporary visitors" under Thai law. Some of them abuse this system, and instead of returning back home after a while they think they can stay permanently in Thailand. The problem is that Thailand didn't set a limit to this, which makes them believe they have a right to live in Thailand and dare to complain if Thailand changes the rules.

Would you agree to this?

[kurtmartens]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

 

Even gertting married to a Thai is more difficult than 10 years ago, with some Ampurs refusing to do the work or requiring added docs and even waiting times.

 

Really?  Other than the standard TIT answer, how can an Ampur refuse to do the work in regards to the marriage as long as all the paperwork is done?  Not arguing with you, just curious.

[ThomasThBKK]

20 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Really?  Other than the standard TIT answer, how can an Ampur refuse to do the work in regards to the marriage as long as all the paperwork is done?  Not arguing with you, just curious.

 

Well they refused to give me a yellow house book too and the land office claimed we are married and refused to do their work too - that's how, they just make <deleted> up - literally. 

 

 

[jackdd]

24 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Really?  Other than the standard TIT answer, how can an Ampur refuse to do the work in regards to the marriage as long as all the paperwork is done?  Not arguing with you, just curious.

I guess in the same way how an IO might refuse to process an extension if the landlord of the foreigner didn't submit a TM30. They just tell you they can't do it and refuse to change their stance.

 

Or when people get denied at an airport and want to appeal this denial. The IO might just refuse to give you the form to appeal, or in case you brought it with you he might just not accept it.

Edited November 19, 2019 by jackdd