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To many entries and denied entry


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13 hours ago, scottiddled said:

but I think you're missing a key theme in the debate over what is/isn't the law. 

I've been involved with Thailand for over 18 years - I ain't missing anything.  We can complain all we want, I'll even agree with the sentiments of your post but at the end of the day, its their country and they can do exactly what they want. What we have to do (if we want to visit or live in Thailand) is to toe the line and do our best to comply with the rules - official or unofficial.

 

Having said that, if I was refused entry with no good reason, I would call my lawyer and do what I could to get around it.  In such cases they sometimes give in because they like an easy life.  People who try to 'live in Thailand' - who don't have or may not be entitled to have the correct visa must surely know they are at risk every time they leave and try to enter again.

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It seems a repeat customer is now bad for business! Totally new, brave world tourist economy!

No disrespect to you, but that's terrible advice.    This 180 days that people are quoting isn't real.  It's not part of immigration law,  and therefore, most definitely, does not refresh at

Coming visa exempt with any kind of history is unwise. With a tourist visa, you have a much better chance. That said, you have enough time in Thailand on tourist entries that you might be denied even

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On 11/22/2019 at 5:02 AM, KhaoYai said:

I've been involved with Thailand for over 18 years - I ain't missing anything.  We can complain all we want, I'll even agree with the sentiments of your post but at the end of the day, its their country and they can do exactly what they want. What we have to do (if we want to visit or live in Thailand) is to toe the line and do our best to comply with the rules - official or unofficial.

 

Having said that, if I was refused entry with no good reason, I would call my lawyer and do what I could to get around it.  In such cases they sometimes give in because they like an easy life.  People who try to 'live in Thailand' - who don't have or may not be entitled to have the correct visa must surely know they are at risk every time they leave and try to enter again.

We might be a bit too deep in the weeds here, as I largely agreed with you and still do. My only quibble was the tenor of your post, particularly what's implied by: (a) "what is happening on the ground" is "what matters" (underselling the disconnect between law and its enforcement), and (b) telling people they should feel "lucky" if they get through.

 

Again, I think this is a pretty slight disagreement, and its easy for people to get their radar up because of some of the more unreasonable viewpoints here (i.e. "the Salty Squad").

 

I agree with you about fighting back if one is denied entry with no good reason. I disagree with you when it comes to framing things around people "who try to 'live in Thailand.'" I also disagree with your acceptance of any and all rules ("official or unofficial") on the grounds that it's "their country." There's a lot I'm willing to accept/tolerate because I'm a guest here. And there's a point at which I'd pack up and leave. But there's plenty of room in between.

 

Most of that acceptance/tolerance is cultural. I'm respectful of the people who were here before me, even when it means I have to bite my tongue a bit. That acceptance/tolerance is not unlimited, however. And for me, culture transcends the whims of whoever claims to be in charge at a given time, so acceptance/tolerance of arbitary authority is lower. 

 

At the end of the day, "they" can do a lot. And we'll take it. To a point. At certain points--well before the "pack up and leave" line has been crossed--"they" will notice that people will complain and/or disobey. It's strategic. Like it here, overall, but have an issue with some requirements you find unfair? Find the right balance between obedience, obediance with objections, and disobedience. 

 

Maybe that's a bit too rebelious or Western of a perspective for Thailand.

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On 11/25/2019 at 2:38 AM, scottiddled said:

Maybe that's a bit too rebelious or Western of a perspective for Thailand

No its not and I do believe we agree far more than 'we' might think.  Taking things beyond immigration issues but also including them, there seems to be a general sentiment that a 'farang' always loses - be that on immigration matters, divorce, car accidents, whatever - the general opinion that's put about is that we ain't going to win.

 

I have always challenged that as simple hearsay and the opinion of those who haven't really fought or simply rolled over.  When I say 'challenged', I mean actually challenged. I had a case against a hospital (Thai) a couple of years ago, even my lawyer wouldn't touch it saying the hospital had big money to spend on top lawyers and the case would get buried for years. Long story short, I fought them myself and won.

 

Although it doesn't seem to happen much now - people used to say its easier to just pay the police when they stop you for some trumped up traffic offence.  Apart from 2 occasions (in 18 years) when I was actually doing something wrong, I don't do that and stand my ground.  Without exception, on those occasions, in the end I've been simply waved through.

 

In my experience (so far), the concept that the 'farang always loses' is nothing more than 'bar stool talk' from people who haven't stood their ground even when they know they're in the right.

 

However, when it comes to entering the country, I think that's an entirely different matter. Although I would challenge any 'unlawful' denial, even be prepared to be 'banged up' for a few nights, I believe that if they really don't want to let you in there's little you can do. I'm of the opinion that on many occasions, immigration will back down - possibly because they can't be bothered with the hassle (and the fact that they probably don't have any lawful grounds).  But as for those who have flaunted the system, countless visa runs and extensions, ED visas when they aren't actually learning, etc. etc. I think they will have to count their chickens and accept what happens.

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On 11/18/2019 at 7:20 PM, Timwin said:

It seems a repeat customer is now bad for business! Totally new, brave world tourist economy!

they want us to pay for visas now as they dont get money otherwise from farangs on 30 days or less never happy but tell you otherwise .

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On 11/19/2019 at 1:06 AM, BuckBee said:

Yes, it getting silly, be far better if let him in even if only for 7 days but stamped a remark in passport so can't do it again with a time lapse or requiring a visa from home country .
 

That would be the humane thing to do, and would stem but not stop the social media destruction of Thai tourism to Vietnam's advantage. Horrific how the 41 year American was murdered by suspected terrorists in immigration jail. There should be a grace period of a week before you end up in a cell of 150 people where there's a chance you can be beaten to death. After all it is 2019, not 1819, nor the middle ages. 

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15 hours ago, aspenbkk said:

they want us to pay for visas now as they dont get money otherwise from farangs on 30 days or less never happy but tell you otherwise .

But they make it so difficult to get 60 day visa. Why not an option for evisa for visa exempt nationalities (it's not rocket science) or pay 1000 bath at land border or airport. Thailand's tourist visa system is not modern, so old hat and backwards, because country is run by old men with no forward thinking, we must wait for the new generation to rule for positive modern changes. 

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