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In Trump-Nixon impeachment comparison, Pelosi raises specter of resignation

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2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Quite an emotional outburst.  My guess is you know the "impeachment" nonsense is coming to an end, Trump will NOT be removed, and he WILL be reelected.

I doubt he will be removed but he imo he will wreck the Republican Party and they will lose in 2020 both houses and the presidency it will take decades to clean the stink this man has wrought appon the party

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16 minutes ago, Monomial said:

My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know.

Not possible, 

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3 hours ago, Kelsall said:

My guess is you know the "impeachment" nonsense is coming to an end,

Bring it on Kelsall.  When is it coming to an end? 

U.S. Congressmen and women say not until next year and McConnell vows to have a trial in the Senate

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4 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

The problem is that this argument is not about facts. It is about values. In order to understand why the concept that "others can actually support Trump" is unfathomable to you, you first need to understand what separates their value system from your own. Facts are largely irrelevant to this discussion. Trump supporters do not disagree on facts. They simply don't see Trump's attrocities as being worse than what came before.

 

Have you ever tried to listen to a Trump supporter without injecting your own code onto them? Their position is actually fairly self consistent. They really aren't evil, ignorant people. They simply believe that the current system has strayed so far from what is optimal, that Trump's rule breaking is an acceptable part of bringing it back in line. Bad things happen in war, so to speak. The interesting discussions all begin not with Trump, but what has gone wrong long before Trump. Once you see where your value systems and theirs differ, you can begin having a meaningful discussion.

 

Or you can sit there as you are now, saying they are all incomprehensible and tarring them all as evil, stupid racists. My mother is a Trump supporter. She is very intelligent, does not have a racist bone in her body, and is one of the most caring and kind people I know. But she has values that are different from both myself and my sister. She knows what Trump is. She is simply resigned to the fact that this is the kind of individual it will take to right the wrongs of the past and change the direction of the country.

 

Yours is a thoughtful, polite response. I also know some Trump supporters who don't have a mean bone in their body. I will respectfully disagree - it IS about facts. Trump is a criminal, performing criminal acts, bringing the U.S. down from the "beacon on the hill" that it used to be and turning it into a banana republic. People have died, families have been forever ruined, environmental protections are being removed in order to monetize the planet, all because of Trump's greedy, childish decisions - and the list goes on and continues to grow. To deny your own security forces and take sides with foreign adversaries amounts to treason. Strong arming desperate countries into doing your bidding by getting them involved in the American election process should make every citizen SHUDDER!

 

Since you propose that Trump supporters eschew facts, then they should be shaken to their very core over the feeling of the country being hijacked by a con man. This is a fact: The majority of Fox viewers are white evangelicals. Trump plays on their fear of the country being run over by non-whites (just listen to any one of his rallies), stokes their anger with lie after lie (where DID that caravan finally go?). I watch a little Fox every now and then - know your enemy and all that - and can't believe how wretched they are. The loaded falsehoods, the blatant bull is shameful, but the average viewer is delusional to begin with and they sop up that spew.

 

I'm sorry, I'll stick with facts. I understand Trump supporters care not about them, they wouldn't be Trump supporters in the first place if they were. And I'll continue to fight the good fight using the TRUTH in the hope that maybe SOME reality will eventually get through to them. As of this time and date, no Trump supporter has been able to refute any of my posts using facts.

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Just now, Monomial said:

You are, of course, welcome to continue espousing that position. But you will not be having meaningful discussions with Trump supporters in that case. You will only be talking to those who already agree with you. If you actually want to make an impact on a Trump supporter, you will need to address the areas where their values and your values differ.

 

With the approach you are taking, it is nothing more than theater played out to others like yourself who enjoy this kind of entertainment.  As long as you remain insistent on your approach, the increasing divide in the country will only continue to increase. Most importantly, Trump won't be going anywhere. 

 

They don't care. Never will. They are the moral betters and everyone else should be cancelled and shamed and guilted and mocked all the while blaming the targets of their mockery and ridicule and insults as the reason for the divide in the country like that is somehow a reasonable way to get people over to their side and win votes. This attitude permeates their entire political side today from the top down. 

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11 hours ago, neeray said:

I for one, would not take your bet (maybe wishful thinking by me).

Here's why. I think there is more to his unscheduled medical visit this weekend than is being told.

Maybe there truly are medical issues. As we all know, lots can go wrong in the body of a 72 year old, overweight man who practices a poor diet and places tonnage of stress on himself.

Or, he is setting the stage for resigning "due to health reasons" as a face saving measure to being impeached or losing in 2020. The writing is on the wall for either/both to happen.

He's done a lot of Teflon-type wiggling in his 3 years but there isn't much wiggle room this time.

The can of WD-40 has run dry.

 

"We'll see, we'll see what happens"

He can not resign, even a resignation with a pardon only shields him from federal prosecution,  not state charges of which there are many. His only chance is to be re-elected and run down the clock on the statute of limitations.

 

9 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Trump may be fine Physically, as his aides claim the doctor report said on Friday (only Phase one of the physical though). 

 

 

He is not Physically fine.

If he was fine he would have never gone to the hospital for an early routine medical examination . why would he have done, that?He  had nothing better to do that day and decided to have a routine medical? 

 They know damn well that such a visit would raise concerns and give the Democrats ammunition, If it was not serious the never would have gone.

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10 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

You are, of course, welcome to continue espousing that position. But you will not be having meaningful discussions with Trump supporters in that case. You will only be talking to those who already agree with you. If you actually want to make an impact on a Trump supporter, you will need to address the areas where their values and your values differ.

 

With the approach you are taking, it is nothing more than theater played out to others like yourself who enjoy this kind of entertainment.  As long as you remain insistent on your approach, the increasing divide in the country will only continue to increase. Most importantly, Trump won't be going anywhere. 

 

Then prove me wrong. We ALL should have the same values of decency (Trump has none), honesty (I don't even HAVE to go THERE to explain what a lying, cheating, thieving, homophobic xenophobe he is), integrity (big vacuum THERE!) - just explain to me why I should have to disavow all MY values in order to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

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Just now, J Town said:

Then prove me wrong. We ALL should have the same values of decency (Trump has none), honesty (I don't even HAVE to go THERE to explain what a lying, cheating, thieving, homophobic xenophobe he is), integrity (big vacuum THERE!) - just explain to me how I would have to disavow all MY values to have a discussion with a Trump supporter.

 

You don't disavow your values. I would never suggest that. Instead, you listen to their values and engage with them on the places where you both agree. Historically, this is called a canon. Most of us are familiar with "literary canon", a group of books which everyone should read so they have a place to begin discussions. But canon applies to other areas as well, such as politics and ethics.  Having  established a canon, you can then expand and start to see where your values diverge.  And then address those areas, so that the other side doesn't feel that they need to resort to a psycopath and a demagogue in order to be heard.

 

The American public has for too long forgotten how to speak to each other.  If the other issues were addressed, everyone would agree that Trump is not good. But right now, Trump supporters feel they have to stoop to this level just to get their concerns addressed. Show them instead that there is another way. Trump is just a symptom, not the disease. But be warned. You are going to need to make concessions as well, and grant them the courtesy to respect their feelings on divergent issues.

 

If you do this, you'll find Trump supporters aren't bad people. They just have different concerns than you. And if you respect their values, they are more than likely to respect yours as well. If we all did this, there would be no division for a demagogue like Trump to exploit.

 

 

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