Over 80 on OA Extensions for 14 years. Chiang Mai.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts reported and removed.

 

[Huckenfell]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Your point is well made.  The reason these long term policies are so high is that the pool is based on the ages 50-75 and they need to be based on 0-100 and disregard Outpatient costs.  Do this and the costs become more reasonable .

 

In addition- if insurance is mandaotry it has to be provided to everyone- it has to be devoid of pre existing conditions and it has to apply to the entire population

 

Another solution is to simply allow anyone on a one year extension to buy into the Thai Social Security system which provides universal coverage.  Tourists are not part of this but can be prought into the system by a surcharge on their  ticket to Thailand of say 500 Baht with a co-payment of 1000 baht to weed out the frivoulous.

 

There are so may things that can be done to give everyone universal coverage at affordable rates but so far the powers that be seem to want to do it  in a way that is neither fair just or even workable,

Possibly the most sensible and common sense post yet.

[KKr]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Another solution is to simply allow anyone on a one year extension to buy into the Thai Social Security system which provides universal coverage.  Tourists are not part of this but can be prought into the system by a surcharge on their  ticket to Thailand of say 500 Baht with a co-payment of 1000 baht to weed out the frivoulous

indeed, to weed out those that travel to Thailand after being diagnosed with something expensive, to get a not so expensive treatment here, is a large issue. 
Those on one-year extensions with demonstrable investment and family, maybe after a waiting period of 3 or five years, imho, are fair candidates for Thai Government Medical Coverage.

[Expattaff1308]

5 hours ago, EricTh said:

Did you not read the reason for introducing health insurance for the elderly in the first place?

 

If every retiree changes to O Visa, then what's the use of introducing the laws in the first place.

The point I think is whatever Visa you come in on once expired and we move onto Extensions of stay we are all in the same boat...income cash in bank etc so why pick on OA extensions.

I understand the OA Visa from home country as you can get 2 years in the kingdom before showing funds here, after that its all extension and all have to show cash of some kind

[berybert]

8 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Other terms like what I mentioned in the post you quoted me on, which was get an Elite Visa and get 6 more years here.

So if you have an elite visa does that mean you wont have any health issues ?

No chance they will ask within the next 6 years for elite visa holders to have insurance too ?

Genuine question as I am thinking about getting one.

You seem pretty sure it's the way to go.

[Toadie]

Impossible situation with insurance.

 

Understand the need for it without a doubt. Don't know any countries that don't require it.

 

To start a new policy when already old premiums are always going to have to be high. You pay throughout your life. Unless an international insurance can transfer policies between countries. Totally different numbers for them. They are meant to make money.

 

If it ever gets to a stage were insurance is being ticked off under the table that is just massive trouble. May well be a big part of not requiring all to have insurance. It would be blood bath legally. In hospital, dodgy insurance?

 

Somebody would know the rough numbers of how many under the table visas there are. It's not just one or two, fix em up during lunch.

[WhatupThailand]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Your point is well made.  The reason these long term policies are so high is that the pool is based on the ages 50-75 and they need to be based on 0-100 and disregard Outpatient costs.  Do this and the costs become more reasonable .

 

In addition- if insurance is mandaotry it has to be provided to everyone- it has to be devoid of pre existing conditions and it has to apply to the entire population

 

Another solution is to simply allow anyone on a one year extension to buy into the Thai Social Security system which provides universal coverage.  Tourists are not part of this but can be prought into the system by a surcharge on their  ticket to Thailand of say 500 Baht with a co-payment of 1000 baht to weed out the frivoulous.

 

There are so may things that can be done to give everyone universal coverage at affordable rates but so far the powers that be seem to want to do it  in a way that is neither fair just or even workable,

Why can't Bureaucrats ever see the simple solution, like adding all over 50 to the Thai Social Security system.

Sure they won't get a new watch, but would be a Real solution to the problem.

[farangchuma]

Only sensible solution is to go for a HSA account coupled with a catastrophic insurance. A deposit of atleast 50K in an HSA account with an out of pocket expense of at least 50K and a catastrophic insurance of at least one million. No outpatient BS.  Leave to patients if they want to go to government hospital or Bangramung. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by farangchuma

[gk10002000]

I thought it was still uncertain if OA extensions will require insurance and just new OA visas require insurance before they even issue the initial visa.

