Over 80 on OA Extensions for 14 years. Chiang Mai.

[moe666]

On 11/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, possum1931 said:

Your last sentence, Thai people in general yes, but the Thai government or immigration???????

I have seen immigration help out older retirees, the paper work disappeared for a bit and the stamped passport came back. 

[UncleMhee]

8 hours ago, EricTh said:

I think it's the first 2 years that those people with OA extensions who didn't need to put any money into Thai banks that's the problem. During this time, if there are unpaid medical fees, the Thai hospitals have to bear the costs.

Yes you are correct. That is the situation.

However as insurance is now required on all new A-O's; if allowed to use insurance sourced from their home country for the full 2 year period of visa.......issue solved. Many here seem to think they're hard done by having to have the money in the bank here. Hey.....your visa, your rules, your choice.

To get an O-A every two years we must have the same financials; plus with allowed mandatory insurance from home we'd be covered better than uninsured O visa holders who aren't required to have it; and many won't.....going on the numbers talking about changing because of the requirement. Lay off the O-A bashing eh!

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

You don't think people who are insured, would want to bypass the requirement to buy an unncessary second policy? I should think they all would. And their numbers aren't small if prior TV polls are to be believed.

 

 

I said 'most'. If people use an agent already, OK a further step. And yes, if an agent can and is prepared to 'fake' or bypass the requirement, it will likely be cheaper than useless insurance. There will also be quite a number unable to get insurance who have little choice if it ever becomes obligatory for all. 

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

When to see my government hospital doctor last Monday (appointment every 3 months).

2 and half hours from start to finish cost 280bht, 50bht foreigner fee + 230bht for 3 months of meds.

Not that the insurance would have paid it, even if I'd had any.

 

No complaints about the drugs, they work better than Google says they should.

The 50 baht is not a "foreigner fee". It is the standard comsultation fee for anyone, Thai or foreign, who has to pay full fee i.e. is not covered at that hodpital by SS or the universal ("gold card" or "30 baht") scheme

 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The 50 baht is not a "foreigner fee". It is the standard comsultation fee for anyone, Thai or foreign, who has to pay full fee i.e. is not covered at that hodpital by SS or the universal ("gold card" or "30 baht") scheme

 

You're probably right.

"Outpatient service fees during office hours (55020)" is what it says in Thai.

Edited November 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[Momofarang]

22 hours ago, gunderhill said:

It doesn't  to me as in  their  terms  they can add anything at anytime they want, ie next year they want the insurance to, they are  compelled  to do this  by immigration. So you  just spend 1  million and then WHAM, now  we  want insurance as  well, and your'e 80 so  bye  bye 1  million.

Yep, absolutely.

 

I have a non-OA with 5 subsequent marriage extensions and spend over 200k a year to insure myself and my family. 

 

Now I am leaning more and more towards a two steps strategy: convert to non-O next year. And try to squeeze, with my pre-existing conditions, into the cheapest Pacific Cross health plan, which I'll never use. All in all it is going to cost me one percent of income over the next 10 years and give me better peace of mind than Thailand Elite.

[tgeezer]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

When to see my government hospital doctor last Monday (appointment every 3 months).

2 and half hours from start to finish cost 280bht, 50bht foreigner fee + 230bht for 3 months of meds.

Not that the insurance would have paid it, even if I'd had any.

 

No complaints about the drugs, they work better than Google says they should.

Am I to understand that we are able to use government hospitals? In that case I don’t see what the fuss is about. How does one recognise a government hospital? 

[lopburi3]

20 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Am I to understand that we are able to use government hospitals? In that case I don’t see what the fuss is about. How does one recognise a government hospital? 

Government hospitals are not free - payment is required by foreigners or Thai if not registered to use that specific hospital (or officially transferred there).  Costs are not high but can mount up and for imported materials or tests using such equipment can be almost as much as a private hospital.  As for finding them just look up on Google or ask someone - remember the lower levels are not much more than first aid stations but for that they can be good.  Registration at most will require some knowledge of Thai or help of a Thai speaker.

[tgeezer]

Thanks for that, costs are more likely to be based on need in a government hospital so more acceptable to me.  I live with Thai people in a Thai ish way so If I get ill it will be out of my hands but nice to be informed. 

[Mango Bob]

Has anyone wrote to one of the English Language or Thai newspaper about the problem here with Immigrations and how it affects those who are too old for insurance or disqualified by the insurance companies. Or about how they screwed those who been here before 31/10/19.

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Yep, absolutely.

 

I have a non-OA with 5 subsequent marriage extensions and spend over 200k a year to insure myself and my family. 

 

Now I am leaning more and more towards a two steps strategy: convert to non-O next year. And try to squeeze, with my pre-existing conditions, into the cheapest Pacific Cross health plan, which I'll never use. All in all it is going to cost me one percent of income over the next 10 years and give me better peace of mind than Thailand Elite.

Don't plan based on maybes. Firstly an insurance requirement has only been attached to O-A Retirement Extensions, no confirmation that a marriage Ext requires approved insurance. Secondly, no insurance requirement if you do change to a Non-Imm-O, so why not keep the policy you have invested in?

