BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, canthai55 said: Same old story - Israel Right or Wrong And tell me this - why, in every discussion about Israel, does someone play the 'Jew' card ? I never mentioned them, most did not. But as soon as the 'Deny" crowd finds their back against the wall, trying to defend what is impossible for any rational thinking human being to defend - out pops this card. An unbiased look at history, since the founding of Israel, will find a continuing policy of placing Palestinians in concentration camp-like settings (Gaza) or even worse ghettos. If it was not so sad it would be laughable - the lengths people will go to defend this State. Deplorable. May be because Israel is a jewish state????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, billd766 said: Do tell how many "innocent Israelis" were killed and injured by the rocket barrages last week and then compare that against the Palestinian killed and wounded. Tell that to the Palestinians whose lands Israel invaded and stole to build settlements on. Tell that to the rest of the world who believe that there will NEVER be a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians while Netanyahu is running Israel and while the USA covers for them at the UN. Tell that to the families of innocent Palestinian men, women and children who are murdered killed with every airstrike that the Israelis make. IMHO I don't know how Pompeo could stand up and say that with a straight face. Do you think result would have been different if Israel did not have Iron Domes? bomb shelters and warning sirens and army that struck back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 6 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said: Trump panders to his own , so its the Evangelical vote rather than the Jewish one. Both. Sheldon Adelson supports Trump because Trump supports Isreal. Many similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, BestB said: Speaking of diabolical nations, British war crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes British atrocities against Palestinian Arabs, 1936-39 http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/british-atrocities-against-palestinian.html Britain’s legacy of brutality in Palestine https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/48508/Britains+legacy+of+brutality+in+Palestine How were your fathers feelings during all the atrocities committed by British empire?he did serve British empire, did he not? But when people fought back just as viciously is when he developed lifelong hatred of Israel and all that it stood for? Well, my father wasn't there during the periods you have referenced, he wasn't even British and spoke no English until he joined the British Army in '43. Served in 6th Airborne and talked very little about his experiences in the war. However, he did relate a story about a time his subaltern murdered 2 16 year old German boys. Atrocities were committed on all sides during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, DannyCarlton said: Well, my father wasn't there during the periods you have referenced, he wasn't even British and spoke no English until he joined the British Army in '43. Served in 6th Airborne and talked very little about his experiences in the war. However, he did relate a story about a time his subaltern murdered 2 16 year old German boys. Atrocities were committed on all sides during the war. Well it was the very same army your father served in who committed all the crimes, and you did make a statement claiming it was bad jews who were murderess while brits were victims, i guess turns out not so true after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 So is anybody going to answer the question, how does this change in policy improve matters for the many people, Jewish or Palestinian currently living in fear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, BestB said: May be because Israel is a jewish state????? Absolutely not, neither my father nor I were antisemitic. We both have had Jewish friends at times. This is all part of the current propaganda of Zionist zealots claiming that to be anti zionist is to be anti semitic. All Zionists are jewish but not all Jews are zionists. Corbyn is being pilloried for the same reason. He has spoken out many time condeming racist attacks on British Jews but because he supports the Palestinian cause and condems the actions of the state of Israel, he is branded anti semetic by evangelistic zionists. It needs to stop it's creating divisions in society that didn't exist before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, BestB said: and you did make a statement claiming it was bad jews who were murderess while brits were victims, i guess turns out not so true after all I would never say that, I said Israeli terrorists not Jews. there's a difference. Please quote me if you think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, BestB said: May be because Israel is a jewish state????? Which is no explanation why you and others seem criticism of the state of Israel as being anti Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said: Absolutely not, neither my father nor I were antisemitic. We both have had Jewish friends at times. This is all part of the current propaganda of Zionist zealots claiming that to be anti zionist is to be anti semitic. All Zionists are jewish but not all Jews are zionists. Corbyn is being pilloried for the same reason. He has spoken out many time condeming racist attacks on British Jews but because he supports the Palestinian cause and condems the actions of the state of Israel, he is branded anti semetic by evangelistic zionists. It needs to stop it's creating divisions in society that didn't exist before. Utter nonsense. its like saying you have Indian friends, but you hate India. Israel stands for being one and only tiny jewish state. Israel does not seek destruction or elimination of any of its neighbors. Israel allows multi religions, gay parades and even has an arab party with 20% arab population. None of the arab states have any of the above. Not all Israelis or Jews around the world agree with expanding into Westbank, but all want for Israel to have peace. Palestinians are refusing all offers and making demands which they know will not be met. They have done nothing to improve , grow or develop, Israel gave back Gaza and all Israel got in return was rocket attacks. Even some Arabs are growing tired of them by now, The Palestinians should either accept the peace plan they are offered at the moment or “shut up” and “stop complaining,” Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman https://www.rt.com/news/425521-mbs-palestininians-peace-proposal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, stevenl said: Which is no explanation why you and others seem criticism of the state of Israel as being anti Jew. Yes for you it may not be obvious, but that is understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said: I would never say that, I said Israeli terrorists not Jews. there's a difference. Please quote me if you think otherwise. Well sorry to break it to you, but they were jews and you did quote a name of one and when people say Israel it does mean jewish state. and no, there is no difference. There might be one now that you have been caught out making rather silly claims, but in general there is no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, BestB said: Yes for you it may not be obvious, but that is understandable It's not obvious to anyone other than a rampant zionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, DannyCarlton said: It's not obvious to anyone other than a rampant zionist. Once again, if you say so, then it must be so???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, BestB said: Well sorry to break it to you, but they were jews and you did quote a name of one and when people say Israel it does mean jewish state. and no, there is no difference. There might be one now that you have been caught out making rather silly claims, but in general there is no difference. I repeat, All Isrealis aren't terrorists, but all members of Irgun and the Stern gang were. All Israelis are Jewish but not all Jews are Israelis. It's akin to saying that if someone hates ISIS they hate all Moslems. Get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said: I repeat, All Isrealis aren't terrorists, but all members of Irgun and the Stern gang were. All Israelis are Jewish but not all Jews are Israelis. It's akin to saying that if someone hates ISIS they hate all Moslems. Get it now? Last time i checked, jews living in Israel are Israelis, and since we are discussing Israel what exactly are you trying to say again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, BestB said: Last time i checked, jews living in Israel are Israelis, and since we are discussing Israel what exactly are you trying to say again? Correct. Far more Jews live outside Israel and not all of them are zionists. Many of them speak out against the atrocities committed by the state of Israel. The criticisms of the actions of the State of Israel on this thread don't reflect the feelings of posters about Jews. As an example, both my father and I were horrified and saddened by the atrocities committed by the Nazis on the Jewish people in WW11. My father fought against them, even though his mother was Geman. Probably the darkest time in human history. However, we were both horrified and saddened by the atrocities committed by the State of Israel on the Palestinian people. Irony or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXexpat Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 If there's a fire to set somewhere in the world, then the US is doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said: Correct. Far more Jews live outside Israel and not all of them are zionists. Many of them speak out against the atrocities committed by the state of Israel. The criticisms of the actions of the State of Israel on this thread don't reflect the feelings of posters about Jews. As an example, both my father and I were horrified and saddened by the atrocities committed by the Nazis on the Jewish people in WW11. My father fought against them, even though his mother was Geman. Probably the darkest time in human history. However, we were both horrified and saddened by the atrocities committed by the State of Israel on the Palestinian people. Irony or what? Once again this topic is about Israel not about who lives outside. But since you brought up WW2 and Nazi, Did you ever think that may be WW2 and Nazi was the reason why Zionism born? and Why Zionist defend jews and Israel so viciously? so that WW2 evens do not ever happen again and if you check Palestinian objective is it to drive all jews into the sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canthai55 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, BestB said: so that WW2 evens do not ever happen again Then why is Israel doing the exact same thing to the people of Palestine as was done to the Jewish - and many others - gays, russians, slavs, etc etc etc - during WW2 ? Answer - same viewpoint. If you are not for us you are against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, BestB said: Once again this topic is about Israel not about who lives outside. But since you brought up WW2 and Nazi, Did you ever think that may be WW2 and Nazi was the reason why Zionism born? and Why Zionist defend jews and Israel so viciously? so that WW2 evens do not ever happen again and if you check Palestinian objective is it to drive all jews into the sea To correct you. The topic is about a change in US policy wrt to Jewish settlements. So once again I’ll ask you, and anybody else, how does this change in US policy improve matters for the many people, Jewish or Palestinian currently living in fear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 hours ago, canthai55 said: Same old story - Israel Right or Wrong And tell me this - why, in every discussion about Israel, does someone play the 'Jew' card ? I never mentioned them, most did not. But as soon as the 'Deny" crowd finds their back against the wall, trying to defend what is impossible for any rational thinking human being to defend - out pops this card. An unbiased look at history, since the founding of Israel, will find a continuing policy of placing Palestinians in concentration camp-like settings (Gaza) or even worse ghettos. If it was not so sad it would be laughable - the lengths people will go to defend this State. Deplorable. And that is the truely tiresome aspect of any critical comment of "Israeli" policy and/or action in