[CH1961]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The we may not get a quick resolution

May a native English speaker explain this, please. 

[Langsuan Man]

Here is my nightmare scenario on the reliability of this sham insurance

 

I get sick, go to the hospital, my Thai insurance company decides that the problem is a pre-existing, un-diagnosed condition and they won't cover me, but my home country insurance company that covers everything but won't help, because I have another insurance company in Thailand  

 

What do you do then ? 

[sunnyboy2018]

20 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Wait for Immigration to raise the subject, they probably won’t.  If they do tell them that you tried but can’t get insured because of your age. Leave it there, do not try to convince them of anything. If you do not get an extension you could ask what you should do, you are in their hands. I can not see that after fourteen years and money in the bank that any one will push the issue because there is no practical reason to prevent you extending your visa. I expect that you have always found that if you don’t upset them or allow them to paint themselves into a corner, Thai people can be very accommodating and understanding and the older you are the better. 

Your last paragraph regarding Thais being helpful is usually true. Good advice. The OP might consult an agent. My agent is also an insurance agent.

 

[sunnyboy2018]

22 minutes ago, CH1961 said:

May a native English speaker explain this, please. 

Think not The

[lopburi3]

37 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

but my home country insurance company that covers everything but won't help, because I have another insurance company in Thailand  

 

What do you do then ? 

Believe that is just a delay but still be a valid claim to your home country insurance (as long as they cover you overseas) - you file and get denied and then file again with you home country insurance with the local denial.  

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The point I think is whatever Visa you come in on once expired and we move onto Extensions of stay we are all in the same boat...income cash in bank etc so why pick on OA extensions.

I understand the OA Visa from home country as you can get 2 years in the kingdom before showing funds here, after that its all extension and all have to show cash of some kind

 

I think it's the first 2 years that those people with OA extensions who didn't need to put any money into Thai banks that's the problem. During this time, if there are unpaid medical fees, the Thai hospitals have to bear the costs.

 

For O extension, you need to put money into Thai banks for the first extension so it's safer for the Thai government. At least after the embassies stopped issuing income letters (which many are fake declarations)

 

From what I see the Thai government is closing the loopholes one by one from freeloaders.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by EricTh

[Langsuan Man]

59 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe that is just a delay but still be a valid claim to your home country insurance (as long as they cover you overseas) - you file and get denied and then file again with you home country insurance with the local denial.  

So you are tacitly admitting that the Thai insurance is worthless and I am going to have to pay first and then hope for reimbursement. 

 

That is not really how insurance is suppose to work.  That was the purpose of X amount of funds in a Thai bank or proof of funds in a foreign bank 

[Momofarang]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

Here is my nightmare scenario on the reliability of this sham insurance

 

I get sick, go to the hospital, my Thai insurance company decides that the problem is a pre-existing, un-diagnosed condition and they won't cover me, but my home country insurance company that covers everything but won't help, because I have another insurance company in Thailand  

 

What do you do then ? 

The idea would be never to use the Thai insurance. Get the cheapest and never claim.

[ThaiBob]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

People should do the tiniest bit of cursory research.. Its crystal clear. 

And once again, the omission of the critical "effective October 31, 2019". At Jomtien the sign reads "after October 31" which could easily be interpreted as new applicants only or old non O-A's are grandfathered. 

 

[gunderhill]

21 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

As other posters have suggested go the elite or the o visa route.

And wait for them to add  that to your brand new 5-10- 20  year payment, their terms, they can add or remove anything they want at Thai  Elite  Visa.

[gunderhill]

19 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Elite seems a good option now as an option.

It doesn't  to me as in  their  terms  they can add anything at anytime they want, ie next year they want the insurance to, they are  compelled  to do this  by immigration. So you  just spend 1  million and then WHAM, now  we  want insurance as  well, and your'e 80 so  bye  bye 1  million.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

So you are tacitly admitting that the Thai insurance is worthless and I am going to have to pay first and then hope for reimbursement.

I am not saying anything of the kind - I was responding to your post.  If you have foreign insurance that covers you it should still cover you if this insurance did not pay was my observation.

 

As for myself have foreign insurance with no limit so firmly believe such should not only be allowed but welcomed.

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, CH1961 said:

May a native English speaker explain this, please. 

That's what a poster wrote,and I said I didn't understand what he meant. 

