Over 80 on OA Extensions for 14 years. Chiang Mai.

[Expattaff1308]

5 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

why they don't make a black list from the hospitals bills(names, nationality,age, not yet pay) and make a data base and transmit to the immigration office,it is so easy when they come to the IOs they can control this,now they aim one type op persons may be with the most integrity and financial means,they have always minimum 400.000 on the bank account,it is just an idea i am not a minister.And i am very curious which age are not paying the bills because the first question when you go to the private hospitals is, have you an insurance or a credit card and without i think they will not help you,about the government hospitals i don't know,but they are always under "the oath of Hippocrates".

Hospital blames the majority of tourists and non western foreigners as those who skip without paying, all said and done where would most of us skip to...our Thai homes. Easily traceable!!

[UncleMhee]

29 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

I would not be using an 'agent' to try and bribe an IO ( truthfully that would be the only 'function' of an 'agent' in this case). Giving people advice to break the law (facilitation to corruption) is both irresponsible and idiotic.

Good for you.....ever been between a rock and hard place?

You don't understand Thai culture or business practices well do you? 

Take a look around you.....you no longer reside in a western society with all of it's holier than thou attitudes. Not that the same practices you so despise being advocated here don't apply there.

https://medium.com/@Nauroze/dutton-pimping-out-australias-border-for-cash-7bc2e1025a6b

Dutton Pimping out Australia’s Border for Cash

 

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, Davut said:

Oh dear,  can som

3 hours ago, Davut said:

Oh dear,  can someone clarify this one please.

 

My understanding is that "health Insurance" is only needed for new O-A visa after 31 October 2019 to gain entry into Thailand.   And,   for those who are currently on "extensions" (and started with 0-A) health insurance is not required at this time?

This gentleman who is 80 yrs (sirwilly) has no chance of getting health insurance in Thailand from what I have read.

 

Perhaps Ubon Joe can clarify this one?

 

My understanding is the same of yours, i.e. that only new applicants for O-A visis will be requried to have medical insurance. If in doubt, the poster should check with Thai Immigration head officefirst,  then his local office to ensure they are aware of and following official policy.

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

 

What happened to the idea of having the equivalent in a separate bank account for those who couldnt get Ins for whatever reason or even the 400k we are not allowed to spend from our 800k in the bank.

Somehow vanished between planning and implementation. Right along with all the assurances (as recent as last month, from the Health Minister) that people could keep their existing insurance policies and that foreign policies would be accepted.

 

For those who do mot know:

 

1. 8 of the 12 companies listed will not insure past the age of 65.

 

2. Only 3 will insure past age 70 and one of them will not renew  beyond age 80 so effectively useless; also even to that age will not guarantee renewal.

 

So basically only 2 options if over 70 and no options if over 75.

 

And at any age no option if you have significany pre-existing health conditions.

 

Not much of a "insurance scheme for retirees". Incredibly badly designed  . 

[chilly07]

Has CM said they are requiring insurance retrospectively  on historic OAs? Haven't seen  a report to that effect?

If so they are wrong and clarification from CW sought.

Change to O seems the correct  response.

Comments  such as 'Get it or Get out' are singularily unhelpful to an 80 yr old

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

My understanding is the same of yours, i.e. that only new applicants for O-A visis will be requried to have medical insurance. If in doubt, the poster should check with Thai Immigration head officefirst,  then his local office to ensure they are aware of and following official policy.

The head office (or at least the only representatives of it the public can easily contact) is giving conflicting information. And what exactly would someone do if their local office was not following correct policy?

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Has CM said they are requiring insurance retrospectively  on historic OAs? Haven't seen  a report to that effect?

If so they are wrong and clarification from CW sought.

Change to O seems the correct  response.

Comments  such as 'Get it or Get out' are singularily unhelpful to an 80 yr old

Yes CM is saying (and doing) this. So is Jomtien and a number of other places.

 

How would clarification from CW solve the problem for someone not living in their jurisdiction?

 

If what you meant was have Imm HQ set the lical office straight, great idea but how does anyone make that happen?

[vivananahuahin]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

If the requirements for a retirement visa is health insurance and no health insurance company will insure then the OP will need to get a different visa which doesn't require it, meaning an Elite visa which will work best and give up to 6 years here. Alternatively the other option is to leave Thailand.

my dear it is not very helpful for an old man of 80 years old,try to understand and comfort him,not go out the country they are other terms.

[Thaidream]

51 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Being in what I assume to be a similar position to the OP except that I had an O visa and am 74.  If a decree appears requiring me to have insurance I will behave as I have advised him to behave.  Is it reasonable to expect someone of 80 to start scamming or leave the country and start over again in the same way as someone aged 55 might be expected to do? As consideration of his case moves further up the line of command it is bound to encounter someone with some compassion or desire for a quiet life.  He has more to gain by my way than he has by avoiding the issue

In general, I would agree that this is an approach that might work , However, IMO there are going to be hundreds ir not more who cannot get the insurance ,   Under the Malaysian retirement program - the Immigration rule waives the insurance requirement if a person cannot obtain the insurance- they don't tell the applicant to leave.