[Johnthplumb]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:49 AM, bbi1 said:

What does a visa agent have to do with needing the required health insurance?

I am sure the agents are working on that one, no doubt behind closed doors.

[bbi1]

9 hours ago, Johnthplumb said:

I am sure the agents are working on that one, no doubt behind closed doors.

You mean working on how to bribe some immigration officers for their clients who don't have health insurance without them all getting in trouble.

[lamyai3]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:37 AM, Mango Bob said:

Has anyone wrote to one of the English Language or Thai newspaper about the problem here with Immigrations and how it affects those who are too old for insurance or disqualified by the insurance companies. Or about how they screwed those who been here before 31/10/19.

There's been letters on the subject in the BP the past two days. The issue does seem to be gaining momentum. 

[nok_dan2000]

Read here on Page 47

 

3. In case of applicants who have a high health risk so cannot purchase the insurance but allowed to apply the visa, the Immigration Bureau should set the additional conditions (e.g. the provision of the larger amount of deposit)
Reason: The foreign elderly have the adequate amount of money for medical free and other

 

http://www.hss.moph.go.th/fileupload_doc/2019-10-18-1-19-50192312.pdf

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by nok_dan2000

[florida john]

there are 1 or 2 agencies that will insure you, but the price is unbelievable.

if you cannot return to your home country then you can try this.

exit and go to lao or Cambodia, plan to spend a week or two.

then go the thai embassy and apply for a NON O   yes you've heard this already, but they have already removed the "retirement" category 

for NON O. maybe it will work anyway. or if youre desperate, marriage NON O or Volunteer NON O or find a thai family that will take youin and apply for a living with a thai family NON O.

there are many NON O categories. NON O does not require insurance but probably soon will.   So if youre not one of the pedos, good luck.

[Peter Denis]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:18 AM, Sheryl said:

I am in touch with people in the insurance sector here and trying to persuade them to develop 2  products which would pretty much plug the holes in the current system. One is designed for people who already hold a foreign policy, the other is basically an insurer-overseen self-insurance scheme through locked debit cards. As both would entail very little exposure for the insurer should be possoble to provide irrespective of age or pre-existing cobditions.

 

But getting local insurers to understand and consider such novel approaches it is an uphill struggle.

 

Maybe it will get easier as they discover (1) that many of their potential clients are otherwise uninsurable and (2) that their conventional approach is not what foreign retirees want.

 

Or maybe not...after all even rudimentary market research should already have told them that.

Very grateful that you are doing this!

I think it is worth a new thread - instead of being hidden in the present one - once the insurer you are talking to, is serious about developing a rudimentary framework for the 2 envisioned new insurance products.

[EbhB]

On 11/20/2019 at 10:52 AM, tgeezer said:

Wait for Immigration to raise the subject, they probably won’t.  If they do tell them that you tried but can’t get insured because of your age. Leave it there, do not try to convince them of anything. If you do not get an extension you could ask what you should do, you are in their hands. I can not see that after fourteen years and money in the bank that any one will push the issue because there is no practical reason to prevent you extending your visa. I expect that you have always found that if you don’t upset them or allow them to paint themselves into a corner, Thai people can be very accommodating and understanding and the older you are the better. 

Second this, especially if you speak good thai & is well liked by immigration ????

Age still gains respect here, and especially if behaving in a very calm & polite way. Maybe you even know someone local that can back you up if need be?

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Very grateful that you are doing this!

I think it is worth a new thread - instead of being hidden in the present one - once the insurer you are talking to, is serious about developing a rudimentary framework for the 2 envisioned new insurance products.

Unfortunately I have so far had no luck.

 

Getting insurance companies here to think even slightly outside the box is virtually impossible.

[Momofarang]

6 hours ago, nok_dan2000 said:

Read here on Page 47

 

3. In case of applicants who have a high health risk so cannot purchase the insurance but allowed to apply the visa, the Immigration Bureau should set the additional conditions (e.g. the provision of the larger amount of deposit)
Reason: The foreign elderly have the adequate amount of money for medical free and other

 

http://www.hss.moph.go.th/fileupload_doc/2019-10-18-1-19-50192312.pdf

 

It is page 41. What transpires here is that the Moh anticipated our two problems i.e existing covers and high risk applicants, but Immigration has been two dumb and lazy to implement anything sensible.

[nok_dan2000]

Sorry it is page 43 (not 47)

 

3. In case of applicants who have a high health risk so cannot purchase the insurance but allowed to apply the visa, the Immigration Bureau should set the additional conditions (e.g. the provision of the larger amount of deposit)
Reason: The foreign elderly have the adequate amount of money for medical free and other

 

http://www.hss.moph.go.th/fileupload_doc/2019-10-18-1-19-50192312.pdf

[Expattaff1308]

10 minutes ago, nok_dan2000 said:

Sorry it is page 43 (not 47)

 

3. In case of applicants who have a high health risk so cannot purchase the insurance but allowed to apply the visa, the Immigration Bureau should set the additional conditions (e.g. the provision of the larger amount of deposit)
Reason: The foreign elderly have the adequate amount of money for medical free and other

 

http://www.hss.moph.go.th/fileupload_doc/2019-10-18-1-19-50192312.pdf

When Insurance was first being spoken about this is what they said would happen, that a deposit of around 440k which would give similar cover to that being offered by the Ins companies, so that those who was unable through age, cost or pre conditions would have the required cover.