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

I am retired here and using the O-A which cannot be obtained here in Thailand, but in my country of origin (Australia). In the past i have gone back every 2 years to renew, but my last extension expires in October 2020. Then it seems that my option will be to revert to the O visa which i abandoned several years ago in favour of the O-A.  Then i will be wasting money every 90 days which could have been spent in Thailand. How stupid is this on behalf of immigration. A case of 'cutting off ones nose to spite ones face'

Why waste money every 90 days?

If you change to a 90 days Non-Immigrant O when your O-A has expired, you can after 60 days extend it 1 year at the local immigration office. After that you can extend it annualy. 

[jacko45k]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:28 PM, Sheryl said:

Potential problem I see with this approach is it might lock you into having to use agent every year and if there were ever a crack down on use of agents you might then be in a fix.

And maybe the other potential problem of going into hospital and not being able to pay and not having what is 'obligated' insurance.  Could a hospital indeed make some complaint.

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

And once again, the omission of the critical "effective October 31, 2019". At Jomtien the sign reads "after October 31" which could easily be interpreted as new applicants only or old non O-A's are grandfathered. 

 

But they are not.. Effective 31st Oct, the following requirements apply... 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

And maybe the other potential problem of going into hospital and not being able to pay and not having what is 'obligated' insurance.  Could a hospital indeed make some complaint.

 

Hospitals have been making complaints, vociferously and this is how the whole mess started. Vachira in Phuket especially.

 

All sorts of problems if you do not have solid insurance and can't pay your hospital  bill, and that will most definitely include people who have Immigration-approved policies as many of them will not be able to pay their bills or not be able to pay them in full. This poorly designed "system"will in no way solve the problem and may even worsen it by lulling people into false  complacency . New arrivals in particular might understandably believe (1) that the government mandated 400/40 level is adequate protection in Thailand and (2) that the approved policies will reliably pay all claims. Neither is at all the case. 400k is way too low (and the 40k unnecessary) and it is very common for local companies to decide after a policy has been issued and a claim filed that it is related to a pre-existing condition and deny it even if the policy document does not specify such an exclusion. 

 

Unfortunately the Immigration insurance requirement is one issue and being adequately insured or otherwise able to pay one's bill is an altogether different one.

 

However I think we were discussing someone who was genuinely, adequately insured...just not holding an Immigration approved policy.  Lots of people in that category including people with Thai Social Security, ex US military with Tricare, and people with good international policies. 

 

I see nothing whatsoever wrong with a senior Thai immigration official using his discretionary power to waive the local insurance policy requirement for someone who has SS, or Tricare, or a foreign insurance policy and is thus not at risk of being unable to pay their medical costs. Or for that matter someone who can show say several million baht in the bank set aside for medical costs.   Unfortunately though the only way most of us have of getting our case and file presented to someone that senior would be through an agent.

 

 

[jacko45k]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unfortunately though the only way most of us have of getting our case and file presented to someone that senior would be through an agent.

I cynically believe that most would be going to an agent attempting to bypass the insurance requirement, because they haven't got any! 

[Langkawee]

7 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

So you are tacitly admitting that the Thai insurance is worthless and I am going to have to pay first and then hope for reimbursement. 

 

That is not really how insurance is suppose to work.  That was the purpose of X amount of funds in a Thai bank or proof of funds in a foreign bank 

Read the volumes of posts by farang and Thai how they try to keep you in the hospital for the longest time with substandard or wrong drugs. Go to Malaysia or go to Boots 555

[Sheryl]

26 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I cynically believe that most would be going to an agent attempting to bypass the insurance requirement, because they haven't got any! 

 

You don't think people who are insured, would want to bypass the requirement to buy an unncessary second policy? I should think they all would. And their numbers aren't small if prior TV polls are to be believed.

 

 

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

Read the volumes of posts by farang and Thai how they try to keep you in the hospital for the longest time with substandard or wrong drugs. Go to Malaysia or go to Boots 555

When to see my government hospital doctor last Monday (appointment every 3 months).

2 and half hours from start to finish cost 280bht, 50bht foreigner fee + 230bht for 3 months of meds.

Not that the insurance would have paid it, even if I'd had any.

 

No complaints about the drugs, they work better than Google says they should.

Edited November 21, 2019 by BritManToo