 

IMO- his choices- are to make the case directly with Immigration stating what can I do- I tried and they will not insure me and ask Immigration for assistance.

 

If this doesn't work- head out to the nearest  consulate and obtain an O Visa and come back and re-apply

 

Another choice is the agent route- while I have never advocated an agent when one is faced with having to abide by a rule which is impossible to meet- the agent system seems  justified.

 

Thai Immigration needs to come their senses- making a rule change  apply to everyone on PRIOR O-A extensions before the actual start date of the change is simply  bad judgement and incompetence.

[Expattaff1308]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes CM is saying (and doing) this. So is Jomtien and a number of other places.

 

How would clarification from CW solve the problem for someone not living in their jurisdiction?

 

If what you meant was have Imm HQ set the lical office straight, great idea but how does anyone make that happen?

We could try mailing our embassies to raise these very valid issues with the Thai Authorities they collectively maybe able to bring some pressure to bear to grandfather the OAs issued prior to  31 Oct or at least allow us to either use our own insurance companies or have the equivalent in a Bank account to cover eventualities.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[vivananahuahin]

Just now, Expattaff1308 said:

We could try mailing our embassies to raise these very vald issues with the Thai Authorities they collectively maybe able to bring some pressure to bear.

i have done 10 days ago and i know that the french and american embassy is very busy about these new rules,i have not yet receive an answer from my ambassador.

[Expattaff1308]

3 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

i have done 10 days ago and i know that the french and american embassy is very busy about these new rules,i have not yet receive an answer from my ambassador.

Same here with the British Embassy

[EricTh]

I think the easiest way is for you to apply for a new O visa and extend that based on retirement.

 

At least until the O visa loophole is closed in the future.

 

From what I read in this forum, not many people are willing to buy that expensive health insurance even if the company is willing to insure.

 

[EricTh]

3 hours ago, Davut said:

Oh dear,  can someone clarify this one please.

 

My understanding is that "health Insurance" is only needed for new O-A visa after 31 October 2019 to gain entry into Thailand.   And,   for those who are currently on "extensions" (and started with 0-A) health insurance is not required at this time?

This gentleman who is 80 yrs (sirwilly) has no chance of getting health insurance in Thailand from what I have read.

 

Perhaps Ubon Joe can clarify this one?

This has been discussed quite extensively. It is for both new and existing O-A visa.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Davut said:

Oh dear,  can someone clarify this one please.

 

My understanding is that "health Insurance" is only needed for new O-A visa after 31 October 2019 to gain entry into Thailand.   And,   for those who are currently on "extensions" (and started with 0-A) health insurance is not required at this time?

This gentleman who is 80 yrs (sirwilly) has no chance of getting health insurance in Thailand from what I have read.

 

 

There have been numerous reports here by people being told by CM Immigration, and other Immigration offices as well, that they're going to require insurance for people with retirement extensions at renewal time that date back to prior O-A visas, even ones from many years past.

 

[KKr]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

None of the "approved" insurers have policy that allows for this and Thai insurers tend not to think outside the box (to put it mildly). The only insurer on the immigration approved list that might possibly respond would be Pacific Cross. Nothing to lose by trying 

Indeed, and as an insurer, why not !

Get say 10.000 customers at say 200 $ each. Easy money .

[Thaidream]

US Embassy alerted by several of us.  From what I understand- the Embassies have or are meeting to disuss the situation.  Diplomatic Notes have been sent to the various Ministries  involved (Foreign Ministry/Ministry of Health)

 

Unfortunately, I see this as a lengthy process- on the Thai side. They have already committed to the Insurance situation for O-A Visas and extensions and i doubt they will change that.

 

However, they could grandfather everyone on an O-A prior to 31 October 2019 and save face by simply stating- That's what we meant in the first place, sorry you didn't inderstand what we  meant and quietly tell   Immigration to grandfather everyone 

[Kelsall]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes CM is saying (and doing) this. So is Jomtien and a number of other places.

 

How would clarification from CW solve the problem for someone not living in their jurisdiction?

 

If what you meant was have Imm HQ set the lical office straight, great idea but how does anyone make that happen?

Because in the past one of the experts has used CW as the gold standard for answers on this issue.