the automatic premise and assumption that it anti semite rather than anti the actual actions ! Name me another governmental jurisidiction that can hide behind and hold up a banner of persecution to justify it's own persecutions with selective backing in the face of predominant condemnation or rejection? Muslim? Not at all ! The majority of followers of Islam would like to see the radical element gone. Christian? The Evangelical element that has started to pervade the perversion of another (IMO) perpetuated fantasy is a manipulative menace! The whole arena of religious affiliation associated with the MONEY that provides the ability to acquire representation for social acceptance is the instituted poison of ignorance. Therein is the key and it is no less for the Jewish community. In the great divide of "religious freedom" that so often by legislation is accommodated that there is no equivalent legislation that provides genuine equality of such right within a nationalist territory. By that I mean that in the majority of the "western " world it is the base assumption that society abides by "Christian" principles (lol) in the majority of social legislated systems. In other locales the predominant religion assumes legislative superiority likewise. Why? If the principles of the majority of "recognized" "religions" incorporate the same or similar basis of social harmony then why is it that they are always in conflict politically and terratorially? Personally I have long concluded it is the manipulative motivation of those who have no faith other than to manipulate for the sake of. Yet that is in conflict of the same principles of the major religious teachings if not others. If humanity is one in real terms then consider what keeps us from having one accord on our existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, canthai55 said: Then why is Israel doing the exact same thing to the people of Palestine as was done to the Jewish - and many others - gays, russians, slavs, etc etc etc - during WW2 ? Answer - same viewpoint. If you are not for us you are against us. 1. Do not modify my posts 2. Stop posting utter rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: To correct you. The topic is about a change in US policy wrt to Jewish settlements. So once again I’ll ask you, and anybody else, how does this change in US policy improve matters for the many people, Jewish or Palestinian currently living in fear? Last time i checked Jewish settlements were in Israel not in Nicaragua ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterm Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 7 hours ago, BestB said: May be because Israel is a jewish state????? ...Only because Zionist terrorist gangs ethnically cleaned half the population who were non Jewish and refuse to this day to allow them to return to their homes, or to intermarry with Israeli Palestinians, or for the wider global Palestinian diaspora to return to the West Bank. The majority of the people in the area that the OP suggests will soon become expanded Israel are Palestinians not Jews. So how can you have a Jewish state when the majority is not Jewish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, dexterm said: ...Only because Zionist terrorist gangs ethnically cleaned half the population who were non Jewish and refuse to this day to allow them to return to their homes, or to intermarry with Israeli Palestinians, or for the wider global Palestinian diaspora to return to the West Bank. The majority of the people in the area that the OP suggests will soon become expanded Israel are Palestinians not Jews. So how can you have a Jewish state when the majority is not Jewish? History will not judge the Zionists kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexterm Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Trump's decision flies in the face of all international law, numerous UN Resolutions, previous US administrations' legal opinion and is a war crime under the Geneva Convention which states that you can't conquer territory, occupy it and transfer your own population there.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories Israel and USA are signatories to the Geneva Convention. And of course if it's OK for Israel to occupy and annex other people's land, it creates a precedent for other countries such as Russia and China to do the same, simply because they can do. You revert to the law of the jungle: might is right. But on the positive side, it means that the racist supremacist Zionist state is digging itself into a deeper hole. Israel is moving inevitably to a one state solution. If you annex the land what are you going to do about the indigenous Palestinian population who already live there? 1. ..ethically cleanse them a third time? 2. ..control 100% of their lives allowing them to live in bantustans within Israel's new borders, but refuse to give them the vote = apartheid 3. ..grant them the vote and equal civil rights to become a truly democratic country. Thanks to Trump I can see the Palestinian struggle moving to an overt anti apartheid campaign. One nation, one man, one vote. If you cant divide the land fairly, then share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, dexterm said: ...Only because Zionist terrorist gangs ethnically cleaned half the population who were non Jewish and refuse to this day to allow them to return to their homes, or to intermarry with Israeli Palestinians, or for the wider global Palestinian diaspora to return to the West Bank. The majority of the people in the area that the OP suggests will soon become expanded Israel are Palestinians not Jews. So how can you have a Jewish state when the majority is not Jewish? Yes they did so much cleaning that they left over 2 million , which happens to be over 20% of total population and turned them into citizens ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 7 hours ago, BestB said: Last time i checked Jewish settlements were in Israel not in Nicaragua ???? Last time I checked they were on the East Bank ie Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestB Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said: Last time I checked they were on the East Bank ie Palestine. When was last time you checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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