But it seems somewhere between preparation and implementation it got lost along the way.

[Pilotman]

seriously consider a move to the Philippines. or other neighbouring country that do not currently have that requirement.  That would be my eventual back up plan. 

[Kenny202]

Guys been off the air for a while and trolled through the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread and no more the wiser.

 

Last I heard medical insurance was only required for new applicants for an O/A visa. 

I obtained my O/A visa in 2014 when I first came here. After the first year on O/A visa I did extensions based on retirement and last 2 years parental extensions based on having a child here. I am 56yo.

I have been continually told on this forum that my O/A visa was dead and expired long ago, you are on extensions.

 

I think someone else asked the question early on in the thread and I'll ask it again.

 

Does someone on yearly extensions of a long expired O/A visa need to have medical insurance when reapplying?

Does it only apply to retirees or all people over 50 previously on an O/A extension extending their visa for any reason?

 

If everyone over needs medical insurance now surely this is a huge game changer. Would be impossible to actually plan retirement here as at a certain age you will either not qualify for it or it will be a ridiculous cost.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

16 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Does someone on yearly extensions of a long expired O/A visa need to have medical insurance when reapplying?

Does it only apply to retirees or all people over 50 previously on an O/A extension extending their visa for any reason?

The mandatory thai health-insurance requirement is ONLY for holders of an OA Visa applying for an extension of stay based on RETIREMENT.

When your application for extension of an original OA Visa is based on MARRIAGE or other reason, then the health-insurance requirement is not applicable.

[dcnx]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:04 AM, Max69xl said:

They are still people and the OP is 80 years old. 

Means nothing to many immigration officers. 

[dcnx]

On 11/29/2019 at 9:06 AM, bbi1 said:

You mean working on how to bribe some immigration officers for their clients who don't have health insurance without them all getting in trouble.

As shady as that sounds to you, a foreigner, that’s called “business“ in Thailand and it’s not out of the ordinary. It’s how they do things.

[LivinLOS]

31 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The mandatory thai health-insurance requirement is ONLY for holders of an OA Visa applying for an extension of stay based on RETIREMENT.

When your application for extension of an original OA Visa is based on MARRIAGE or other reason, then the health-insurance requirement is not applicable.

Jury still out I think.. 

 

In theory the above holds true.. 

[Thaidream]

20 hours ago, Momofarang said:

It is page 41. What transpires here is that the Moh anticipated our two problems i.e existing covers and high risk applicants, but Immigration has been two dumb and lazy to implement anything sensible

Quite an interesting read- both  the hot issues were mentioned

 

1.  The  Ministry noted the impossibility of some long stayers not being able to get insurance-  their solution was for Immigration to make a provision for  monies in the bank.

 

IMO- Immigration has actually done this by requiring that 400K stay in the bank  when applying for any retirment Visa using the bank method- what they have neglected to do is  waive the insuance requirement  for anyone not able to get insurance and  indicate the 400K in the bank  satisfies the requirement of the waiver. 

 

2.  The doucment mentions that the Ministry is aware that  the insurance regulation may impact O-A holders who received the Visa/extensions prior to  the new regulation- but they passed the handling of this situation back to the Thai cabinet.  T0 date- they have done nothing that we know about. (Thai Cabinet).  IMO- why would they- the implementation is not a cabinet level issue- it is more of a Minstry of Foreign Affairs issue or Immigrantion Bureau issue.

 

IMO- since the Embassies are sending Diplomatic Notes to the Thai Governemnt- someone is aware of the issue annd someone needs to make a decision.  IMO- the current police order can and is being interpreted in ways which support granfathering.  When  a prior O-A Holder enters the Airport- they are being stamped in for 12 months.

 

However, when they go for an extension- it seems to be denied for no insurance. Totally illogical in my mind- either there is grandfathering or not/

 

To clear this up , it appears someone either in the Thai cabinet needs to address the issue or the Immigration Head needs to make the decision.

 

IMO- only bad media  on the issue or  more pushing from the Embassies will bring it to a head.  In the meantime- chaos will continue  for all expats on an O-A.

 

Thanks for posting the docucment- well done!!

 

[GeorgeCross]

what they seem to be doing is moving the unwilling or uninsurable over to non-o visas rather that implement other measures in the rules. a pseudo grandfathering scheme if you will, seemingly backed by the advices of IOs up and down the country.

 

maybe we should just go with it? after all they could have been real a-holes and plugged that gap.

 

reminds me of how they continue to leave open an obvious 'gap' for those with wives who have fallen on hard times or do not wish to tie up their funds, the multi non-o

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by GeorgeCross