[mhortig]

You might be able to  get insurance from one of these companies. Most of them will not start a new policy for age 80, but one or two may. A friend of mine who is 80 said he found a company that would but very costly. Check them out at this link:https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa        

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by mhortig

[Expattaff1308]

10 minutes ago, mhortig said:

You might be able to  get insurance from one of these companies. Most of them will not start a new policy for age 80, but one or two may. Check them out at this link:https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

and have you seen the prices?? very expensive for very little cover, and if pre existing conditions an expensive worthless exercise to say the least, changes a 1900 baht extension into a 100,000 baht extension. Ive seached them all on the list many dont ensure over 65 those who do vary from 70-90,000 and some insist on a complete medical costing a further 7-10,000 where they will refund a % of the cost if accepted. I'm 66 and can get the accepted cover for 40,000 but not with one of the approved companies who wants between 70-90k for exactly the same cover (OPD 400k / IPD 40k) 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[bbi1]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is possible though not yet known that a visa agent might, through their ability to access higher level IOs with discretionary power , be able to get extension without one of the approved insurance policies (which an 80 year old any way cannot get).  Maybe because a more senior officer would understad it is not really required, or maybe because senior officer would waive the requirement. 

 

Potential problem I see with this approach is it might lock you into having to use agent every year and if there were ever a crack down on use of agents you might then be in a fix.

Of course all this is done by paying a Visa Agent a large amount of money which is used for bribes to IO to get things done, which we all know is the only reason anyone ever needs to use an Agent.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

imo at 80 yrs old I would not be using an 'agent' to try and bribe an IO ( truthfully that would be the only 'function' of an 'agent' in this case). Giving people advice to break the law (facilitation to corruption) is both irresponsible and idiotic. As other posters have suggested go the elite or the o visa route.

Exactly! Someone who's at a retirement age should be mature enough not to go around bribing people to stay in the country.

[Sheryl]

18 minutes ago, mhortig said:

You might be able to  get insurance from one of these companies. Most of them will not start a new policy for age 80, but one or two may. A friend of mine who is 80 said he found a company that would but very costly. Check them out at this link:https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa        

 

 

The unavailability of insurance  at his age from any of these companies has already been explained. Please see the charts showing all details in links already given.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Well, the simple solution is to allow a "self-insurance" provision. Yes, a dedicated THB 400k in the bank.

 

There is a specific problem with making a requirement of purchasing something that does not exist (either by age or pre-existing conditions) there are many persons who will not be insured.

 

This specific issue must be addressed and a viable solution established. 

 

Problem is it will take time to implement the solution and for those impacted there is no "simple" solution today. 

 

Good luck to all. This issue will be resolved - it is the "when" that is the real problem. 

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

I have thought what would I do if I was 80 and needed to/wanted to stay in the Kingdom?  If I had the 800K Baht in the bank I would consider the most drastic option:  Get a 5 year Elite Visa with 500K of the 800K.  I know the cost is steep but drastic times might require a drastic decision.  No Health Insurance Requirement for the Elite Visa(at least not yet?).  

Exactly. Get an Elite Visa and have 6 years here, or find another country to live in or go back to their home country. Previously a few retirement visa people were happy gloating that an Elite visa isn't any more than a retirement visa and were even ramming it down the throats of SETV/METV users on this forum. Elite seems a good option now as an option.

[Max69xl]

31 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I think the easiest way is for you to apply for a new O visa and extend that based on retirement.

 

At least until the O visa loophole is closed in the future.

 

From what I read in this forum, not many people are willing to buy that expensive health insurance even if the company is willing to insure.

 

Why is the O Visa a loophole? It's another Visa with other requirements. 

[bbi1]

55 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

my dear it is not very helpful for an old man of 80 years old,try to understand and comfort him,not go out the country they are other terms.

Other terms like what I mentioned in the post you quoted me on, which was get an Elite Visa and get 6 more years here.

[Sheryl]

56 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

my dear it is not very helpful for an old man of 80 years old,try to understand and comfort him,not go out the country they are other terms.

 

Actually other than using an Agent I don't think there is anything he can do that would not require first leaving the country.

 

Unless his extension deadline is some time from now and CM Imm practices  change by then.

[vivananahuahin]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually other than using an Agent I don't think there is anything he can do that would not require first leaving the country.

 

Unless his extension deadline is some time from now and CM Imm practices  change by then.

Yes and first we don't know when he will go to renew his extension,may be next year februari,march,April,in this time under pressure from embassies and without loose the face they will grandfather these "pilot project" for the OA before 31/10/2019,if he need do now,wait until the last day and go to Laos to begin a new visa Non O and if married it will be very easier.

[Max69xl]

14 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Of course all this is done by paying a Visa Agent a large amount of money which is used for bribes to IO to get things done, which we all know is the only reason anyone ever needs to use an Agent.

As usual you don't know what you're talking about. You can use an agent for trivial stuff just because your lazy or haven't got a clue how to do something at immigration, talking care of everything from simple 90 days reports to extension applications, help with applying for a drivers license. Even help with opening a bank account. These things I mentioned are not very expensive. To get a Visa when not meeting the financial requirements cost more of course.